[Peace] [Peace-discuss] What we're up against

Sat Dec 16 17:27:03 UTC 2017

I agree with your characterization of Trump, fully. He is incoherent, inept, and ignorant, even to those who have interviewed him with the intent of showing him to be less so. That anyone would put faith, or hope, in whatever he says is e extremely foolish. A very dangerous dilemma for the nation, and the world.
Thanks.  mkb

On Dec 16, 2017, at 4:17 AM, John W. via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 3:41 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Did it ever occur to you that Trump might have been LYING when he criticized "neolib and neocon policies" in order to stoke voter anger and gain votes, just like he lied about draining the swamp, respecting women, not hurting Medicare and Social Security, providing "terrific" health care for everyone, and too many other subjects to mention?

Deb

Sent from my iPhone

Even the term "lying" seems too rational or calculated or sophisticated, somehow, to describe tRump.  You can't THEORIZE about tRump in anything like the normal way.  I would simply say that tRump is so far gone that his words bear absolutely no relation to his actions or intentions, which are impulsive and childish and motivated solely by insecurity and narcissism, certainly not by any coherent ideology.  His words are never to be believed or trusted, to a far greater degree even than the average politician.  They are simply to be ignored, and his actions observed and noted as the actions of a madman.  He's a dangerous child with the nuclear codes.

John Wason

On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:41 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu<mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

The Democrat party supports neoconservative policies (more war) abroad, and neoliberal policies (more inequality) at home. Jones is an apparatchik of that party. The people of Alabama need to educate him on their real needs - viz., an end to 40 years of accelerating immiseration, under Democrat as well as Republican administrations. Their remarkably quiescent suffering finally elected a president who criticized neolib and neocon policies (who was then under intense pressure to continue those policies). Time-servers like Jones probably won’t be able to put the populist genie back in the bottle. We shouldn’t help them.

Here’s what we’re dealing with, along with the vicious military policies of the Obama-Clinton administration to “maintain the disparity” with the rest of the world: <https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/dec/14/inequality-is-not-inevitable-but-the-us-experiment-is-a-recipe-for-divergence>.

All the political establishment (very much including the Democrats) has to offer is disingenuous 'anti-Trumpism’: <https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/anti-trumpism-is-anti-progressivism-in-disguise-9e688e6152e9>.

Americans are coming to understand that they can do better than that, but rather clearly not with Democrats. —CGE

On Dec 14, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Right you are, Karen. Doug Jones has a decades-long record of public service. Getting elected in AL was step 1. Now he needs to truly represent (and educate) the people of AL, those who elected him and those who opposed him, in a principled and fair manner. It was the Democratic grassroots who first embraced Jones--the Democratic leadership hung back and only offered support when it looked like he might win.

As we at PDA say, we have to drag the Democratic Party kicking and screaming toward more progressive policies. It is a long journey, full of setbacks, but we keep trying. Doug Jones offers an opportunity--we would be foolish not to take advantage of it.

Deb
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2017, at 12:11 PM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Exactly: As a “Green socialist” I may not support the Democrat Party, but given evil of Mr. Moore, and the Republican Party, especially their record of impoverishment of the people in Alabama. It’s time for a change, Democrat candidate Doug Jones, has an opportunity to do something for that state and his constituents, lets see if he is up to the task. As I have said previously, he prosecuted the KKK successfully in the 70’s for the crimes they committed in the sixties, that everyone else allowed them to walk free.

According to JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Doug Jones’ victory marks the first time in 25 years that a Democrat has won a U.S. Senate race in Alabama. Tuesday’s special election was highly controversial, pitting Doug Jones against Roy Moore, an accused pedophile with a long history of racism, sexism, homophobia and Islamophobia.
AMY GOODMAN: Tuesday’s vote was highly divided by race and gender, with African-American voters, particularly women, largely responsible for defeating Roy Moore. Overall, 96 percent of African-American voters voted for Doug Jones, with a staggering 98 percent of all black women voting for Jones. In contrast, nearly 70 percent of white voters voted for Roy Moore. A full 63 percent of white women voted for Moore, despite Moore being accused by multiple women of sexually harassing or assaulting them when they were teenagers, one as young as 14. Democratic strategist Symone Sanders, who served as Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders’ press secretary during his presidential campaign, said, quote, “Doug Jones would not have won today without the turnout we saw from African-American voters. … Black women have been absolutely clear in their support for Democratic policies and Democratic candidates. It’s high time for Democrats to invest in that effort,” unquote.

On Dec 14, 2017, at 09:15, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com<mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:

Karen
I agree with you. It is definitely a victory to elect a moderate Democrat who is a decent man and citizen over a lecherous, bigoted Republican who totally disrespects the rule of law.
Deb

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:35 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

In the case of Alabama, it sure as hell is. A state with such extreme poverty, that the UN compared conditions in Alabama to that of many nations in sub saharan African villages.

On Dec 14, 2017, at 06:58, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/dec/14/inequality-is-not-inevitable-but-the-us-experiment-is-a-recipe-for-divergence<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Finequality%2F2017%2Fdec%2F14%2Finequality-is-not-inevitable-but-the-us-experiment-is-a-recipe-for-divergence&data=02%7C01%7C%7Caeb766a77e2f47b2a68208d543033b1f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636488603511217150&sdata=5nGgMqjZ9MibNWwTeDXlb%2BrBmZXxlBL15uUN0sMBXTI%3D&reserved=0>

It’s not a victory to elect Democrats instead of Republicans.

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.” [Chomsky]
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