[Peace] (no subject)
Debra Schrishuhn
deb.pdamerica at gmail.com
Mon Jun 22 12:32:50 UTC 2020
A number of geese overnight on the island at the SE corner of the lake near the Broadway /Park intersection. Others sleep farther west and swim to the east edge of the lake after daybreak.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 22, 2020, at 1:02 AM, Niloofar Shambayati <niloofar.peace at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Cindi,
>
> Thanks for the info. I wonder how long it would be before the judge reviews the case.
>
> I do like to have a rotation schedule. Susan, could you please send a message to the people on your "volunteer" list, asking them to email me with their availability between dusk and dawn for the next couple of days?
>
> Niloofar
>
>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 11:03 PM cynthia adkins <cynthiadkins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> So grateful for the forecast.
>> Awesome on the camera, Karen. I hope we don't need it.
>> I wonder where the geese sleep? Maybe watching tomorrow before dark would.
>> Do we want to try and make a crew rotation schedule. We want to be safe also.
>>
>> Niloofar -
>> I was told they come between 3-5am because they don't want to be seen, photographed or recorded.
>> And to look for strange vehicles or vans around in the park.
>>
>> I live a half a block away from the park.
>>
>> I asked the attorney about filing, he said it wouldn't be seen til Monday if filed over the weekend. But he hopes for something called an ex parte, where it could be immediately halted without even informing the UPD, if the federal judge so grants it. Maybe due to federal protection laws of geese.
>>
>> Cindi
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 9:34 PM Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Due to the forecast of rain tomorrow morning as well as tonight, no need to go to the park tomorrow morning, right?
>>>
>>> But every other morning should be attended.
>>>
>>> I think daybreak begins at 5:24, 25, 26, & 27 for the rest of this week.
>>>
>>> I’m usually up by 6:00, but will plan to be up earlier and at the park by 5:30 am with camera the rest of the week. Assuming I can find it. I’m navigationally handicapped.
>>>
>>> If turning down Park St. off of Broadway, is the park the first street to the right?
>>>
>>> I will look for it tomorrow during the day. I’m okay going alone and filming if the murderers are there.
>>>
>>> Not everyone need be there, it won’t be pleasant, but the more the better.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jun 21, 2020, at 18:58, Niloofar Shambayati <niloofar.peace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Deb! The sound of thunder is music to my ears. I hope it continues.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 8:31 PM Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Good news is that it looks like a rainy night and I bet they want dry weather.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 21, 2020, at 8:20 PM, Niloofar Shambayati <niloofar.peace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're all frustrated that we're here, despite all of our efforts. Bad communication? Not deliberating about whether we should pursue the refuge, rather than focusing on one plan only? I don't know. Anyway, my heart is in my throat now and I hope we can find the answers to the following questions as soon as possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. It's crucial to know if the geese are molting now or not? Susan, could you please take a look around the park before it gets dark to find out what's going on? Any neighbors of yours who could do the same on their side of the park? You can let the rest of us know right away. I'll go if the geese are in danger and take stuff with me to make noise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Ilir or anybody else, how do we know they do the round up when it's dark? Is it a haunch or something that happens in other places?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Deb, Could your friend call the governor now? I know it's too much to ask, but...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Cindi, can't the lawyer file the injunction immediately and not wait till morning? Can UPD go ahead before the judge looks at the case? or does the process is halted as soon as the injunction is filed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe there's still hope
>>>>>> Niloofar
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 7:45 PM cynthia adkins <cynthiadkins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Forwarding Arlene's email. Please see paragraph 5 and her last sentence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want to have people go out, just let me know. I can go out on a minute's notice. Maybe with whistles or other loud things, possibly alert and scare the geese away if they come for them. I don't think it's against the law to make noise, atleast not federal law!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>>>> From: Arlene Steinberg <waterfowlexpert at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 6:07 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: UPDATE REFUGE draft to Jim - to send asap
>>>>>>> To: cynthia adkins <cynthiadkins at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow, lotta stuff here, and I'm not an attorney, nor do I know your state's law. There are a lot of items that I can't give you an answer about because it is too involved in too many details of your own group and inside conversations for me to step in without being directly involved, BUT, but I can tell you this much:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Communication seems to have been a big problem, though a lawyer should KNOW what kind of time he has to file an injunction without anyone telling him. I don't know what fell apart there, possibly too many people leaving it up to too many OTHER people. Something you all need to address going forward, because you will probably be dealing with this issue one way or another for a while. This type of thing should never be left with anyone but the top people - not a guy should have told another person to tell someone else to mention it to the lawyer....!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, the IDNR can stop their own permit and so can the UPD - this has indeed been done in other states.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are definitely grounds for the injunction to stop the permit - the very fact that the parks people did not implement recommended remedies or open discussions with your people (and experts willing to work with you like David Feld) proves that their claim of "no other alternatives" is NOT true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am very concerned that IDNR will try to speed up the killing to early Monday morning, knowing that you plan to file an injunction. This is a very real possibility. I am really not happy that the injunction was not filed Friday afternoon. I would strongly advise someone contact the Governor ASAP, even tonight if possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Couple things with the sanctuary idea: It's not a perfect plan no matter what, for a few reasons. First, you just found out they allow hunting. Not much of a sanctuary if they allow animals to be killed!! What kind of hunting - does it definitely include hunting of geese? These are essentially tame birds and they do not migrate. Putting them in a place that allows hunting is still a slaughter. You can't ensure that the geese will stay in the part that doesn't allow hunting. Plus the problem with allowing the USDA to transport the geese (which you may not be able to avoid, legally) is that they likely WOULD place the geese in the hunting portion.
>>>>>>> Don't know if you have any say over that, even if you go with them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other problem is, who will oversee humane goose population control in a place that is so far away? Will your group have any input in this? (I don't even know if you can, but if you do go this route and you are able to, you should have some discussions about drawing up a legal agreement covering this). If there are no plans to implement humane control measures, and it will be out of your hands, no wonder they are eager to get them - they plan to hunt them. I'm getting less happy about this plan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The most obvious thing to me is, how many geese are you actually talking about anyway - 100? 160? This is NOT a lot of geese - there really is no reason not to just let your group work with the experts and the UPD together and give it a season or two to get under control, which is exactly what other successful communities have done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really don't understand the big stupid rush to kill these geese - there is NOTHING they are going to do that is harmful. There is a really dangerous pandemic going around that is far more problematic than any goose will ever be. For your park people to be going so overboard over a NON-issue is frankly ridiculous. Every one of them ought to be ashamed of themselves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope this helps. I am really concerned they are going to try to kill those geese fast.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Arlene
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 4:35 PM cynthia adkins <cynthiadkins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Arlene,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tsunami still here!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm forwarding a draft of attorney info applicable to tomorrow's injunction filing. Please let me know if you have any suggestions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Friday was the day we learned of both the sanctuary acceptance and the permit was issued. Our attorney was unavailable since 10am due to being in an electronic/skype/zoom? deposition. He wasn't done until 5:30pm. A couple of us went to his office around 1pm, and Susan threw a fit in his lobby insisting he should stop and file the injunction. Susan had to leave around 2:30, and I ended up waiting in his lobby til he was finished at 5:30, and had a meeting with him! Based on what a guy in our group had been telling the atty, he was under the impression UPD was working with us and things along ok!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tho literally hundreds of e-mails have been flying around between our group this past month, we've had major issues in keeping everyone abreast of crucial things, specifically relaying legalities, of all things! It's unusual that 5 of us have hired the attorney. Weeks ago I requested when there are any communications with him, that we all Cc each other, of which I'm the only one that has done so. Sorry if I'm repeating any info. Hopefully we have that worked out as of yesterday. What a mess regarding the unfortunate failure in having not utilized the incredible opportunities of wisdom the attorney from ALDF or Friends the ALDF attorney had contacted me instead of Ilir, but we had both contacted them, not knowing the other had. He mentioned she contacted him, then passed the task to another guy in our group to alert our attorney, after I inquired a couple of weeks ago. The two guys in our group were on top of the legal stuff, I thought! Hopefully the animal rights attorneys can still be of help. I asked Lisa if she knew attorney Kimberly Backman's phone #, (as Ilir only had the basic ALDF email) and explained what was happening with the permit and sanctuary. She sent Tom Linney a text to see if he could help with reconnecting Kim on Monday.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for everything you have done and are doing for our animal friends!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>> Cindi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>>>>> From: Viktoria Ford <viktoriaford at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 10:38 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: draft to Jim - to send asap
>>>>>>>> To: cynthia adkins <cynthiadkins at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Susan Parenti <susanroseparenti at gmail.com>, Ilir Sulejmani <ilirsulej at gmail.com>, Penny Hanna <hanna.penny8 at gmail.com>, niloofar Shambayati <niloofar.peace at gmail.com>, laurence perlman <Lperlman3939 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cindi,
>>>>>>>> This is an enormous refuge. There will likely be a greater threat to the geese from natural predators and they will likely learn quickly where to go. They are smart animals. -v
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 10:31 AM cynthia adkins <cynthiadkins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Awesome Viktoria.
>>>>>>>>> I noticed a Leslie at urbanaparks.org was included previously in this thread. Who is she?
>>>>>>>>> Maybe it was intended to be Larry? I know we are all seeing double by now, especially at 1am!
>>>>>>>>> I removed her in my response, and added Larry.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to send info to Jim, say around 3pm so that he has time to look at it today and prepare for tomorrow's filling.
>>>>>>>>> So please send any suggestions and edits. Niloofar, I took note of yours, too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm sharing what Arlene wrote when I told her about the sanctuary:
>>>>>>>>> "Quick weigh-in - This sounds very promising!!!!!!
>>>>>>>>> You just want to be sure that the places they would relocate the geese and goslings to are not game parks or reserves where they will ultimately be hunted. Michigan has done that and people felt betrayed after they found out. I doubt Feld would be involved in anything like that. Just ask the right questions."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just checked the sanctuary site, was advised to make sure -
>>>>>>>>> https://www.fws.gov/Refuge/Cypress_Creek/about.html
>>>>>>>>> " provide the public with opportunities for environmental education and recreational activities such as hunting, fishing, bird watching and nature photography."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, even if we can use this as an immediate alternative to stop the killing, and buy some time we may be able to shift angles and provide other information to the court later? I don't think we should inform Jim of that, at this time!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suppose at worst, a fighting chance in being hunted, over a mass murder, but it breaks my heart to think we'd be sending them to that 😣 I kinda wondered why such a great environment wouldn't already have geese there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cindi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 12:49 AM Viktoria Ford <viktoriaford at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> My suggestions in blue:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:08 PM cynthia adkins <cynthiadkins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Post meeting with Jim yesterday, I'm writing what happened, and what he asked me to send back. I updated him on the permit, -said he'd kick things into gear- the sanctuary, UPD's willingness, Ben Williams objection, petition #'s, flaws in UPD's program
>>>>>>>>>>> Please don't hesitate to suggest edits or additions anywhere, b4 I send.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As per our Friday 6/19/2020 meeting,
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm first writing to verify the immediate federal filing on Monday 6-22 of our emergency injunction/restraining request, in hopes to be granted an ex parte to immediately stop the killing of the geese, if the judge so grants it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As requested, I'm sending information discussed that you thought valuable in support of the injunction, and recap new developments.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Urbana Park District received their approved depredation permit to kill, (verified thru calls at IDNR.)
>>>>>>>>>>> IDNR Permit applications are required to show 'no other alternatives. The application is now based on 'out of date facts'
>>>>>>>>>>> with the sanctuary alternative acknowledged as acceptable by Tim Bartlett & Derek Liebert, in writing.
>>>>>>>>>>> There were also many other pre-existing alternatives, and numerous methods UPD had failed to implement.
>>>>>>>>>>> Recent assessment of UPD's goose population management program revealed major flaw that undermined their success.
>>>>>>>>>>> If UPD were sincere in their openness to the sanctuary, they still have time to withdraw their request, cancel killing and collaborate.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Friday 6/19/2020 a.m. a sanctuary has given approval of welcoming relocation of the Crystal Lake geese.
>>>>>>>>>>> We also have in writing from Derek Liebert and Tim Batlett, that the sanctuary is an acceptable alternative to the killing.
>>>>>>>>>>> Liz Jones, the refuge manager verified acceptance to https://www.fws.gov/Refuge/Cypress_Creek/wildlife_and_habitat/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>> It is located at the very southern tip of Illinois. It is called Cypress Creek National Wildlife Refuge and attached Cash Wetlands and are 95,000 acres. This is NOT a recreational area so the geese are left to their own devices and not in conflict with agriculture or people.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Ben Williams is Urban Waterfowl Project Manager at the IDNR issuing permits, and is blocking the relocation, claiming it cannot be done in Illinois though it was done in Illinois into the 90's, and stated the only way he would change is if told by his superiors, or the Governor. Ben has been corresponding with Tim & Derek, all along being contrary by making up criteria for relocation, first distance 200+ miles, and not near people, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> * Jim, as per our discussion, please call Ben's superiors' on Monday 6-22, post filing the injunction. (most effective from an attorney.)
>>>>>>>>>>> Colleen Callahan 215-524-6109
>>>>>>>>>>> Director IDNR
>>>>>>>>>>> Mike Wefer 217-557-0475
>>>>>>>>>>> Chief of the IDNR Division of Wildlife Resources where he oversees all management responsibilities of the Division, including
>>>>>>>>>>> the Division of Finance (*conflict of interest!)
>>>>>>>>>>> Friends of geese - did Ben williams give Illinois statutes?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Bill Houlihan, Sen Durbin’s downstate Director is contacting Governor Pritzer on our behalf.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 5. We have over 11,000 signatures on 2 petitions objecting to killing the geese, requesting non-lethal alternatives, as of June 20, 2020.
>>>>>>>>>>> Petition I - 2013
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.change.org/p/derek-liebert-urgent-tell-the-urbana-park-district-upd-to-cancel-their-massacre-of-
>>>>>>>>>>> geese?source_location=topic_page
>>>>>>>>>>> Petition II - 9132
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.idausa.org/campaign/wild-animals-and-habitats/latest-news/slitting-the-necks-of-geese-is-no-harvest-for-charity
>>>>>>>>>>> /?fbclid=IwAR3j9zW95qoRKEb4slKSZS7oeN9eoslZDYZ3Jb2v9I1puxLJH6bRGd3Ti3Y
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 6. Jim Monday 6-22 - We ask that you please contact one or both of these animal rights attorneys with the national organizations and consult with one of them as soon as possible. They are familiar and invaluable regarding federal laws that may override state policies. Both are assigned/approved to help us by national animal rights legal organizations and departments, both pro bono. This is quite a privilege to have access to their help, as thousands of people go to them requesting their assistance.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Courtney McVean - associate Attorney of Friends of Animals in Colorado.720-949-7791 courtney.mcvean at friendsofanimals.org
>>>>>>>>>>> I previously forwarded her e-mail indicating availability and her contact info via email on June 11th.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Kimberly Backman of Animal Legal defense Fund - still tracking down and I'll get this info b4 sending to Jim.. and remove yellow & notes. Jim, I believe you've previously been supplied with Kim's contact information by Larry or Ilir. *Friends of Geese - No direct info yet. Also NEWS, Lisa at IDA texted Tom Linney at ALDF, so hopefully it will help with reconnecting asap.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 7. Regional implementation of non-lethal population management - GeesePeace identified & notified the UPD's of program flaw. State flaw: that geese come from surrounding areas. A regional problem exists and not soley a Crystal Lake Park problem. Geese come into CLP daily from their nesting areas surround the park...
>>>>>>>>>>> Dedicated, local advocacy group, 'Friends of the Geese' consulted with numerous national organizations, discovering the many well-proven, non-lethal population management methods, and can provide extensive documentation in which cities are successful. St. Louis GeesePeace, (chapter of the national organization) has managed their goose successfully for 19 years through non-lethal methods. They have offered to come here at no cost to train and certify the soon to be formed GeesePeace Urbana chapter. Additionally, the National Geesepeace Director David Feld has also offered large-scale assistance, but UPD has declined such assistance, and instead pursues unnecessary and brutal killing. Local 'Friends of Geese' have had numerous meetings with UPD officials Derek Liebert and Tim bartlett. offering a great many well-documented solutions regarding any and all goose-related challenges, including:
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Clean-up 2. Nest/egg management/population stabilization 3. Habitat Modification/Site aversion - (less geese-friendly)
>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Creating Tolerance Zones - (acceptable areas within the park for the geese) to both keep the geese manageable and to keep Crystal Lake Park pleasant for its users. 5. Education Outreach - No feeding of wildlife/ feeding preferred/limited areas, and coexistence in harmony with humans. .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ??WE ASK THE URBANA PARK DISTRICT TO CANCEL/PUT A STAY ON THE CULL OF THE GEESE, OTHERWISE PLANNED THIS WEEK OF 6/22/2020?? *Friends - Do we want something like this included?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 'Friends' FOG! - ant other key things you'd like added on, possibly helpful for Jim to know/inform the judge?
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure I forgot a lot more pertinent details.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Additional facts:
>>>>>>>>>>> ? Viktoria - email words of Derek and Tim happy to go along w the sanctuary? sent separately
>>>>>>>>>>> ? Ben Williams reasoning no transporting? Illinois statute? Copy/paste his statement?
>>>>>>>>>>> Other geese will move in Ilir? your statements?
>>>>>>>>>>> Philip & Megan's writing?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> what else?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ?? National organizations have provided extensive, scientific documentation from highly-respected researchers debunk myths and misinformation regarding water polluting or transmitting disease.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Penny, I borrowed from your letter to Derek on #7
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Questions:
>>>>>>>>>>> Penny wrote a lot of great questions. Will Larry ask about all of them? Would you any added here in writing here?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> what else?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> just fyi
>>>>>>>>>>> p.s. In recent e-mails Tim wrote to me, (I forwarded) Tim Bartlett made it quite clear to me he wasn't flexible,and seemed gleeful to inform me he would be working with Champaign right away! That was right before the sanctuary came available.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * I'd like to know Ben Williams quota on population numbers to acreage and 'overpopulation.' There are about 95,000 acres at the Cypress Creek Wetlands and Cache Wetlands. This refuge is not populated or a recreational areas, nor agricultural. The geese will not be a nuisance.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please let me know your thoughts, so I can send it to Jim asap.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cindi
>>>
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