[Peace] [Peace-discuss] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday

Karen Aram karenaram at hotmail.com
Mon Aug 13 23:50:41 UTC 2018 

Carl, yes they are because many of them, the leaders, as well as those likely set up by the CIA, are supported by the neocons in government, who are supported by the corporate ruling elites whatever Party is in power. 


> On Aug 13, 2018, at 16:40, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Forget about the ‘AltRight.’ The AltRight is not killing people around the world.
> 
> Our government is. We should be opposing the Congress, the major parties, the Pentagon, the State Department, the ‘intelligence community’ et al. - the war party.
> 
> At worst, the AltRight is a stick to beat Trump with, so that he resumes Obama’s neocon and neolib policies. (“Did you see what Putin’s puppet said about Charlottesville?!”)
> 
> —CGE
> 
> 
> “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about answers.” —Pynchon
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Harry Mickalide via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Well said Karen!
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 5:53 PM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> Carl, then by all means do so, acting positively is always more effective than acting negatively towards others activism. 
>> 
>> As I said before, ANSWER is the one anti-war organization formed before the Iraq war, as an opponent to war, and they have never stopped or given up protesting against war. So, criticizing them for going out against fascism seems to me to be rather petti, and I think you would agree, if you weren’t set on being contentious.
>> 
>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:06, Estabrook, Carl G <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)?
>>> 
>>> Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...")
>>> 
>>> --CGE 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote:
>>>>> Carl
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------ Original message------
>>>>>> From: C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss
>>>>>> Date: Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM
>>>>>> To: Karen Aram;
>>>>>> Cc: peace;Peace Discuss;
>>>>>> Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”!     
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but the fact is: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that it was extremely difficult to get the numbers. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!”
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dear Karen, 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized, or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In solidarity, 
>>>>>>>>> All of us at ANSWER Coalition 
>>>>>>>>> http://www.answercoalition.org/
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>

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