[Peace] [Peace-discuss] Join us to leaflet the Art Theatre tonight 6-7pm

Thu May 11 15:38:58 UTC 2017

Well argued, Harry
Deb

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 11, 2017, at 10:13 AM, Harry Mickalide via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Carl, here is my frustration. You continue to assert that BSFR (Black Students for Revolution) is engaging in identity politics at the expense of being anti-capitalist and anti-war when multiple people have told you that BSFR is very much anti-capitalist and anti-war.
> 
> Here are some quotes from their list of demands to prove it.
> https://www.bsfruiuc.com/our-demands
> 
> From demand 1
> "While students are being handcuffed with loans, private lenders are making a profit and the federal government is spending public funds on wars, drones, wall street bailouts, and corporate subsidies. Situated at the intersection of white supremacy, capitalism, and patriarchy, today’s education model marginalizes and excludes both the working class and students of color. As a first step towards a tuition-free and debt-free reality within higher education, we demand that tuition hikes come to an immediate and permanent end, and that MAP Grants, regardless of state funding, should continue to be issued to recipients."
> 
> From demand 8
> "We believe adequate shelter, food, water, and health care are human rights owed to all workers, and that a living wage is a first step in ensuring that for all people."
> 
> From demand 13
> They call for divestment from "corporations which actively support or enable states currently carrying out human right’s abuses (e.g., Israel, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar), all private prison corporations, and all private military contractors and weapons manufacturers."
> 
> Despite this clear overlap between the goals of AWARE and BSFR, you refuse to support them because they are also choosing to rally around their shared blackness? That seems hella racist to me.
> 
>> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> More useful than Google (not, perhaps, the most revolutionary organization...) is the ‘Search’ function on the Peace-discuss archives, Karen.
>> 
>> This is from six months ago, re <https://www.bsfruiuc.com/our-demands>:
>> 
>>> ...The list certainly raises (once again) questions of the nature and provenance of identity politics (the mainstay of the Clinton campaign).
>>> See Adolph Reed's mordant description … :
>>> 
>>> 	"[Identity] politics is not an alternative to class politics; it is a class politics, the politics of the left-wing of neoliberalism. It is the expression and active agency of a political order and moral economy in which capitalist market forces are treated as unassailable nature.
>>> 	"An integral element of that moral economy is displacement of the critique of the invidious outcomes produced by capitalist class power onto equally naturalized categories of ascriptive identity that sort us into groups supposedly defined by what we essentially are rather than what we do. As I have argued, following Walter Michaels and others, within that moral economy a society in which 1% of the population controlled 90% of the resources could be just, provided that roughly 12% of the 1% were black, 12% were Latino, 50% were women, and whatever the appropriate proportions were LGBT people.
>>> 	"It would be tough to imagine a normative ideal that expresses more unambiguously the social position of people who consider themselves candidates for inclusion in, or at least significant staff positions in service to, the ruling class” <http://bennorton.com/adolph-reed-identity-politics-is-neoliberalism/>.
>>> 
>>> It’s difficult to see how a serious critique of US war-making can arise from identity politics. (Not enough blacks and women among Special Forces killers?)
>>> It would seem that US war-making arises from domestic and foreign class conflicts; given that we’ve killed more than 20 million in 37 nations since WWII, we should be clear about causes.
>>> <https://www.popularresistance.org/us-has-killed-more-than-20-million-in-37-nations-since-wwii/>.
>>> 
>>> AWARE has seen as its task for 15 years to encourage awareness of how and why the US government is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.
>>> And to do that we must tell the truth and shame the devil, as Hotspur says. 
>>> 
>>> I’m not convinced that endorsing these demands contributes to that effort. —CGE
>> 
>> Six months on, and as worthwhile as some of the goals of the demands seem, that still seems right to me. 
>> 
>> Regards, Carl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 11, 2017, at 9:06 AM, kmedina67 via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Carl, Google it.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>>> 
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: "Carl G. Estabrook" 
>>> 
>>> Send me their list of demands (and read Reed…)
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Point to items on their list that are identity politics
>>>> 
>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>  e.g. Adolph Reed’s critique:
>>>> 
>>>> <http://bennorton.com/adolph-reed-identity-politics-is-neoliberalism/>.
>>>> 
>>>> AWARE was founded to foster local opposition to US war-making and racism - and, by implication, capitalism, the source of both.
>>>> 
>>>> We should be willing to cooperate with others who have effective ways to do that as well.
>>>> 
>>>> But as Reed explains, identity politics is a defense of capitalism - and therefore at best only accidentally useful in an anti-war anti-racism effort.  
>>>> 
>>>> —CGE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carl,  
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is online. I can't copy and paste the url from my cell phone. But you can Google their demands.
>>>>> -karen medina
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace mailing list
>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace mailing list
>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace mailing list
> Peace at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace/attachments/20170511/5816dc59/attachment.html>