[Peace] [sf-core] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria

Wed Jan 4 20:19:58 UTC 2017

Belden—

Certainly it’s right to ‘criticize both sides.’ I assume you would have done so on September 1, 1939, as well.

(Those who are tempted not to, should see Nicholson Baker’s  “Human Smoke.”)

But we’re citizens of only one side and (presumably) can affect what that side does: the war in Syria exists because Obama armed jihadists.

Surely we should be calling (as AWARE does) for the withdrawal of all US troops, weapons, and bases from MENA.  Do you agree?  

The poets often get there first:

"...As the clever hopes expire
Of a low dishonest decade
Waves of anger and fear
Circulate over the bright 
And darkened lands of the earth,
Obsessing our private lives....

"I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return. 

"Exiled Thucydides knew
All that a speech can say
About Democracy,
And what dictators do,
The elderly rubbish they talk
To an apathetic grave;
Analysed all in his book,
The enlightenment driven away,
The habit-forming pain,
Mismanagement and grief:
We must suffer them all again.

"Into this neutral air
Where blind skyscrapers use
Their full height to proclaim
The strength of Collective Man,
Each language pours its vain
Competitive excuse:
But who can live for long
In an euphoric dream;
Out of the mirror they stare,
Imperialism’s face
And the international wrong...

"All I have is a voice
To undo the folded lie,
The romantic lie in the brain
Of the sensual man-in-the-street
And the lie of Authority
Whose buildings grope the sky:
There is no such thing as the State
And no one exists alone;
Hunger allows no choice
To the citizen or the police;
We must love one another or die…”

Regards, Carl

> On Jan 4, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu> wrote:
> 
> I criticize both sides Mort.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
> 
>> What do you know about the situation in Aleppo, Belden?  I suggest you look elsewhere than to the NYT and other main stream media. Perhaps even RN, horror of horrors, or Antiwar.com <http://antiwar.com/>, etc. . 
>> Yes the Russians have interests in not having radical Islamists taking over Syria, and were called in by the only legitimate government there, even if you don’t approve of it. Meanwhile the USA, Saudi Arabia, and friends, Israel too, have been supplying weapons, intelligence(?) and funds to the so-called rebels, many/most not even Syrians—instigating the conflict there. Regime change has long been on the table by the U.S. government for Syria, part of our hegemonic outlook. 
>> Your criticism is perverse. 
>>> On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:30 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Karl,
>>> 
>>> I find it obscene when you say that the Russian air force was in Syria "legally," justifying the hellish nightmare that it unleashed upon the people of Aleppo.  This  was a war crime of incredible magnitude.  Your " anti-war" posture is pure hypocrisy. If other in AWARE share your view, the name should be changed.  You are neither anti-war nor anti-racist.  Drop the mask.
>>> Belden
>>> 
>>> From: Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net>] on behalf of Carl G. Estabrook via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>]
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:48 AM
>>> To: Debra Schrishuhn
>>> Cc: Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace; prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net <mailto:prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net>; Occupy CU
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>>> 
>>> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>>> 
>>> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new administration into their lethal practices.
>>> 
>>> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>>> 
>>> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this administration and the next. 
>>> 
>>> —CGE
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com <mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any human being?
>>>> 
>>>> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about you. 
>>>> 
>>>> Debra
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:32 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I have great respect for Richard Wolff, but I wish he’d button his shirt and give us a transcript.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ve gotten too old to listen to lectures.  —CGE
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I must say that it remains to be seen what Trump will do/represent. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Aside from his asserted intention to talk to the Russians and  emphasize domestic over foreign affairs, his statements relative to China and Cuba and…,  with respect to climate change, his coziness with Generals and his expressed intention to increase military spending perhaps by a factor of two, his favoring of “order” (police?) over civil rights, does not lead me to believe the confident remarks of the author who wrote the sentence cited below.This, even leaving aside  the various contradictory and ignorant statements he is prone to make.. But yes, he will be a traditionally conservative Republican in favoring the corporate world which he probably knows best and in diverse retrograde social issues. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I highly recommend a recent YouTube presentation by economist Richard Wolf on the subject of Trumpenomics:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dut6sPW52Q <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D4dut6sPW52Q&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=tfHzwZBcTLEveiewRiq0OdhFmfRmlvZjpIBS0AUJ2v0&m=jbq2REMoWTrUcPcW_Zw2dZeZmWCombhW2QUPPXFJd58&s=N1CKhzmKitDas355CVb225hfI4Az5HZWsARv6ms2Jes&e=>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> —mkb
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "This is what Trump represents, not radicalism but conservatism in its truest sense, a return to calm after a storm. His policies are amongst the most moderate in recent history. He is anti-interventionist, opposed to the apparatuses that should have been forgotten after the Cold War and his fiscal policies could easily be confused with those of a pre-Goldwater East Coast Republican.”
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://theduran.com/putin-trump-new-normalcy/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__theduran.com_putin-2Dtrump-2Dnew-2Dnormalcy_&d=DQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=p915nq0Xfo8V4YRIR4whp5YnS4icG4S9TsajKC0xuIk&s=EAn-nkhBUtvVHJiCC7exkH8jtIK31Mv-VrVDx-QCFNY&e=>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ____
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __._,_.___
>>> Posted by: "Fields, A Belden" <a-fields at illinois.edu <mailto:a-fields at illinois.edu>> 
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>>> __,_._,___
>> 

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