[Peace] [Peace-discuss] "...thinking makes it so"

[Harry Mickalide]

It's not that Antifa doesn't expect punishment. It's that they *risk
*punishment
in order to defend us and fight fascism.

In fact, if we're going to compare the difference between thought and
action, we here on the Internet are *thinking* about creating a just world,
while people in Antifa are in the streets actually *doing *it.

Here is an article where multiple people thank Antifa for defending them
from Nazis.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html


On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 11:06 PM, David Green via Peace <
peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> I'm not sure of the precise origin of the notion of "hate crimes" in the
> law in our own country, if there is such an origin; but my sense--perhaps
> more directly applicable to European and Canadian laws that directly
> monitor speech--has long been that what Norman Finkelstein has called the
> "Holocaust Industry" contributed to the development of such a notion, by
> equating the actuality of the Holocaust, anti-semitic beliefs, and
> criticism of Israel's very real crimes.
>
> DG
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 9:47 PM C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> It might mean
>> (a) opinion constitutes moral worth - "it’s good/evil if you think it
>> is”; or
>> (b) opinion misinterprets moral worth - "it’s good, but you mistakenly
>> think it evil.”
>>
>> HAMLET, 2.2=================================================
>> • Hamlet. ... What news ?
>> • Rosencrantz. None, my lord, but that the world's grown honest.
>> • Hamlet. Then is doomsday near! But your news is not true. Let me
>> question more in particular. What have you, my good friends,
>> deserved at the hands of Fortune that she sends you to prison
>> hither?
>> • Guildenstern. Prison, my lord?
>> • Hamlet. Denmark's a prison.
>> • Rosencrantz. Then is the world one.
>> • Hamlet. A goodly one; in which there are many confines, wards, and
>> dungeons, Denmark being one o' th' worst.
>> • Rosencrantz. We think not so, my lord.
>> • Hamlet. Why, then 'tis none to you; for there is nothing either good
>> or bad but thinking makes it so. To me it is a prison.
>> • Rosencrantz. Why, then your ambition makes it one. 'Tis too narrow for
>> your
>> mind.
>> • Hamlet. O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a
>> king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams.
>> • Guildenstern. Which dreams indeed are ambition; for the very substance
>> of
>> the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.
>> • Hamlet. A dream itself is but a shadow.
>> • Rosencrantz. Truly, and I hold ambition of so airy and light a quality
>> that
>> it is but a shadow's shadow.
>> • Hamlet. Then are our beggars bodies, and our monarchs and outstretch'd
>> heroes the beggars' shadows. Shall we to th' court? for, by my
>> fay, I cannot reason.
>> =========================================================
>>
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2018, at 9:08 PM, David Green via Peace <
>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>> How is the line from Hamlet misunderstood?
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 6:57 PM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>>> One of the most misunderstood lines in Shakespeare is Hamlet’s “...there
>>> is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
>>>
>>> Here a FOA (Friend of AWARE) brilliantly applies it to current US
>>> politics (h/t K. Aram):
>>>
>>> "Today I had two discussions, one with people advocating hate crime
>>> laws, and another with people defending Antifa, and it occurred to me that
>>> they were pretty much the same people.
>>>
>>> "Hate crime laws are actually thought crime laws, in that they take what
>>> is already a crime, and add years to the sentence if the perp was thinking
>>> bad thoughts when they committed the crime.
>>>
>>> "Antifas are people who commit crimes, and expect to go unpunished at
>>> all, because they were thinking good thoughts when they committed the crime.
>>>
>>> "This is magical thinking, the idea that thoughts are more important
>>> than reality. This is very American, since we have had multiple Think
>>> Yourself Rich fads, from Napoleon Hill to Oprah. And we are earnestly told
>>> that having a president who 'believes' in climate change is more important
>>> than actual policy changes. And, of course, the latest fad in which you can
>>> think yourself right into the opposite sex. (And not in the old 'think
>>> yourself irresistible' way.)
>>>
>>> "I think I'll just be over here, in the corner, visualizing peace.”
>>> --Paula Densnow
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
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>>
>>
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