[Peace] [Peace-discuss] Flyer for AWARE demonstration, Saturday 12/2

Thu Nov 30 22:18:59 UTC 2017

Sorry to be late to the party on commenting, here.  Thank you all very much- I am learning so much from you!! I have been catching up on previous "Aware on the Air" episodes from this year. 
Because I am new to the formal anti-war movement, I appreciate very much Carl's recitation of basic USG wartime facts at the beginning of each AOTA episode. His delivery helps me memorize them! My comments on any flyers would then be, as a newbie to a demonstration, that I would find many facts like those or others useful and shocking. Many people have absolutely no idea that we have as many bases outside the country as we do, and many people have no idea that Russia only has 15; China 1. (Correct?) 
Random thought #1: not related to flyer: Important to address unfounded  fears people will have (I did)  when hearing  "bring back troops" , "cut military in half" . Without knowing/feeling facts of why  U. S. is  major terrorist,  or seeing a plan of bases to close,  or a jobs plan for soldiers, I was fearful of the whole thing. Which brought me to research more, for which I am grateful Aware has links to CounterPunch,  military historians, new events in Asia like Karen brings.
 Random #2: As we know to our sorrow,  many people still believe U of C Arthur Laffer -curve trickle-down economics . And in outsourcing all the negative costs of capitalism to the environment and the community instead of making producers be responsible. I prefer to call out continued growth in a corporation as a physical impossibility, just like No Child Left Behind made no sense from the way it was set up, or a cancer is unrestrained growth. 
Real life is a cycle. Which would make sense to Millenniels. Where those concepts for into anti-war, Idk. I think they do. Guns & butter from 1st year economics might resonate with those who consider themselves classic GOP conservatives.  
Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
------ Original message------From: Karen Aram via Peace-discussDate: Thu, Nov 30, 2017 1:16 PMTo: Carl G. Estabrook;Cc: Karen Aram via Peace-discuss;Harry Mickalide;Peace;Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace]  Flyer for AWARE demonstration, Saturday 12/2

Harry is correct, keeping it simple is best, not my skill set. He is also correct that focus on the monetary cost of war and intervention to US domestic social services, including healthcare, education, etc. appeals to most people, so should always
 be mentioned. A total focus on costs of war, isn’t really us, but it does need to be mentioned. 

How can we overlook the genocide taking place in Yemen, or the slavery in Libya of Black Africans as a result of the US destruction of that nation in 2011. It’s now being used as a cause for military intervention, again, basically bringing more troops in than
 those we’ve already had there. 

Trump has announced more troops in Afghanistan, and Col. Larry Wilkerson has predicted we will be there forever, due to China’s economic progress in that region. 

Bottom line, the USG is planning perpetual war in many nations around the globe, its become the norm for the millennial generation. 

In relation to Africa (the sahel, in particular) the fourteen nations previously colonized by France, and again being recolonized by way of military occupation, the US is involved in all, because the French military is incapable, just as is the
 Saudi military, without US military technical, and logistical support. 

On Nov 30, 2017, at 10:40, Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:

The US should in fact be spending much more on war than the current military budget - paying reparations for the damage we've done and the people we’ve killed in the wars of the current generation. 

But it’s not the case that war spending means we can’t afford universal healthcare, free college, and universal basic income. 

The USG can’t run out of money. No one refuses a check signed by the US government. —CGE

On Nov 30, 2017, at 12:31 PM, Harry Mickalide via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

I still think a better simpler flyer would look like this:

Projected annual cost for universal healthcare, free college, and universal basic income: $X

Annual military budget: $600 billion

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Karen Aram via Peace 
<peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

Yes, it is a distraction, and I have argued this point with those who suggest it, other than for war, which no one suggests, and actually might be worthwhile.

However, I’ll say it again, it’s totally counterproductive to the anti-war movement and our demonstration.

 I have another appointment on Saturday so don’t plan to attend our demonstration.

End of conversation on this topic, on my part.

PS Even Peter Lavalle of Crosstalk, who supported Trump vs. Hillary, has now stated emphatically, "he is glad Hillary is not President, but he in no way supports Trump given what he is doing.”

> On Nov 30, 2017, at 07:42, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:

>

> I agree that we should focus on "what the USG is doing in respect to war.”

>

> That’s why ‘Impeach Trump’ is a distraction - a purposeful distraction, by the those calling for continuity in US fp and war-making.

>

>

>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 9:15 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

>>

>> We should be informing people, when it comes to flyers, of what the USG is doing.

>> Most Americans aren’t aware that we are in eight wars, with potential for two more.

>> Oh yes, they all know how awful the N. Korean leader is, they all fear Iran having nuclear weapons, but do they know there is a solution to the N. Korean problem, one for which we the US could implement, but refuses to do so.

>>

>> Do the American people know that we are in the process of savaging Africa, again?

>> Do they know the US is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world?

>>

>> Carl, these are all things you have talked about, and placed in flyers before.

>>

>> Focusing on individuals to blame, is a tactic that alienates and divides a people. If you were writing an article to be published, or on FB thats one thing, but a flyer representing an organization, should merely paraphrase what the USG is doing in respect
 to war.

>>

>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 07:03, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>

>>> That earlier flyer was meant to combat Obama’s squeaky-clean image, which he was good at fostering while he administered “the most extreme terrorist campaign of modern times."

>>>

>>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.commondreams.org%2Fnews%2F2015%2F01%2F19%2Fnoam-chomsky-obamas-drone-program-most-extreme-terrorist-campaign-modern-times&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=hTjN23pUJtWprTOOgI5SDxa8U20Zi1AJ9WKIOK8m6zM%3D&reserved=0>
 .

>>>

>>> And see the puff-piece on his 'toughness’: <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2012%2F05%2F29%2Fworld%2Fobamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=NixKmaCjl2DD%2FULwArRx%2FjLU6vWOmH%2BFZ8s%2FLV5hvL4%3D&reserved=0>.

>>>

>>> But I don’t think anyone contends that US world-wide mass murder post-WWII is a matter of presidential caprice, even if they could have acted differently.

>>>

>>> Neither Obama nor Trump had to send tens of thousands more troops to Afghanistan (as they did) after running as critics of the war (as they did).

>>>

>>> Condemning and opposing US war-making doesn’t depend on affixing individual responsibility. (Was Truman responsible for Hiroshima? Yes. Alone? No.)

>>>

>>> —CGE

>>>

>>>

>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 8:39 AM, David Green via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

>>>>

>>>> In any event, this language contrasts sharply with a flyer from two years ago, which holds Obama responsible:

>>>>

>>>> President Obama is making war in eight countries; he is sending American ‘special forces’ into more than 100 countries around the world; he has assassinated thousands  by drone - the most extreme terrorist campaign of modern times; and he is provoking
 war with Russia and China.

>>>>

>>>> I'm not sure how we can justify the difference in tone and substance regarding the warmaking "motivations" of Obama and Trump.

>>>>

>>>> On Thursday, November 30, 2017, 7:06:53 AM CST, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Carl

>>>>

>>>> No one knows better than I, no one has spoken more about the powers behind the throne than I. I’m the one, with AWARE, who has been making the argument that any President who comes to power, as either a Republican or Democrat is going to implement the
 foreign policy plan put into place by the Oligarchs behind the throne. One of which was Brzezinski, just to keep it simple.

>>>>

>>>> As a Green socialist, who does not support the one Party system, Democrat/ Republican, once they get to DC. I have been highlighting the very fact, of the Pentagon, CIA, Council on Foreign Relations, Think Tanks, Corporations and Contractors as those pushing
 the US war agenda.

>>>>

>>>> But, to imply that Trump anymore than Obama is an unwitting dope of those who make up the “Deep State” “Military Industrial Complex,” however we wish to refer to them, is a mistake, most especially in the title of a flyer. Whether architects or rubber
 stamps of our foreign policy, they are all complicit.

>>>>

>>>> A FLYER is meant to impart information, but no one is going to read it, when it acts as an apology for Trump. He is as vile a creature as Clinton, in that he supported the rhetoric of lies and propaganda against Libya and Gaddafi. He is guilty of bombing
 Syria, and now provoking war with N Korea and Iran. Yes, he is attempting peace with Russia and China, he knows where a dollar is to be made. Though it matters not, when the plan is war with China, predicted by the Rand Think Tank and Pentagon in to be 2030.
 Our continued presence of Nato on the border of Russia is not going away.

>>>>

>>>> Roger has just proved my point. He has assessed us as Trump supporters, in spite of my statement, in spite of David Greens statement. What do you think people will think of AWARE, upon receipt of our flyer? And, as I said, focus on the election in order
 to bash the Clintons is also of no value.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 18:29, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> The concentration on Trump is the strategy of the (pro-)War Party (the Pentagon, the 'intelligence community,' the Clinton campaign, the neocons) to force the government to continue the wars and war provocations of the last administrations. They think
 either Trump can be forced to fall in line with the war policy (as he shown he’s willing to do) under the threat of ‘Russiagate’ - or be replaced (with Pence, a War Party creature).

>>>>>

>>>>> The anti-war movement has to insist that Trump - the weakest president since Coolidge (“silent Cal,”|who followed the opposite performance strategy to Trump's bluster) - is not the problem, but that the continuing and largely unvaried Clinton-Bush-Obama
 war-making is. That's the policy that must be resisted.  The War Party (who of course support that policy) is using Trump as a distraction from that policy.

>>>>>

>>>>> We should be opposing the Pentagon, the CIA, the Obama-Clintonists, the neocons, et al., who are promoting war provocations vs. Russia and China - not bothering much with the Potemkin president.

>>>>>

>>>>> John Pilger saw it clearly before the election: "The CIA has demanded Trump is not elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he is not elected. The pro-war New York Times - taking a breather from its relentless low-rent Putin smears - demands that he is
 not elected. Something is up. These tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the multi-billion-dollar business of war by which the United States maintains its dominance will be undermined if Trump does a deal with Putin, then with China’s Xi Jinping.
 Their panic at the possibility of the world’s great power talking peace – however unlikely – would be the blackest farce were the issues not so dire.” —CGE

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 5:31 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I’m sorry, Carl

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I don’t like it, the title alone makes AWARE look like “Trump defenders.” It’s one thing to say this in conversation when explaining our wars, to those who think the problem began with Trump, but as a title, it sucks. Most people in this town are Democrats
 and won’t bother to read it.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I’m not pleased with some of that which is in the article either, because the focus  on the election is old news. Its time to move on. Trump is President and he is responsible for that which occurs on his watch.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Trump bombed Syria and that is an impeachable offense, granted every other President before him, committed war crimes that were also impeachable offenses, Bush and most especially Obama, but Trump has been in power for almost a year now. His provocations
 of war with Korea, and Iran are extremely dangerous.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 12:46, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT THE PROBLEM:

>>>>>>> ILLEGAL U.S. WARS AROUND THE WORLD ARE

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The US government is today making war around the world - and it’s doing so without authorization from the U.S. Constitution or the U.N. Charter.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> If American leaders were put on trial today as German leaders were, at Nuremberg after World War II, for “launching aggressive war,” they - like the German leaders - would be hanged.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The U.S. military is today killing people in seven Mideast and African countries - Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan (and on the other side of the world, in the Philippines). Thousands of U.S. troops are fighting in these
 countries, although most Americans don’t know that.  In addition, the 70,000-member U.S. ‘Special Operations Command’ is active in three-quarters of the countries of the world. Their activities include kidnapping (‘rendition’), torture, and murder.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> President Obama was elected as an anti-war candidate, but in office he sent thousands of additional U.S. troops into America’s longest war, in Afghanistan. President Trump, who promised caution and non-interventionism in foreign policy - and described
 Hillary Clinton as a “trigger happy warmonger” - has now done the same thing himself.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> What both men knew is that, in spite of intense media propaganda, most Americans don’t want U.S. troops engaged in foreign wars and don’t see the killing as justified; both candidates had to seem to oppose the wars, in order to get elected.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> But the ‘one percent’ - the U.S. economic elite - do want the wars.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> When World War II ended in 1945, the U.S. was the least-damaged major country on either side, and controlled the world economy. America’s wars since then - in Korea, Vietnam, Latin America, and the Mideast - have killed between 20 and 30 million people
 for the purpose of maintaining that control. Ordinary Americans have paid for these vicious wars, but they haven’t profited from them.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> John Pilger wrote before the election, "The CIA has demanded Trump is not elected. Pentagon generals have demanded he is not elected. The pro-war New York Times - taking a breather from its relentless low-rent Putin smears - demands that he is not elected.
 Something is up. These tribunes of 'perpetual war' are terrified that the multi-billion-dollar business of war by which the United States maintains its dominance will be undermined if Trump does a deal with Putin, then with China’s Xi Jinping. Their panic
 at the possibility of the world’s great power talking peace – however unlikely – would be the blackest farce were the issues not so dire."

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> We must demand that foreign military bases be closed, U.S. troops (and weapons) be brought home, and social support - including free medical care, education, and a universal basic income - be provided for Americans immiserated by generations of U.S.
 government wars.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> WRITE CONGRESS - DEMAND U.S. TROOPS & WEAPONS BE BROUGHT HOME

>>>>>>> Our representatives in Congress from this area - and their email addresses - are as follows:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Representative Rodney Davis: <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frodneydavis.house.gov%2Fcontact%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=xcTtdbDasaZ5ilKiNEHR7Eawu6IvnWL2bnj9ZsA8q2U%3D&reserved=0>

>>>>>>> Senator Tammy Duckworth: <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.duckworth.senate.gov%2Fcontent%2Fcontact-senator&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=ugx3F6jNnTw2LpZoBcxfPI9o9834%2FbvN0Itn3y%2Fe4dc%3D&reserved=0>

>>>>>>> Senator Dick Durbin: <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.durbin.senate.gov%2Fcontact%2Femail&data=02%7C01%7Ckarenaram%40hotmail.com%7Cf666ae76fb7a4230b3e308d5380383c8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636476510093637620&sdata=kNZmKv%2F0gLlwP8CkdtxIgicnw89CR2e3c%2FllkENOnJg%3D&reserved=0>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> ~~~

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> ANTI-WAR ANTI-RACISM EFFORT - on Facebook at <AWARE of Champaign Urbana Illinois>

>>>>>>> ~ U.S. troops & weapons out of the Mideast ~ Medicare for all ~ Universal basic income ~

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

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>>>>>>

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>>>>>

>>>>

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>>

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