[Peace] [Peace-discuss] AWARE on the Air #487 notes

Fri Jul 26 01:06:44 UTC 2019

It is important we have the conversation, and I understand your reaction to Vltchek, as one who is skeptical, as we should be when too glowing a picture of anything is presented. I think his disgust at US propaganda vilifying China, has led him to over compensate.

When in China, I was privy to one of those villages being displaced, as my employer was constructing a nuclear power plant for the Chinese government, in the vicinity. The people resisted, hating to move, even though the new dwellings were superior to that of their village. Chinese culture requires they stay close to the land of their ancestors, and the tombs, so the dissatisfaction of moving, often has more to do with their ancient cultural practices, than quality of their new accommodations.

It’s unfortunate that dam building is often very necessary infrastructure improvement, and when its done “not for private profit,” as it would be here, but for the good of all, it requires acceptance.

On Jul 25, 2019, at 17:30, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

Karen,

I don’t disagree with what you say, i.e. that China has made tremendous strides to increase the welfare of their people and to develop their country. Also, I know that visitors have been tremendously impressed with the change there in an astoundingly short time. But people reading Vitchek will regard his descriptions as unbelievable propaganda. Had he toned down his description, this could have been avoided. For example, many villages in rural China are still in bad shape. People have been displaced  to less than admirable dwellings, unhappily, so that development could take places. Dam building, for example, had done this. This seems akin to what occured in the USSR in the 30’s.  Pollution has been very bad due to the mass construction of coal fired power plants, even as the authorities try to clean it up, which is admirable. Vitchek needed to leaven his description to admit that China still has far to go to become a nirvana.

I suppose that his description drew forth my skepticism. It needn’t have.

On Jul 25, 2019, at 5:14 PM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Mort

I don’t agree. While China is not Utopia, and they have problems, which they continue to address. If one compares China to the US, they are improving the quality of life for their people daily, while we do the exact opposite.

I lived and worked in Shanghai for nearly two years 2007-2009, my daughter did also, teaching in a college a couple years later, in Suzhou, but I don’t base my opinion on our experiences alone. The many Americans and western nationals there, traveling the nation, were also impressed with that which they had no idea, given the propaganda we experience in the west. I also traveled up country, and experienced local communities, which were in the early stages of development.

If one compares it to Hong Kong, where I lived and worked for seven months in 2000-2001, and watched the city deteriorate as foreign company’s moved to Shanghai, coupled with the high cost of living, lack of housing and job opportunities its no wonder they have so many protests there now. That along with the US CIA funded NGO’s doing their usual false flag bits against China. If in the US we would have had severe crack downs by our government weeks ago.

I saw Shenzhen, in early development, now a thriving, modern city. They had empty city’s all across the nation, in  preparation for the future. The infrastructure of China, unlike ours, is new, modern and the most advanced in the world. Given the rapid development, I have no doubt what Andre sees there is way beyond that which I saw ten years ago.

If one compares China to the US, they are improving the quality of life for their people daily while building the BRI or Silk road across continents, they are not imperialist or hegemonous, and they haven’t invaded another nation militarily since 1979, Vietnam. Compared to our record of interventions, bombings, wars of destruction, it does beg the question, who is the monster to be feared?

China isn’t a utopia, but many expats returning to the US, are shocked by our poor transportation and infrastructure, the homelessness, poverty, plus the high cost of healthcare and pharmaceuticals, etc. To some, like Andre, China does begin to look a lot like Utopia, in comparison.

On Jul 25, 2019, at 14:18, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:

…While Andre goes a little overboard  painting China as Utopia,…

When he goes overboard, as he did in this article , he discredits his message. It was more than a "little overboard". Vitchek has done this kind of commentary before. Poetic license?

On Jul 25, 2019, at 9:43 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

Again, thank you to J.B. Nicholson for placing programs and links on the Peace List, for all to view with ease.

I especially liked Carl’s reading of the Andre Vltchek article related to China. While Andre goes a little overboard  painting China as Utopia, it is a perfect contrast to the usual propaganda received from western media, which includes Al Jazeera. China is making progress in all areas.

I am especially fond of Vltchek, not because his writing is often beautifully poetic, but because he has a very sharp eye. He did an article on Thailand about six years ago, which impressed me, given his very astute analysis unlike so much of the propaganda we usually see in relation to the politics of this US aircraft carrier in SE Asia. He didn’t do what most journalists do, including those who live there, or reside in the region, focus on receiving their information from western embassy personnel, locals whether Thai or expat, or worse yet, the Foreign Correspondents Club.

Having lived in that nation for twenty two years, I knew what we were being told wasn’t real, but was only able to discover upon doing the research and discussions with Thai exiles, residing in the US due to their politics. The problems related to poverty and exploitation have existed in Thailand for decades even century’s, but very few see it for what it is, focusing on palace intrigue and Party politics. Little different than here.

On Jul 24, 2019, at 16:18, J.B. Nicholson via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:

AWARE on the Air #487
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liWRv15sufU

A list of links to items referenced on the show.

Andre Vltchek on "Reason Why the West is Determined to Ignore China’s Success"
https://journal-neo.org/2019/07/17/reason-why-west-is-determined-to-ignore-china-s-success/

Related: "China and Ecological Civilization" John B. Cobb, Jr. in conversation with Andre Vltchek
ISBN 978-6025095450

Susan McWilliams on "The True and Only Lasch: On 'The True and Only Heaven', 25 Years Later"
https://isi.org/intercollegiate-review/the-true-and-only-laschbr-on-ithe-true-and-only-heaven-i-25-years-later/

Which concludes:
In our own time, when the noise of progressivism is louder than
ever—often represented, among other ways, in the understandable but
naive claims that the world has changed fundamentally during the past
twenty-five years—it is a better time than ever to turn and return to
The True and Only Heaven, to dive below the distracting noise of the
moment and consider the greater currents upon which we are carried. In
doing so, we may also ensure that the challenges Lasch set for himself
were not undertaken in vain, and that he may continue to help us tie
present to past.

Nathaniel Hawthorne's "The Celestial Railroad"
https://public.wsu.edu/~campbelld/amlit/celest.htm
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/512 -- Nathaniel Hawthorne's "The Celestial Railroad" in various formats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNyckZdNoQw -- "On Contact with Chris Hedges"; Chris Hedges interviews Kerry-Anne Mendoza

-J
_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace

_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace/attachments/20190726/d353532b/attachment-0001.html>