[Peace] [Peace-discuss] Flyer for AWARE demonstration, Saturday 12/2

Thu Nov 30 18:31:21 UTC 2017

I still think a better simpler flyer would look like this:

Projected annual cost for universal healthcare, free college, and universal
basic income: $X

Annual military budget: $600 billion

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <
peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> Yes, it is a distraction, and I have argued this point with those who
> suggest it, other than for war, which no one suggests, and actually might
> be worthwhile.
>
> However, I’ll say it again, it’s totally counterproductive to the anti-war
> movement and our demonstration.
>
>  I have another appointment on Saturday so don’t plan to attend our
> demonstration.
>
> End of conversation on this topic, on my part.
>
> PS Even Peter Lavalle of Crosstalk, who supported Trump vs. Hillary, has
> now stated emphatically, "he is glad Hillary is not President, but he in no
> way supports Trump given what he is doing.”
>
> > On Nov 30, 2017, at 07:42, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I agree that we should focus on "what the USG is doing in respect to
> war.”
> >
> > That’s why ‘Impeach Trump’ is a distraction - a purposeful distraction,
> by the those calling for continuity in US fp and war-making.
> >
> >
> >> On Nov 30, 2017, at 9:15 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> We should be informing people, when it comes to flyers, of what the USG
> is doing.
> >> Most Americans aren’t aware that we are in eight wars, with potential
> for two more.
> >> Oh yes, they all know how awful the N. Korean leader is, they all fear
> Iran having nuclear weapons, but do they know there is a solution to the N.
> Korean problem, one for which we the US could implement, but refuses to do
> so.
> >>
> >> Do the American people know that we are in the process of savaging
> Africa, again?
> >> Do they know the US is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world?
> >>
> >> Carl, these are all things you have talked about, and placed in flyers
> before.
> >>
> >> Focusing on individuals to blame, is a tactic that alienates and
> divides a people. If you were writing an article to be published, or on FB
> thats one thing, but a flyer representing an organization, should merely
> paraphrase what the USG is doing in respect to war.
> >>
> >>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 07:03, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> That earlier flyer was meant to combat Obama’s squeaky-clean image,
> which he was good at fostering while he administered “the most extreme
> terrorist campaign of modern times."
> >>>
> >>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.commondreams.org%2Fnews%2F2015%2F01%2F19%2Fnoam-
> chomsky-obamas-drone-program-most-extreme-terrorist-
> campaign-modern-times&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%
> 7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=hTjN23pUJtWprTOOgI5SDxa8U20Zi1
> AJ9WKIOK8m6zM%3D&reserved=0> .
> >>>
> >>> And see the puff-piece on his 'toughness’: <https://nam02.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%
> 2F2012%2F05%2F29%2Fworld%2Fobamas-leadership-in-war-on-
> al-qaeda.html&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%
> 7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=NixKmaCjl2DD%2FULwArRx%
> 2FjLU6vWOmH%2BFZ8s%2FLV5hvL4%3D&reserved=0>.
> >>>
> >>> But I don’t think anyone contends that US world-wide mass murder
> post-WWII is a matter of presidential caprice, even if they could have
> acted differently.
> >>>
> >>> Neither Obama nor Trump had to send tens of thousands more troops to
> Afghanistan (as they did) after running as critics of the war (as they did).
> >>>
> >>> Condemning and opposing US war-making doesn’t depend on affixing
> individual responsibility. (Was Truman responsible for Hiroshima? Yes.
> Alone? No.)
> >>>
> >>> —CGE
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 8:39 AM, David Green via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> In any event, this language contrasts sharply with a flyer from two
> years ago, which holds Obama responsible:
> >>>>
> >>>> President Obama is making war in eight countries; he is sending
> American ‘special forces’ into more than 100 countries around the world; he
> has assassinated thousands  by drone - the most extreme terrorist campaign
> of modern times; and he is provoking war with Russia and China.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not sure how we can justify the difference in tone and substance
> regarding the warmaking "motivations" of Obama and Trump.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday, November 30, 2017, 7:06:53 AM CST, Karen Aram via
> Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Carl
> >>>>
> >>>> No one knows better than I, no one has spoken more about the powers
> behind the throne than I. I’m the one, with AWARE, who has been making the
> argument that any President who comes to power, as either a Republican or
> Democrat is going to implement the foreign policy plan put into place by
> the Oligarchs behind the throne. One of which was Brzezinski, just to keep
> it simple.
> >>>>
> >>>> As a Green socialist, who does not support the one Party system,
> Democrat/ Republican, once they get to DC. I have been highlighting the
> very fact, of the Pentagon, CIA, Council on Foreign Relations, Think Tanks,
> Corporations and Contractors as those pushing the US war agenda.
> >>>>
> >>>> But, to imply that Trump anymore than Obama is an unwitting dope of
> those who make up the “Deep State” “Military Industrial Complex,” however
> we wish to refer to them, is a mistake, most especially in the title of a
> flyer. Whether architects or rubber stamps of our foreign policy, they are
> all complicit.
> >>>>
> >>>> A FLYER is meant to impart information, but no one is going to read
> it, when it acts as an apology for Trump. He is as vile a creature as
> Clinton, in that he supported the rhetoric of lies and propaganda against
> Libya and Gaddafi. He is guilty of bombing Syria, and now provoking war
> with N Korea and Iran. Yes, he is attempting peace with Russia and China,
> he knows where a dollar is to be made. Though it matters not, when the plan
> is war with China, predicted by the Rand Think Tank and Pentagon in to be
> 2030. Our continued presence of Nato on the border of Russia is not going
> away.
> >>>>
> >>>> Roger has just proved my point. He has assessed us as Trump
> supporters, in spite of my statement, in spite of David Greens statement.
> What do you think people will think of AWARE, upon receipt of our flyer?
> And, as I said, focus on the election in order to bash the Clintons is also
> of no value.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 18:29, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The concentration on Trump is the strategy of the (pro-)War Party
> (the Pentagon, the 'intelligence community,' the Clinton campaign, the
> neocons) to force the government to continue the wars and war provocations
> of the last administrations. They think either Trump can be forced to fall
> in line with the war policy (as he shown he’s willing to do) under the
> threat of ‘Russiagate’ - or be replaced (with Pence, a War Party creature).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The anti-war movement has to insist that Trump - the weakest
> president since Coolidge (“silent Cal,”|who followed the opposite
> performance strategy to Trump's bluster) - is not the problem, but that the
> continuing and largely unvaried Clinton-Bush-Obama war-making is. That's
> the policy that must be resisted.  The War Party (who of course support
> that policy) is using Trump as a distraction from that policy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We should be opposing the Pentagon, the CIA, the Obama-Clintonists,
> the neocons, et al., who are promoting war provocations vs. Russia and
> China - not bothering much with the Potemkin president.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John Pilger saw it clearly before the election: "The CIA has
> demanded Trump is not elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he is not
> elected. The pro-war New York Times - taking a breather from its relentless
> low-rent Putin smears - demands that he is not elected. Something is up.
> These tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the
> multi-billion-dollar business of war by which the United States maintains
> its dominance will be undermined if Trump does a deal with Putin, then with
> China’s Xi Jinping. Their panic at the possibility of the world’s great
> power talking peace – however unlikely – would be the blackest farce were
> the issues not so dire.” —CGE
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 5:31 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I’m sorry, Carl
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I don’t like it, the title alone makes AWARE look like “Trump
> defenders.” It’s one thing to say this in conversation when explaining our
> wars, to those who think the problem began with Trump, but as a title, it
> sucks. Most people in this town are Democrats and won’t bother to read it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I’m not pleased with some of that which is in the article either,
> because the focus  on the election is old news. Its time to move on. Trump
> is President and he is responsible for that which occurs on his watch.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Trump bombed Syria and that is an impeachable offense, granted
> every other President before him, committed war crimes that were also
> impeachable offenses, Bush and most especially Obama, but Trump has been in
> power for almost a year now. His provocations of war with Korea, and Iran
> are extremely dangerous.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 12:46, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT THE PROBLEM:
> >>>>>>> ILLEGAL U.S. WARS AROUND THE WORLD ARE
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The US government is today making war around the world - and it’s
> doing so without authorization from the U.S. Constitution or the U.N.
> Charter.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If American leaders were put on trial today as German leaders
> were, at Nuremberg after World War II, for “launching aggressive war,” they
> - like the German leaders - would be hanged.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The U.S. military is today killing people in seven Mideast and
> African countries - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and
> Pakistan (and on the other side of the world, in the Philippines).
> Thousands of U.S. troops are fighting in these countries, although most
> Americans don’t know that.  In addition, the 70,000-member U.S. ‘Special
> Operations Command’ is active in three-quarters of the countries of the
> world. Their activities include kidnapping (‘rendition’), torture, and
> murder.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> President Obama was elected as an anti-war candidate, but in
> office he sent thousands of additional U.S. troops into America’s longest
> war, in Afghanistan. President Trump, who promised caution and
> non-interventionism in foreign policy - and described Hillary Clinton as a
> “trigger happy warmonger” - has now done the same thing himself.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What both men knew is that, in spite of intense media propaganda,
> most Americans don’t want U.S. troops engaged in foreign wars and don’t see
> the killing as justified; both candidates had to seem to oppose the wars,
> in order to get elected.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But the ‘one percent’ - the U.S. economic elite - do want the wars.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When World War II ended in 1945, the U.S. was the least-damaged
> major country on either side, and controlled the world economy. America’s
> wars since then - in Korea, Vietnam, Latin America, and the Mideast - have
> killed between 20 and 30 million people for the purpose of maintaining that
> control. Ordinary Americans have paid for these vicious wars, but they
> haven’t profited from them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> John Pilger wrote before the election, "The CIA has demanded Trump
> is not elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he is not elected. The
> pro-war New York Times - taking a breather from its relentless low-rent
> Putin smears - demands that he is not elected. Something is up. These
> tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the multi-billion-dollar
> business of war by which the United States maintains its dominance will be
> undermined if Trump does a deal with Putin, then with China’s Xi Jinping.
> Their panic at the possibility of the world’s great power talking peace –
> however unlikely – would be the blackest farce were the issues not so dire."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We must demand that foreign military bases be closed, U.S. troops
> (and weapons) be brought home, and social support - including free medical
> care, education, and a universal basic income - be provided for Americans
> immiserated by generations of U.S. government wars.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> WRITE CONGRESS - DEMAND U.S. TROOPS & WEAPONS BE BROUGHT HOME
> >>>>>>> Our representatives in Congress from this area - and their email
> addresses - are as follows:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Representative Rodney Davis: <https://nam02.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frodneydavis.
> house.gov%2Fcontact%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%
> 7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=xcTtdbDasaZ5ilKiNEHR7Eawu6IvnW
> L2bnj9ZsA8q2U%3D&reserved=0>
> >>>>>>> Senator Tammy Duckworth: <https://nam02.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.duckworth.
> senate.gov%2Fcontent%2Fcontact-senator&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.
> com%7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=ugx3F6jNnTw2LpZoBcxfPI9o9834%
> 2FbvN0Itn3y%2Fe4dc%3D&reserved=0>
> >>>>>>> Senator Dick Durbin: <https://nam02.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.durbin.
> senate.gov%2Fcontact%2Femail&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%
> 7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=kNZmKv%
> 2F0gLlwP8CkdtxIgicnw89CR2e3c%2FllkENOnJg%3D&reserved=0>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ~~~
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ANTI-WAR ANTI-RACISM EFFORT - on Facebook at <AWARE of Champaign
> Urbana Illinois>
> >>>>>>> ~ U.S. troops & weapons out of the Mideast ~ Medicare for all ~
> Universal basic income ~
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>
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