From karenaram at hotmail.com Fri May 1 01:21:36 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 18:21:36 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Workers striking May 1st. at Amazon, Whole Foods, Walmart, Target, FedEx don't cross any picket lines, support the workers. References: Message-ID: >> >> Subject: Workers striking May 1st. at Amazon, Whole Foods, Walmart, Target, FedEx don't cross any picket lines, support the workers. >> >> "Workers at Amazon, Whole Foods, Instacart, Walmart, FedEx, Target, and Shipt say they will walk off the job on May 1 to protest their employers? failure to provide basic protections for frontline workers who are risking and losing their lives at work. Meanwhile, these same companies are making record profits... 'What I?ve seen in the past two months, I?ve never seen before. It?s a mass awakening of workers.'" #generalstrike2020 #essentialworkersday >> (P.S. Also on May 1, #rentstrike #cancelrent : https://actionnetwork.org/forms/mayday-cantpay ) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Fri May 1 08:49:18 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 03:49:18 -0500 Subject: [Peace] On the occasion of the end of the war in Vietnam, 30 April 1975 Message-ID: https://will.illinois.edu/vietnam/story/oral-history-interview-timothy-kendall From karenaram at hotmail.com Fri May 1 12:14:11 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 05:14:11 -0700 Subject: [Peace] #GENERALSTRIKE2020: HOW TO PARTICIPATE ON THE MAY DAY LAUNCH Message-ID: #GENERALSTRIKE2020: HOW TO PARTICIPATE ON THE MAY DAY LAUNCH By Popular Resistance. April 30, 2020 | RESIST! , Above photo: Freedom Plaza, 2011. On May Day, the first of May, the #GeneralStrike2020 (and beyond) campaign launches across the country. Learn more about the overall campaign in our most recent newsletter, ?The Era of Mass Strikes Begins On May 1; First Day of General Strike Campaign .? This prolonged and broad campaign will organize around a list of basic demands, as outlined here . Not on the list, but included is the demand to save the US Postal Service. The campaign will follow a three-prong strategy ? resistance through noncompliance, mutual aid and building alternative systems in our communities rooted in cooperation, solidarity and participatory democracy. On May Day and extending through the weekend, there will be many activities. Read through and decide how you can best participate in the actions. There is something for everyone to do. Be creative! Worker Strikes Workers at Amazon, Whole Foods, Fedex, Target, Instacart and more are planning to walk off the job in a call for protection of their health and hazard pay. If you work at a facility that is striking, take photos and share them on social media or email them to info at popularresistance.org so we can share them. Remember to include basic details about where you are, what is going on and how people can support you. If you don?t work at a striking facility but you do work for a corporation that exploits its workers and arent ready to strike, consider slowing down your work of using ?work to rule? ? following the rules in such detail that it slows the work. You can also stop working for an hour or for half a day or set up a meeting with other workers to talk about what you can do in the future. If you are not working, you can show up at one of the targets of the strike and hold a sign in solidarity with the workers. Bring some friends. Bring a car caravan of friends with signs on your cars. Remember to respect physical distancing, wear a face mask (even a bandanna or scarf) and practice good hygiene. You could give personal protective equipment to workers (masks, hand sanitizer or cleaning wipes) or notes of solidarity to the workers. If you can?t do any of that, then raise awareness of what is going on by talking about it with your family and friends or putting signs of solidarity on your windows. See below for more ideas. Rent Strikes People around the country are calling for rent to be canceled until the pandemic is over. They are targeting large corporations that own large amounts of properties. If you are in that situation, talk to your neighbors about not paying your rent. Some people who can pay their rent are withholding payment in solidarity with their neighbors who can?t. Everyone can call their local or state government or Members of Congress and urge them to place a moratorium on rent and stop evictions. People must be protected until the pandemic is over and they are on solid financial footing. Follow #CancelTheRent on social media. Consumer Strikes An easy action for all of us to take is to buy nothing on May Day and throughout the weekend (unless of course, it is an urgent need). Don?t shop in stores or online. Student Strikes College students are going on strike by refusing to pay tuition or register or attend classes over the ways the universities failed to protect them by closing student housing and dining halls. Students lost their jobs, housing and food security. Look around to see if students at a university near you are going on strike. Debt Strikes People are refusing to pay their student debt. You can learn more about that effort at StrikeDebt.org and DebtCollective.org . People are also refusing to pay water, electric and other bills until the crisis is over. Call your legislators and tell them to cancel student debt and to place a moratorium on the shutoff of services such as water and power. Boycott Corporate Meat Meatpackers are joining with farmers and environmentalists to take on the giant agriculture industry that exploits workers, strangles small farmers and pollutes the land, air and water. Many meatpackers are planning to strike. They ask you to boycott (don?t buy) eat from large corporations like Tysons and Smithfield Farms. They are callling it Meatless May. Turn to your local farmers if you require meat products or try vegetarian dishes. Save The US Postal Service The USPS is struggling because of reduced business during the pandemic but Congress and the White House refuse to help. We may lose the USPS by this summer if nothing is done. This is exactly what big corporations like UPS and Fedex want so they can privatize mail delivery and make more profits. Tell Congress to bail out the USPS. Visit APWU.org you sign the letter to Congress and learn more. On May Day (and every day), let your postal carrier know you care about them. Solidarity Actions On May Day, the Peoples Strike coalition is holding a 24-hour broadcast from 12 am to midnight to cover what is happening. You will find that on their Facebook Page or website . Watch and share it with your friends by emailing them about it or sharing it on social media. If you have Facebook, you can share the live stream to your own page. Look for where it says ?share? (usually underneath or to the right of the video). Wear red on May Day and share of a photo of you holding a sign either by sending it to us at info at popularresistance.org or sharing it on social media. Tag us @PopResistance so we can share it too. Put signs on your windows or in your yard supporting the General Strike and the various demands that are most important to you. Call your local media to tell them what is going on and/or call your legislators and tell them about the demands and why you support them. Be the media ? Write a blog about the General Strike or a letter to your local paper, take photos or videos of what is happening in your community. Tell any friends or family you speak with on Friday and over the weekend about the General Strike campaign that is starting. Share the word on social media ? If you use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or any other social media platform, look for posts/tweets about the General Strike and share them and/or create your own. Here are hashtags that will be used: #GeneralStrike2020 #MayDay2020 #CoronaStrike #PeoplesStrike #StrikeSelfie #RedForEd #MutualAid #RentStrike #WeDecide #StopShopping #SchoolsOut #NoBorders #ReleaseThePrisoners #NoShopping #NoWork #NoRent #NoPrisons #NoSchool Ongoing Actions This campaign will begin on May Day and continue for possibly years. There will be nationwide actions on the first of each month and targeted actions in between. All of the above actions are connected through this campaign. Other parts of the strategy are building mutual aid networks and building alternative systems. Mutual Aid ? This is as simple as helping your neighbors in tough ties by providing food medicines, running errands or other forms of support. You can learn more about mutual aid at MutualAidDisasterRelief.org . Look for mutual aid efforts in your community and join them or start one. It is easiest to start one through existing groups such as community associations, churches or other organizations. Mutual aid will be essential to support each other as we build power in this campaign. Alternative Systems ? People around the world are building ways of organizing our societies based on solidarity, cooperation and participatory democracy. You can learn more about these efforts on our Resource Page, the Create section of our website and the New Economy tag . Start by joining a local group working on these efforts or start one in your community. We will have speakers on future calls to talk about this. You could start simply by gathering friends and neighbors and talking about what you need in your community and how to meet that need. Maybe it is a tool sharing effort or a childcare cooperative or a community garden. Monthly Calls ? We will hold monthly calls for educating ourselves, sharing information and planning how to support the monthly actions. Register for those alls at bit.ly/MayDayMeeting . As we wrote above, there is something for everyone to do in the General Strike campaign. Think about what talents and skills you have and how you can best use them to participate. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Fri May 1 20:43:33 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 13:43:33 -0700 Subject: [Peace] If this is true, I fell for it, but this makes sense..... Message-ID: Print Leaflet Feedback Share ? Democrats, unions set trap for workers with phony May Day Amazon strike By the International Amazon Workers Voice 1 May 2020 In recent days, the corporate media has announced that Amazon, Whole Foods and Target workers will strike against their employers today, May 1. There is doubtless a powerful fighting mood among workers who are being forced to work at these highly profitable corporations under life-threatening conditions, without protective equipment or paid time off work. Hundreds of thousands want a real fight against the companies. But if this were a genuine strike, workers in these industries would have been involved in planning and organizing the action. On the contrary, the World Socialist Web Site and International Amazon Workers Voice spoke to dozens of Amazon and logistics workers, none of whom had heard of or had any say in planning this protest, which appers to be a stunt. Jesse Jackson speaks Wednesday, May 30, 2018, before attending Amazon.com's annual meeting of shareholders in Seattle. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren) The attitude of most workers was summarized by a Baltimore Amazon worker, who told the International Amazon Workers Voice: ?I asked my fellow Amazonians about the May Day walkout, but none of them had even heard about it.? Another Amazon worker said, ?It?s bad enough that we are treated like puppets on a string while we are inside the building. It is worse that we are being manipulated and pounced on? by those involved in the so-called strike. ?Workers will be fired immediately. It makes you wonder if these groups are actually hired by the company to weed out the ?troublemakers.?? Many workers repeated these concerns. If this were a genuine strike, the warehouses would be buzzing with activity and heated debate. Workers from major plants across the country would be democratically discussing the demands that must be raised. Strikers would be using social media to organize pickets, contact workers, elect captains and strike committees, and prepare for mass action. As the sun rose on May 1, workers would be waking up with the confidence and knowledge that their own organizations were preparing to mobilize hundreds of thousands to do battle with the world?s most powerful corporations. The May 1 action is, in reality, a trick aimed at blocking the growing opposition among retail, warehouse and gig workers over abysmal health and safety conditions amid the coronavirus pandemic. Without common mass action, workers protesting in isolation will face firings and retribution. This dangerous provocation is aimed at creating a mood of isolation and helplessness among workers. It is a ploy by the class enemy. Workers should exercise extreme caution. It is not entirely clear how the May 1 event was announced, though word spread on Twitter that Democratic Party operative and former Democratic candidate for president, Jesse Jackson, held a phone call with a small number of groups last week. The announcement was promoted in The Intercept, a web site with close ties to the Democratic Party, and was soon thereafter picked up by the national news media. Various trade unions, including the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW), then proclaimed their support for the protest?a sure sign that nothing good can come of it. The role of Jackson and the Democratic Party should give workers pause. For decades, Jackson has been the ?kiss of death? of protest movements, which always dissipate after he shows up. The Democratic Party has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos in recent years. Bezos owns the Washington Post, which is also closely affiliated with the Democratic Party. The trade unions have never had anything to do with the struggles of Amazon workers. At industries across the US, the trade unions have been forcing workers back to work under life-threatening conditions. The May 1 protest stunt was announced because the ruling class is terrified of growing opposition among workers in every industry and wants to bring this emerging movement under its control. In March and April, the US alone witnessed 150 strikes and protests organized by workers opposed to the absence of adequate precautions necessary to protect them against contracting the deadly virus. Walkouts led by the workers themselves have taken place among autoworkers, nurses, Amazon workers, Instacart workers, and meatpacking workers. The latter even indicated that they would refuse a ?back to work? order invoked by President Trump this week after 20 meatpacking workers died in recent weeks due to the disease. The growing upsurge of working-class struggle is an international phenomenon. Mass protests and strikes have taken place in Italy, France, Bangladesh, and along the US-Mexico border, where auto parts workers at sweatshop maquiladora factories have walked out in large numbers. In each country, the trade unions have scrambled to order workers back on the job, despite the risk of death. Corporations along the US-Mexico border have gone so far as to lock workers in the plants to prevent them from walking out. Dozens have been killed, and local hospitals are filling up with sick workers. If workers are to protect their lives and the lives of their loved ones on the job, the necessary changes will not come through protests organized by Democratic Party politicians, trade union bureaucrats and opportunists looking for a new career path. The companies are backed by the governments, the police, the media and the courts. But workers can fight back if they have their own organizations to combat these powerful but hated institutions. They should form independent rank-and-file safety committees in every workplace, independent of the unions and both parties of big business, to organize and coordinate action across all plants and appeal to workers in every industry internationally. These committees should demand no return to work at nonessential industries, while workers engaged in work that is essential to the functioning of society must be given the right to control the health and safety of their own facilities. All those who are laid off or fired must be given full income and benefits. Ultimately, these goals require the reorganization of the world economy along socialist principles, i.e., for public need and not private profit. Strikes will be necessary, but if they are to effect change, they must be organized?well-organized?by the workers themselves. They must be capable of mobilizing a critical mass of workers so that those who are targeted for retribution can be defended by the workers en masse. This requires socialist political leadership. One New Jersey Amazon worker told the International Amazon Workers Voice: ?The Democrats cannot be trusted; they are the problem as much as the free market-loving conservatives. Workers need leadership because many feel alone right now.? Real social struggle does not take place through stunts set up from above. It means harnessing the tremendous potential power of the international working class, regardless of race or nationality, in a common struggle against the world?s most powerful corporations. WSWS.ORG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Fri May 1 21:11:42 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 14:11:42 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: US militarization of Africa References: Message-ID: > > Internal documents from the US military?s Africa Command (Africom) reveal ambitious plans to extend and reinforce a network of low-profile military bases and outposts across the continent. The files detail more than $330-million of spending, including a list of ?prioritised? military construction projects planned to be carried out from 2021 to 2025. This is designated for infrastructure investments on US bases stretching across Africa. The files also suggest that Africom?s long-term planning extends for up to 20 years. > > The formerly secret documents, issued in October 2018, detail 12 construction projects planned for four US outposts in three countries ? Djibouti , Kenya and Niger ? that have long been integral to US counterterrorism and counter-violent extremist missions in Africa, suggesting these efforts will continue in the years ahead. > > Africom spokesperson John Manley told the Mail & Guardian through email that the projects detailed in the plans ?continue on course and are in various stages of planning and/or execution?. > > ?The plans, whether they materialise or not, seem to indicate that the Pentagon is interested in expanding its infrastructure in Africa, for drone ISR [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance] and drone warfare, as well as training camps and lily-pad bases for increasing the US capacity to project force in key regions, the Horn of Africa, East Africa and the Sahel,? said Salih Booker, the president and chief executive of the Center for International Policy in Washington DC. > > US priorities may change after the presidential election in November, and it is also too soon to know what effects the coronavirus pandemic may have on the US military?s long-term agenda. The US?s top generals in Africa are, nonetheless, touting an enduring presence here. ?The bottom line is, the United States is not walking away from Africa. We?re committed and we remain engaged,? said US Army Major General Roger Cloutier, the commander of US Army Africa, on a February teleconference with the M&G and other media outlets. > > During a separate conference call, US Air Force Brigadier General Dagvin Anderson, the head of Special Operations Command Africa, told reporters, ?I don?t see any signs that we?re leaving Africa, and there?s no decision that?s been made by the Secretary [of Defence] yet as to what that footprint will be.? > > The network of bases > > The Pentagon publicly claims that the US has almost no physical footprint in Africa. ?[W]e have one base on the continent,? Pentagon spokesperson Candice Tresch wrote in an email to the M&G, referring to Camp Lemonnier in Djibouti. > > But on any given day, about 6 000 US troops operate from some of the 27 outposts scattered across the northern tier of Africa . These include 15 ?enduring locations? and 12 less permanent ?contingency locations?, with the highest concentrations in the Sahel and the Horn of Africa. ?Strategic access to Africa, its airspace, and its surrounding waters is vital to US national security,? General Stephen Townsend, the commander of Africom, told the US Senate armed services committee in late January. > > The largest number of US bases on the continent can be found in Niger. Much of the world first became aware of US military operations there in October 2017, after the Islamic State ambushed US troops near the village of Tongo Tongo, killing four US soldiers and wounding two others. The troops who were killed were working in the town of Oullam with a larger Nigerien force under the umbrella of Operation Juniper Shield, a wide-ranging counterterrorism effort in northwest Africa. > > > Today, Juniper Shield continues: about 800 troops operate from Niger and Oullam is one of six US outposts in the only country in West Africa with two ?enduring? US bases. One of them, Agadez, is the US?s key regional hub for air operations. After years of construction delays, US drones have begun flying both surveillance and armed missions from Agadez?s Air Base 201 . > > Nevertheless, two construction projects in Agadez are slated for 2021 and 2022. Together, they will dramatically increase the base?s fuel-storage capacity and ?fuel-distribution infrastructure? at ISR [[intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance] and strategic airlift parking? areas, as well as provide better roadways on the expanding outpost. The documents, obtained by the M&G through the US Freedom of Information Act, note that ?CT/CVEO [counterterrorism/counter violent extremist operations] is considered an enduring [department of Defence] effort for the next 10 to 20 years; and Niger is geographically positioned to enable support to multiple? efforts integral to Africom?s missions. > > Djibouti is home to the crown jewel of US bases on the continent, Camp Lemonnier, a former French Foreign Legion outpost and the home, since 2003 , of the US?s Combined Joint Task Force ? Horn of Africa. Lemmonier has long been a key hub for counterterrorism operations in Yemen and Somalia and it hosts about 4 000 US and allied personnel with housing requirements slated to grow to 4 685 by 2025, according to the Africom documents. This would support missions by special operations forces in the Middle East and troops involved in other regional operations. > > Since the US began operating there, Lemonnier has expanded from 88 acres to nearly 600 acres and is the site of the bulk of Africom?s prioritised construction for the next five years, including seven projects totaling more than $286-million. Additionally, construction of an operations facility for the commandos of Special Operations Forward ? East at that base is currently on hold but, if reinstated, it would add another $35.7-million to the US taxpayers? tab in the years ahead. > > In 2013, the Pentagon moved its fleet of armed drones from Lemonnier to a lower-profile airstrip about 10km away. Since then, Chabelley Airfield has gone on to serve as an integral base for missions in Africa and the Middle East , including the drone war against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria . Together with Lemonnier, Chabelley has served a base for Jupiter Garret, the codename of an operation run by Joint Special Operations Command ? the secretive organisation that controls the navy?s elite Seal Team Six and the army?s Delta Force ? aimed at high-value targets in Somalia. > > And just as at Lemonnier, the US has dug in for the long haul at this satellite outpost, with several million dollars in construction slated for 2024. The Africom documents note that the US?s original 2012 agreement for the use of Chabelley runs until May 2024 with an option to ?extend for 10 years without renegotiation for a total duration of 20 years?. > > Nearly $34-million is also slated to be spent at the US outpost in Manda Bay, Kenya, which was the site of a deadly attack by Somali militant group al-Shabab in January this year. The proposed additions include enhancements to the airfield?s runway, as well as improvements to housing, latrines and dining facilities to accommodate 325 personnel. > > > (John McCann/M&G) > ?What does the AU think?? > > Africom?s extensive planning appears to put it at odds with US Defence Secretary Mark Esper, who is reportedly considering proposals for a major reduction ? or even a complete withdrawal ? of US forces from West Africa . > > Meanwhile Townsend, Africom?s chief, continues to make the case for his command ? stressing its efficiencies, and dire consequences in the case of a withdrawal. ?US Africa Command is diligently working to make our operations even more efficient and adjusting our posture and activities to ensure US strategic access for today and tomorrow,? he told the Senate armed services committee in January. > ?Violent extremist organisations will be able to grow unchecked, some will ultimately threaten the homeland, and we will lose opportunities for increased trade and investments with some of the fastest-growing economies in the world.? > > Salih Booker of the Center for International Policy had a different take, and his own questions for Africom. ?What do the people of these three countries know and think about these plans?? he asked, ?And what do the African Union ? which South Africa currently chairs ? and the regional economic communities think about these plans?? > > Nick Turse is a journalist and the author of Next Time They?ll Come to Count the Dead: War and Survival in South Sudan and Tomorrow?s Battlefield: US Proxy Wars and Secret Ops in Africa. > > All our essential coronavirus coverage is free for all readers. To see more, visit our hub > > Nick Turse > Nick Turse works from NYC. Investigative reporter. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sat May 2 12:07:04 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 07:07:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace] 'A Nation Awakes From Slumber' - RPI May 1st Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94789662-3D36-4390-87CC-B073B30F0D27@newsfromneptune.com> The federal government - the Congress and the president - must immediately provide a universal basic income at the level of a living wage. Inequities - grants to people who don?t need it - can be recouped in next year's income taxes. But the need is now. Congress & the president must act. > On May 1, 2020, at 7:45 PM, Daniel McAdams/RPI wrote: > > View this email in your browser > > > Anti-Lockdown Protest in Madison, WI > > The Rule of the CoronaTyrants is Coming to an End > > Dear Friends of the Ron Paul Institute: > > I mentioned in my last update that the Ron Paul Liberty Report viewer and subscriber numbers have exploded since we've been regularly covering the coronavirus lockdown with a skeptical eye. Dr. Paul's "The Coronavirus Hoax" article on March 16th set off a wave of skepticism over the authoritarian response at every level of government to the "pandemic" panic that ultimately has shut down most of the United States and brought us to levels of unemployment not seen since the Great Depression. > > More than thirty million Americans have filed for unemployment because either federal, state, or local governments decided that their work was not "essential." Liquor stores and big-box chain supermarts are deemed "essential," while mom and pop shops and dining establishments have been forcibly shut down under pain of arrest, steep fine, and even cancellation of business license. > > Many of those who most vociferously urge everyone to "stay home" - perhaps not surprisingly - have been able to retain their income, be it from "working from home" in government or other white collar jobs, social security, pensions, or other means. > > As Professor Denis Rancourt so eloquently pointed out in an episode of the Liberty Report this week: > > One of the reasons this [lockdown] is working is because the workers in the professional classes are just happy to get away from the office. They haven't lost their jobs, and they're still salaried, and they're able to stay at home with the kids and do family activities. It's like a big holiday for them. So one of the sources for compliance is that it's been such a nice family holiday for a lot of professional class workers. > Meanwhile, those whose livelihoods and very existence depend on going to a physical job or being open for business are becoming increasingly desperate. This week we highlighted the plight of a local businesswoman, Shauntae Johnston, owner of the Bad "S" Icehouse in Oyster Creek, TX, who wrote on her Facebook page that she would open her establishment tomorrow, May 2nd - with outside tables only and at the appropriate distance from each other - because her business is her life's work into which she has poured her life savings, and that she has written her last check from an account that is now completely depleted. Ms. Johnston has since been served a "cease and desist" letter from the local authorities, warning her that if she dares do business (with willing customers) she will be arrested. > > It's no surprise, then, that anger at the new authoritarians who have literally snatched the food from the mouths of babes has reached such a pitch that there literally is no telling where it may lead. As I write this on Friday afternoon, California has erupted in mass protest from Sacramento to Huntington Beach, furious at Governor Gavin Newsom's seemingly rash and petulant executive order to close all beaches in the state because he was furious that Californians ignored his previous order to stay away from the beaches. In video from the Sacramento protest a woman can be heard yelling plaintively that she is the mother of a six year old child and must be able to get back to work. The police are dressed like military officers facing an Iraqi insurrection, rather than public servants protecting civilians according to the Constitution which they swore to defend. > > While monsters like Newsom scream and pound their fists on the table over the public ignoring their edicts consigning constituents to literal starvation, citizens - with lots of time on their hands - are finding their voices and connecting with others who have done the same. > > Newsom outlawed protest. Californians again laughed in his face. > > As tyrannical as Newsom is, he's a piker compared to Gretchen "Pick Me For VP!" Whitmer, the wannabe dictator of Michigan. When the Michigan legislature rejected the idea of keeping Michigan shut down for another month, Gretchen stamped her feet and screamed "deus vult!" > > Michigan residents had had enough and for at least the second major time trekked to the state capital building to demand a redress of their grievances. This time they were demonstrably more defiant of Gretchen's disdain, storming into the capital building fully armed and furious. > > While I would dispute the utility of making this resistance to state tyranny an armed resistance - it gives unbelievable ammo to those who seek to repulse the silent majority with claims that it's just a bunch of "right wing extremists" - there is no denying their sincerity or determination. > > The "Stalin of the Week" award, then, must go to Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer, who scoffed at the people, scoffed at their elected representatives, and decided to rule according to her own personal whim. > > But there are also dishonorable mentions when it comes to the fight for liberty. Let's be clear about one thing: what we find ourselves in at present is no theoretical struggle for libertarian ideals. We are in, as our Secretary of State might say, a "live exercise" here. We have witnessed in these past four weeks an assault on the US Constitution and on our civil liberties that has not been seen perhaps in 100 years. Perhaps ever. Government officials - from the federal to the city level - have succeeded in completely obliterating our First Amendment and a few others. Petty tyrants tell us we must starve because of a virus. In the meantime they have no clue what they are doing. South Dakota has not shut down and has far less death than the states that have gone full-tilt totalitarian. > > But I will be honest with you: even as we are face-to-face with a frontal assault on our liberties, so many organizations who have been set up to fight for same liberties have gone incredibly squishy when it comes to an actual attack. Yeah, it's fine to scribble endless articles about how we need to defend our liberties. But when those liberties are actually - in real time - under attack there has been a shameful silence from many organizations I've come to appreciate and trust. > > This is the great divide. If you call yourself a libertarian or civil libertarian organization and you in any way make excuses for the totalitarian government lockdown you are done. If you call for a "responsible" opening, meaning, as Dr. Paul said recently on a broadcast, that a mugger attacks and robs you and while he is beating you you ask him to slow down, you are done. Hang up your spurs and return your donor money. You've failed. > > I won't name names. If you're not out front actively decrying this actual, violent assault in no uncertain terms without pulling any punches you have failed. > > Meanwhile, we do have some heroes. The Mises Institute has been absolutely on fire with brilliant articles against this totalitarian takeover. Lew Rockwell has been an inspiration. Robert Wenzel of Target Liberty has been an island of sanity. Judge Napolitano has been a beacon. There are others, to be sure. But there have been many disappointments as well. How many who never trust a single word the US government says when it comes to the "need" to bomb Syria or sanction Iran have shamefully rolled over when a 50 year government bureaucrat with a track record that would make Bill Kristol blush tells us we can't have our Constitution back until Bill Gates forcibly injects us with his vaccine? Many friendships have ended due to this blind faith in the same government they condemn on other fronts. > > Whatever the case, things are coming to a head. As our good friend Gerald Celenteoften says, when you've lost everything and you have nothing to lose...you lose it! > > Be safe in the face of this horrible assault. The virus is a danger, but we are facing totalitarianism and economic collapse. Don't give in to fear! > Sincerely yours, > > Daniel McAdams > Executive Director > Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity > > > > > > Bitcoin: > > 3GBe2oTXNxa7vUjRKAz6B2YNNo7ADyppq9 > > Selected Ron Paul Institute Recent Publications > > Why Foreign Interventionism? > by Jacob Hornberger > > US-Backed Forces Killed Twice as Many Children as Taliban and ISIS Did During 1st Quarter of 2020 > by Andrea Germanos > > Food Crisis Coming - Should We Blame Coronavirus? > by Daniel McAdams > > Covid-19 gives cover for US-led coalition to keep up pressure on Syria > by Vanessa Beeley > > The Massive Inflatable Crisis That is COVID-19 > by Tony Cartalucci > > Will Coronavirus Kill - Or Embolden - Neocon Foreign Policy? > by Daniel McAdams > > Do Lockdowns Save Many Lives? In Most Places, the Data Say No > by T.J. Rodgers > > Covid-19 and The Red Dawn Emails > by Thierry Meyssan > > Donald J. Trump: Patient Zero of Lockdown Nation?s Covid Hysteria > by David Stockman > > Will It Take Food Shortages to End Support for the Shutdown? > by Jeff Deist > > How Will History Treat The Coronavirus Lockdown? With Prof. Denis Rancourt > by Daniel McAdams > > Resistance Strengthening: Small Business Defying Coronavirus Lockdown > by Daniel McAdams > > New Anti-China Propaganda Uses Russiagate Playbook > by Dave DeCamp > > Narrative Managers Argue China-Like Internet Censorship Is Needed > by Caitlin Johnstone > > Next in Coronavirus Tyranny: Forced Vaccinations and 'Digital Certificates' > by Ron Paul > > New Libertarian Presidential Candidate has Ten-Minute MSNBC Interview about Why He is Running, Says Nothing Libertarian > by Adam Dick > > Mayor Defies State?s Coronavirus Shutdown > by Adam Dick > > The New Rules of Golf in the USAR (Union of Soviet American Republics) > by Thomas DiLorenzo > > Cato Institute Editorial: The Coronavirus Crackdown is Libertarian > by Adam Dick > > My Coronavirus Crackdown Predictions > by Adam Dick > Copyright ? 2020 The Ron Paul Institute, All rights reserved. > You are receiving this message because you have subscribed to Ron Paul/FREE. > Our mailing address is: > 833 W. Plantation Dr., Clute, TX 77531 > > unsubscribe from this list update subscription preferences > From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Wed May 6 23:48:38 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 18:48:38 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Please donate to our sweet girl, Mika--$10 would be much appreciated Message-ID: Dear friends---here is Mika, a sweet sweet 'girl' who has been living happily in Urbana, in the area around my house. She's been a real gift to her human friends, but now has severe mouth pain, can't eat, and has become really weak and sick. Can you help? Her human friends have already spent more money than they have on finding a treatment, and they are besides themselves with worry. Any financial help you can give, we would really appreciate. Mika looks at you! Please follow this link to our GoFundMe page. [image: image.png] -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkb3 at icloud.com Thu May 7 01:31:40 2020 From: mkb3 at icloud.com (Morton K. Brussel) Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 20:31:40 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions Message-ID: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> By Paul Jay. https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Thu May 7 11:39:43 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 06:39:43 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> Message-ID: Thanks for sharing this insightful and thought-provoking piece. Deb On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:55 PM Morton K. Brussel via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > By Paul Jay. > > > https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu May 7 14:14:36 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 07:14:36 -0700 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> Message-ID: Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. > On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace wrote: > > By Paul Jay. > > https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkb3 at icloud.com Thu May 7 16:38:05 2020 From: mkb3 at icloud.com (Morton K. Brussel) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 11:38:05 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> Message-ID: You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. > On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: > > Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? > > They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. > > This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. > > The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? > > is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. > > Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. > > > > > > > >> On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace > wrote: >> >> By Paul Jay. >> >> https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Thu May 7 18:05:54 2020 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 13:05:54 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> Message-ID: <007801d6249a$2927dc50$7b7794f0$@comcast.net> Mort, The President of the United States does NOTHING without the support of the majority of the U.S. corporate oligarchy. IF Fascism comes to the U.S., it will only happen if that is what a majority of the corporate ruling class wants, and that can happen under Biden just as easily as Trump. The proof is in the pudding in regards to how ineffective this failed strategy of lesser evil voting has been for the last 30 years. More often than not, the lesser evil is the more EFFECTIVE evil. A Republican like Bob Dole and H.W. Bush during the 1990?s would never have been able to get all of the horrible laws passed that Bill Clinton did. Like NAFTA, the racist crime bill, the destruction of aid to families with dependent children, the telecommunications act, the destabilization and destruction of Yugoslavia, and last but not least, the repeal of the Glass Stiegel Act. I could provide an even longer list for Obama. NOTHING will change for the better in this country until we have a REAL opposition party which takes no corporate money and has a movement behind it. The failure of Bernie Sanders ( who I supported ) is proof that the corporate oligarchy will NEVER allow change for the better to happen within the Democratic party. And in addition, the Democratic party is corrupting. Look at how fast AOC, Rashid Taibi, Ro Khana, and even TUlsi Gabbard and Ihlan Omar, and Bernie Sanders folded and went along with the corporate agenda with this recent SIX TRILLION DOLLAR corporate robbery. Not to mention Sanders refusing to call out and challenge the massive ELECTION FRAUD used against him on Super Tuesday and how fast he folded up his campaign and supported Biden. All have bent the knee to the corporate oligarchy through it?s surrogate the DNC. We need a REAL opposition and a REAL resistance, NOT two corporate parties pretending to be enemies and then wondering why things continue to get worse ( a 40 year decline since 1980 ) and nothing changes for the better. And as Karen said, there is a storm of social unrest coming, and if people like us do not offer solutions ( as opposed to telling them to vote for more Democrats who are as mush the reason for the problems we have as the Republicans ) than the real Fascists will offer them a ? solution ?. David J. From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Morton K. Brussel via Peace Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 11:38 AM To: Karen Aram Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace wrote: By Paul Jay. https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu May 7 18:10:24 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 11:10:24 -0700 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> Message-ID: I don?t agree with the statement ?As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism.? This assumption is precisely what must be debunked. They offer band aids to stop bleeding from a bullet wound. We need much more to prevent WW3, and or the catastrophic conditions many are facing due to global warming, etc. As long as people believe there is hope in elections, as long as they believe removal of Trump will solve the major problems, they will do nothing. This is the major reason we aren?t successful mobilizing an active populace opposing our corporate capitalist government. Incremental death as applied by the Dems. in power maybe preferable to the crashing bomb being dropped on us by the Trump administration but it is like a snowball rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with time. Chris Hedges is another one who agrees with me, there are many others, we?re simply not hearing from them. As to elections, vote third Party, support a non corporate owned Party with a platform that is more likely to solve problems than support them. Resist, rather than conform, if we look at history it was resistance that brought about positive change, not conformity to those in power. > On May 7, 2020, at 09:38, Morton K. Brussel wrote: > > You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. > > The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. > > It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. > >> On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: >> >> Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? >> >> They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. >> >> This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. >> >> The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? >> >> is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. >> >> Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace > wrote: >>> >>> By Paul Jay. >>> >>> https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu May 7 19:02:25 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 12:02:25 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Chris Hedges on voting for Biden vs Trump Message-ID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cN6RhXbLQM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkb3 at icloud.com Thu May 7 21:24:59 2020 From: mkb3 at icloud.com (Morton K. Brussel) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 16:24:59 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: <007801d6249a$2927dc50$7b7794f0$@comcast.net> References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> <007801d6249a$2927dc50$7b7794f0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Dave, So, you don?t fear or care if Trump gets another term? I do, despite not disagreeing with most of your arguments. Despite what you say, this election is important just so the present government leadership does not continue. I can?t imagine any worse outcomes then to again have Pompeo, Abrams, Pence, Vos, and the like again destroying lives here and abroad. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, ?, the ?Justice? department and the Supreme Court. Saying we must organize for a better future is valid, but it does not seem feasible to me in the short term, in the next months or year, unless a popular reawakening and action dramatically changes. Do you think the Green Party is up to the challenge? Coronavirus could present an opportunity given how dreadful economic conditions are given all those now unemployed, ?or perhaps the converse, totalitarianism may emerge? "Nothing will change for the better"? But it can well change for the worse. And by November. We are between a rock and a hard place. > On May 7, 2020, at 1:05 PM, David Johnson via Peace wrote: > > Mort, > > The President of the United States does NOTHING without the support of the majority of the U.S. corporate oligarchy. > IF Fascism comes to the U.S., it will only happen if that is what a majority of the corporate ruling class wants, and that can happen under Biden just as easily as Trump. > > The proof is in the pudding in regards to how ineffective this failed strategy of lesser evil voting has been for the last 30 years. More often than not, the lesser evil is the more EFFECTIVE evil. A Republican like Bob Dole and H.W. Bush during the 1990?s would never have been able to get all of the horrible laws passed that Bill Clinton did. Like NAFTA, the racist crime bill, the destruction of aid to families with dependent children, the telecommunications act, the destabilization and destruction of Yugoslavia, and last but not least, the repeal of the Glass Stiegel Act. I could provide an even longer list for Obama. > > NOTHING will change for the better in this country until we have a REAL opposition party which takes no corporate money and has a movement behind it. > The failure of Bernie Sanders ( who I supported ) is proof that the corporate oligarchy will NEVER allow change for the better to happen within the Democratic party. And in addition, the Democratic party is corrupting. Look at how fast AOC, Rashid Taibi, Ro Khana, and even TUlsi Gabbard and Ihlan Omar, and Bernie Sanders folded and went along with the corporate agenda with this recent SIX TRILLION DOLLAR corporate robbery. Not to mention Sanders refusing to call out and challenge the massive ELECTION FRAUD used against him on Super Tuesday and how fast he folded up his campaign and supported Biden. All have bent the knee to the corporate oligarchy through it?s surrogate the DNC. > > We need a REAL opposition and a REAL resistance, NOT two corporate parties pretending to be enemies and then wondering why things continue to get worse ( a 40 year decline since 1980 ) and nothing changes for the better. > > And as Karen said, there is a storm of social unrest coming, and if people like us do not offer solutions ( as opposed to telling them to vote for more Democrats who are as mush the reason for the problems we have as the Republicans ) than the real Fascists will offer them a ? solution ?. > > David J. > > From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net ] On Behalf Of Morton K. Brussel via Peace > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 11:38 AM > To: Karen Aram > Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Peace > Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions > > You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. > > The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. > > It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. > > > On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: > > Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? > > They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. > > This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. > > The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? > > is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. > > Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. > > > > > > > > > On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace > wrote: > > By Paul Jay. > > https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkb3 at icloud.com Thu May 7 21:55:23 2020 From: mkb3 at icloud.com (Morton K. Brussel) Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 16:55:23 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> Message-ID: The items I mentioned are not bandaids; they are essential for a beneficent society. Are these essential features to be debunked, false? As for WWIII, I won?t take bets as to who will lead us more likely there. Iran? The S China Sea? I do not relish Trump with his finger on the nuclear trigger, pushed forward by Pompeo and associates. As for who is pushing or condoning facistic elements, it is hard to imagine Trump and company being outdone. Elections are not sufficient, but they are necessary. They can change the course of events. Especially this one. As several has pointed out, a Biden presidency would be similar to an Obama one, not promising, but not so catastrophic as what Trump seems to promise. A major problem that can be mitigated is, for example, climate change and environmentalism. You dismiss this cavalierly in not giving Trump his due. How about health and employment safety nets? I too like Chris Hedges, most of the time, but he offers no likely solutions except (world?) revolution. I just don?t see it. I have a hard time reconciling moral stances?vote Green? in the present conjuncture. > On May 7, 2020, at 1:10 PM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: > > I don?t agree with the statement ?As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism.? > > This assumption is precisely what must be debunked. They offer band aids to stop bleeding from a bullet wound. We need much more to prevent WW3, and or the catastrophic conditions many are facing due to global warming, etc. > > As long as people believe there is hope in elections, as long as they believe removal of Trump will solve the major problems, they will do nothing. This is the major reason we aren?t successful mobilizing an active populace opposing our corporate capitalist government. Incremental death as applied by the Dems. in power maybe preferable to the crashing bomb being dropped on us by the Trump administration but it is like a snowball rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with time. > > Chris Hedges is another one who agrees with me, there are many others, we?re simply not hearing from them. > > As to elections, vote third Party, support a non corporate owned Party with a platform that is more likely to solve problems than support them. Resist, rather than conform, if we look at history it was resistance that brought about positive change, not conformity to those in power. > > > >> On May 7, 2020, at 09:38, Morton K. Brussel > wrote: >> >> You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. >> >> The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. >> >> It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. >> >>> On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: >>> >>> Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? >>> >>> They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. >>> >>> This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. >>> >>> The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? >>> >>> is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. >>> >>> Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace > wrote: >>>> >>>> By Paul Jay. >>>> >>>> https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rlnelson at illinois.edu Fri May 8 02:42:32 2020 From: rlnelson at illinois.edu (Nelson, Randall L) Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 02:42:32 +0000 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> Message-ID: I am not happy that Biden will get the Democratic nomination, but if your criteria cannot distinguish between Biden and Trump, I would urge you to refine your criteria. The important comparison here is not between Biden and Trump but between Trump and every US president in at least the past 100 years. In this group Trump is in a class by himself defined by his incompetence, untruthfulness, self-centeredness, divisiveness, and bigotry. In his first term, he has caused great damage that will not be easy to repair and if given another 4 years, I shudder to think about the consequences. Sometimes a symbolic, protest vote can serve a good purpose. In this case, it has the potential for great harm. Randy Nelson From: Peace On Behalf Of Morton K. Brussel via Peace Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:55 PM To: Karen Aram Cc: Morton K. Brussel ; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions The items I mentioned are not bandaids; they are essential for a beneficent society. Are these essential features to be debunked, false? As for WWIII, I won?t take bets as to who will lead us more likely there. Iran? The S China Sea? I do not relish Trump with his finger on the nuclear trigger, pushed forward by Pompeo and associates. As for who is pushing or condoning facistic elements, it is hard to imagine Trump and company being outdone. Elections are not sufficient, but they are necessary. They can change the course of events. Especially this one. As several has pointed out, a Biden presidency would be similar to an Obama one, not promising, but not so catastrophic as what Trump seems to promise. A major problem that can be mitigated is, for example, climate change and environmentalism. You dismiss this cavalierly in not giving Trump his due. How about health and employment safety nets? I too like Chris Hedges, most of the time, but he offers no likely solutions except (world?) revolution. I just don?t see it. I have a hard time reconciling moral stances?vote Green? in the present conjuncture. On May 7, 2020, at 1:10 PM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: I don?t agree with the statement ?As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism.? This assumption is precisely what must be debunked. They offer band aids to stop bleeding from a bullet wound. We need much more to prevent WW3, and or the catastrophic conditions many are facing due to global warming, etc. As long as people believe there is hope in elections, as long as they believe removal of Trump will solve the major problems, they will do nothing. This is the major reason we aren?t successful mobilizing an active populace opposing our corporate capitalist government. Incremental death as applied by the Dems. in power maybe preferable to the crashing bomb being dropped on us by the Trump administration but it is like a snowball rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with time. Chris Hedges is another one who agrees with me, there are many others, we?re simply not hearing from them. As to elections, vote third Party, support a non corporate owned Party with a platform that is more likely to solve problems than support them. Resist, rather than conform, if we look at history it was resistance that brought about positive change, not conformity to those in power. On May 7, 2020, at 09:38, Morton K. Brussel > wrote: You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace > wrote: By Paul Jay. https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Fri May 8 11:25:28 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 06:25:28 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> Message-ID: Yup. As you said, " The important comparison here is not between Biden and Trump but between Trump and every US president in at least the past 100 years." Deb On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 9:43 PM Nelson, Randall L via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > I am not happy that Biden will get the Democratic nomination, but if your > criteria cannot distinguish between Biden and Trump, I would urge you to > refine your criteria. The important comparison here is not between Biden > and Trump but between Trump and every US president in at least the past 100 > years. In this group Trump is in a class by himself defined by his > incompetence, untruthfulness, self-centeredness, divisiveness, and > bigotry. In his first term, he has caused great damage that will not be > easy to repair and if given another 4 years, I shudder to think about the > consequences. Sometimes a symbolic, protest vote can serve a good > purpose. In this case, it has the potential for great harm. > > > > Randy Nelson > > > > *From:* Peace *On Behalf Of *Morton K. > Brussel via Peace > *Sent:* Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:55 PM > *To:* Karen Aram > *Cc:* Morton K. Brussel ; Peace > *Subject:* Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions > > > > The items I mentioned are not bandaids; they are essential for a > beneficent society. Are these essential features to be debunked, false? As > for WWIII, I won?t take bets as to who will lead us more likely there. > Iran? The S China Sea? I do not relish Trump with his finger on the > nuclear trigger, pushed forward by Pompeo and associates. As for who is > pushing or condoning facistic elements, it is hard to imagine Trump and > company being outdone. > > > > Elections are not sufficient, but they are necessary. They can change the > course of events. Especially this one. As several has pointed out, a Biden > presidency would be similar to an Obama one, not promising, but not so > catastrophic as what Trump seems to promise. > > > > A major problem that can be mitigated is, for example, climate change and > environmentalism. You dismiss this cavalierly in not giving Trump his due. > How about health and employment safety nets? > > > > I too like Chris Hedges, most of the time, but he offers no likely > solutions except (world?) revolution. I just don?t see it. > > > > I have a hard time reconciling moral stances?vote Green? in the present > conjuncture. > > > > On May 7, 2020, at 1:10 PM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: > > > > I don?t agree with the statement ?As compromised and bad as Biden and the > Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many > crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, > universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back > emerging facism.? > > > > This assumption is precisely what must be debunked. They offer band aids > to stop bleeding from a bullet wound. We need much more to prevent WW3, and > or the catastrophic conditions many are facing due to global warming, etc. > > > > As long as people believe there is hope in elections, as long as they > believe removal of Trump will solve the major problems, they will do > nothing. This is the major reason we aren?t successful mobilizing an active > populace opposing our corporate capitalist government. Incremental death as > applied by the Dems. in power maybe preferable to the crashing bomb being > dropped on us by the Trump administration but it is like a snowball rolling > down a hill, gathering momentum with time. > > > > Chris Hedges is another one who agrees with me, there are many others, > we?re simply not hearing from them. > > > > As to elections, vote third Party, support a non corporate owned Party > with a platform that is more likely to solve problems than support them. > Resist, rather than conform, if we look at history it was resistance that > brought about positive change, not conformity to those in power. > > > > > > > > On May 7, 2020, at 09:38, Morton K. Brussel wrote: > > > > You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay > and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on > Jay?s new outlet. > > > > The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the > coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize > that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one > way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not > alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly > militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more > promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that > it can be done!. So what to do *now*? As compromised and bad as Biden and > the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many > crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, > universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back > emerging facism. > > > > It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the > pandemic and its foreboding consequences. > > > > On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: > > > > Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little > different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? > > > > They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended > solutions support the very problem defined. > > > > This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the > federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, > because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and > the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals > in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if > a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given > the corruption involved in our so called democracy. > > > > The statement: * "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the > economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to > avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders > waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made > people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to > Biden,?* > > > > is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of > the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result > in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the > disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos > and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering > inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is > responsible for all. > > > > Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes > place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, > and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance > with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, > focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, > etc???. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > By Paul Jay. > > > https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Fri May 8 12:18:42 2020 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 07:18:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> Message-ID: <005a01d62532$d0852eb0$718f8c10$@comcast.net> Really Deb ? As bad as Trump is, what damage he has dome is NOTHING in comparison to the damage that Ronald Reagan did or G.W. Bush, the WAR CRIMINAL whose image the Neo-Liberal Democrats are trying to whitewash and rehabilitate. Oh, and since you mentioned the time frame of 100 years , let?s compare Trump to Richard Nixon, who not only contributed to the unnecessary death and dismemberment of tens of thousands of Americans but also MILLIONS of S.E. Asians and let?s not forget the REAL crime of WATERGATE, as opposed to the debunked and discredited evidence free conspiracy theory of Russia gate. But also lets not forget that the extremely destructive and harmful policies enacted by Ronald Reagan ( that we are still living with to this very day ) that were not only continued but EXPNADED by Bill Clinton, and likewise the horrible policies of G.W. Bush that were enacted were continued and EXPANDED by OBAMA ! IF you want to debate the specific policies I would be more than happy to do so. So let?s compare Biden to TRUMP, because the similarities are uncanny ; Biden is a pathological liar, a racist, and a misogynist sexual predator just like Trump. Biden supported segregation and opposed busing, Biden supported the drug war and the crime bill of mass incarceration. Biden supported cutting ( REPEATEDLY over the years ) Social Security and Medicare, and OPPOSES Medicare for All Biden not only voted for the invasion of Iraq, but was a cheerleader for the invasion and praised Bush for his ? leadership ?. Biden is a war monger and an imperialist to his core. Biden opposes a national $ 15 per hour minimum wage and the federal legalization of marijuana. Biden supports job destroying corporate trade treaties and opposes the repeal of the anti-Union Taft Hartley Act Biden opposes the Green New Deal Biden opposes free post high school education and student debt forgiveness BOTH the Republican and the Democratic parties are corporate funded and have been for quite some time. The ruling class has control of both of these political parties and hence they will always do the bidding of their corporate donors and not what the people need and want. The recent crushing of Bernie Sanders campaign is PROOF that change for the better within the corporate financed and controlled Democratic party is not possible. The ONLY solution is a non-corporate ? Peoples ? Party that is controlled and propelled by a mass movement of REAL opposition ( NOT phony hashtag so called ? Resistance ? ) to the BI-PARTISAN corporate ruling class oligarchy. The ones who actually rule this country NOT the U.S. President, who will do NOTHING without the consent of the majority of the corporate ruling class oligarchy. David Johnson From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace Sent: Friday, May 08, 2020 6:25 AM To: Nelson, Randall L Cc: Karen Aram; Morton K. Brussel; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions Yup. As you said, " The important comparison here is not between Biden and Trump but between Trump and every US president in at least the past 100 years." Deb On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 9:43 PM Nelson, Randall L via Peace wrote: I am not happy that Biden will get the Democratic nomination, but if your criteria cannot distinguish between Biden and Trump, I would urge you to refine your criteria. The important comparison here is not between Biden and Trump but between Trump and every US president in at least the past 100 years. In this group Trump is in a class by himself defined by his incompetence, untruthfulness, self-centeredness, divisiveness, and bigotry. In his first term, he has caused great damage that will not be easy to repair and if given another 4 years, I shudder to think about the consequences. Sometimes a symbolic, protest vote can serve a good purpose. In this case, it has the potential for great harm. Randy Nelson From: Peace On Behalf Of Morton K. Brussel via Peace Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:55 PM To: Karen Aram Cc: Morton K. Brussel ; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions The items I mentioned are not bandaids; they are essential for a beneficent society. Are these essential features to be debunked, false? As for WWIII, I won?t take bets as to who will lead us more likely there. Iran? The S China Sea? I do not relish Trump with his finger on the nuclear trigger, pushed forward by Pompeo and associates. As for who is pushing or condoning facistic elements, it is hard to imagine Trump and company being outdone. Elections are not sufficient, but they are necessary. They can change the course of events. Especially this one. As several has pointed out, a Biden presidency would be similar to an Obama one, not promising, but not so catastrophic as what Trump seems to promise. A major problem that can be mitigated is, for example, climate change and environmentalism. You dismiss this cavalierly in not giving Trump his due. How about health and employment safety nets? I too like Chris Hedges, most of the time, but he offers no likely solutions except (world?) revolution. I just don?t see it. I have a hard time reconciling moral stances?vote Green? in the present conjuncture. On May 7, 2020, at 1:10 PM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: I don?t agree with the statement ?As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism.? This assumption is precisely what must be debunked. They offer band aids to stop bleeding from a bullet wound. We need much more to prevent WW3, and or the catastrophic conditions many are facing due to global warming, etc. As long as people believe there is hope in elections, as long as they believe removal of Trump will solve the major problems, they will do nothing. This is the major reason we aren?t successful mobilizing an active populace opposing our corporate capitalist government. Incremental death as applied by the Dems. in power maybe preferable to the crashing bomb being dropped on us by the Trump administration but it is like a snowball rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with time. Chris Hedges is another one who agrees with me, there are many others, we?re simply not hearing from them. As to elections, vote third Party, support a non corporate owned Party with a platform that is more likely to solve problems than support them. Resist, rather than conform, if we look at history it was resistance that brought about positive change, not conformity to those in power. On May 7, 2020, at 09:38, Morton K. Brussel wrote: You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace wrote: Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace wrote: By Paul Jay. https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Fri May 8 12:31:35 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 05:31:35 -0700 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: <005a01d62532$d0852eb0$718f8c10$@comcast.net> References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> <005a01d62532$d0852eb0$718f8c10$@comcast.net> Message-ID: To add to what David just said below: Clinton?s ?Nafta,? should have been the signal to Democrats, the working class had been betrayed. If they don?t care about the millions of people murdered in the six wars under the Obama Administration, following the two implemented by Bush, then their refusal to allow Bernie be President should speak volumes. Those of us in our declining years who fear change, need to consider what the younger generations are facing in their future if we continue on this treadmill of running running but going no where. > On May 8, 2020, at 05:18, David Johnson wrote: > > Really Deb ? > > As bad as Trump is, what damage he has dome is NOTHING in comparison to the damage that Ronald Reagan did or G.W. Bush, the WAR CRIMINAL whose image the Neo-Liberal Democrats are trying to whitewash and rehabilitate. Oh, and since you mentioned the time frame of 100 years , let?s compare Trump to Richard Nixon, who not only contributed to the unnecessary death and dismemberment of tens of thousands of Americans but also MILLIONS of S.E. Asians and let?s not forget the REAL crime of WATERGATE, as opposed to the debunked and discredited evidence free conspiracy theory of Russia gate. > But also lets not forget that the extremely destructive and harmful policies enacted by Ronald Reagan ( that we are still living with to this very day ) that were not only continued but EXPNADED by Bill Clinton, and likewise the horrible policies of G.W. Bush that were enacted were continued and EXPANDED by OBAMA ! > IF you want to debate the specific policies I would be more than happy to do so. > > So let?s compare Biden to TRUMP, because the similarities are uncanny ; > > Biden is a pathological liar, a racist, and a misogynist sexual predator just like Trump. > Biden supported segregation and opposed busing, > Biden supported the drug war and the crime bill of mass incarceration. > Biden supported cutting ( REPEATEDLY over the years ) Social Security and Medicare, and OPPOSES Medicare for All > Biden not only voted for the invasion of Iraq, but was a cheerleader for the invasion and praised Bush for his ? leadership ?. > Biden is a war monger and an imperialist to his core. > Biden opposes a national $ 15 per hour minimum wage and the federal legalization of marijuana. > Biden supports job destroying corporate trade treaties and opposes the repeal of the anti-Union Taft Hartley Act > Biden opposes the Green New Deal > Biden opposes free post high school education and student debt forgiveness > > BOTH the Republican and the Democratic parties are corporate funded and have been for quite some time. The ruling class has control of both of these political parties and hence they will always do the bidding of their corporate donors and not what the people need and want. > The recent crushing of Bernie Sanders campaign is PROOF that change for the better within the corporate financed and controlled Democratic party is not possible. The ONLY solution is a non-corporate ? Peoples ? Party that is controlled and propelled by a mass movement of REAL opposition ( NOT phony hashtag so called ? Resistance ? ) to the BI-PARTISAN corporate ruling class oligarchy. The ones who actually rule this country NOT the U.S. President, who will do NOTHING without the consent of the majority of the corporate ruling class oligarchy. > > David Johnson > > > From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Debra Schrishuhn via Peace > Sent: Friday, May 08, 2020 6:25 AM > To: Nelson, Randall L > Cc: Karen Aram; Morton K. Brussel; Peace > Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions > > Yup. As you said, " The important comparison here is not between Biden and Trump but between Trump and every US president in at least the past 100 years." > > Deb > > On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 9:43 PM Nelson, Randall L via Peace > wrote: >> I am not happy that Biden will get the Democratic nomination, but if your criteria cannot distinguish between Biden and Trump, I would urge you to refine your criteria. The important comparison here is not between Biden and Trump but between Trump and every US president in at least the past 100 years. In this group Trump is in a class by himself defined by his incompetence, untruthfulness, self-centeredness, divisiveness, and bigotry. In his first term, he has caused great damage that will not be easy to repair and if given another 4 years, I shudder to think about the consequences. Sometimes a symbolic, protest vote can serve a good purpose. In this case, it has the potential for great harm. >> >> Randy Nelson >> >> From: Peace > On Behalf Of Morton K. Brussel via Peace >> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:55 PM >> To: Karen Aram > >> Cc: Morton K. Brussel >; Peace > >> Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions >> >> The items I mentioned are not bandaids; they are essential for a beneficent society. Are these essential features to be debunked, false? As for WWIII, I won?t take bets as to who will lead us more likely there. Iran? The S China Sea? I do not relish Trump with his finger on the nuclear trigger, pushed forward by Pompeo and associates. As for who is pushing or condoning facistic elements, it is hard to imagine Trump and company being outdone. >> >> Elections are not sufficient, but they are necessary. They can change the course of events. Especially this one. As several has pointed out, a Biden presidency would be similar to an Obama one, not promising, but not so catastrophic as what Trump seems to promise. >> >> A major problem that can be mitigated is, for example, climate change and environmentalism. You dismiss this cavalierly in not giving Trump his due. How about health and employment safety nets? >> >> I too like Chris Hedges, most of the time, but he offers no likely solutions except (world?) revolution. I just don?t see it. >> >> I have a hard time reconciling moral stances?vote Green? in the present conjuncture. >> >> >>> On May 7, 2020, at 1:10 PM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: >>> >>> I don?t agree with the statement ?As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism.? >>> >>> This assumption is precisely what must be debunked. They offer band aids to stop bleeding from a bullet wound. We need much more to prevent WW3, and or the catastrophic conditions many are facing due to global warming, etc. >>> >>> As long as people believe there is hope in elections, as long as they believe removal of Trump will solve the major problems, they will do nothing. This is the major reason we aren?t successful mobilizing an active populace opposing our corporate capitalist government. Incremental death as applied by the Dems. in power maybe preferable to the crashing bomb being dropped on us by the Trump administration but it is like a snowball rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with time. >>> >>> Chris Hedges is another one who agrees with me, there are many others, we?re simply not hearing from them. >>> >>> As to elections, vote third Party, support a non corporate owned Party with a platform that is more likely to solve problems than support them. Resist, rather than conform, if we look at history it was resistance that brought about positive change, not conformity to those in power. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On May 7, 2020, at 09:38, Morton K. Brussel > wrote: >>>> >>>> You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. >>>> >>>> The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. >>>> >>>> It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? >>>>> >>>>> They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. >>>>> >>>>> This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. >>>>> >>>>> The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? >>>>> >>>>> is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> By Paul Jay. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Fri May 8 18:07:45 2020 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 13:07:45 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> <007801d6249a$2927dc50$7b7794f0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <00fe01d62563$a3b27560$eb176020$@comcast.net> Mort, To answer your question about if I care or not if Trump gets another term, then I with all due respect, ask you to re-read what I wrote. In particular the very first sentence which I guess cannot be over emphasized. It is a charade Mort, Joe Biden is NOT FDR and Donald Trump is NOT the anti-Christ Fascist many would like us to believe he is. BOTH Biden and Trump and the political parties that they represent are controlled by the SAME corporate donors who rule this country. Regardless which one of THEIR candidates is elected, the same policies will continue that they have already planned to implement. In the meantime the ruling class will continue their tactics of ; divide and conquer, Kabuki theater distractions, and the latest evil foreigners / foreign governments we are supposed to fear and hate. The corporate media the oligarchy owns will create a reality TV show spectacle between now and the election ( if we have one ) to create the illusion that the election between Donald Trump VS. Joe Biden, or whoever the DNC replaces him with, will be the greatest show on earth, a battle for Armageddon, while the bi-partisan corporate ruling class sit back, laugh, and count all of their new money from the 6 TRILION DOLLAR robbery of us the taxpayers. It won?t matter to them who wins, they own both Trump and Biden. That is how corporate elites play, they always hedge their bets. The only thing they fear is the emergence of a non-corporate third party controlled by THE PEOPLE. But at the moment we have the real threat of a pandemic, that the ruling class has used as a smoke screen to rob our public treasury, suspend Union contracts, and increase belligerent actions against Venezuela and other countries not under their control in the corporate Pax Americana empire. All in conjunction WITH the DEMOCRATS. This will be real interesting to see how this plays out come November 2020 election day, to see how or even IF we have an election. Whatever transpires it will NOT be Trump?s decision, but what he is TOLD to do by the corporate oligarchy. In the meantime, I have hope in the numerous wildcat strikes and direct actions happening around the country that the corporate owned media of course is ignoring but is being reported by independent journalists and activists via the internet. These types of direct actions is what will be the catalyst for future change for the better. NOT electing Joe fuckin Biden and any Blue will Do corporate owned Democrat. Elections are a useful tool. One of many tools in our tool box. But they are only effective IF we have a direct action social-political movement behind it, propelling it, controlling it. That is an anti-corporate party of the people and not the corporate donor class. This is how things have changed for the better in the past. Not by begging the ruling class, not by trying to appeal to their better judgement or the ? kindness ? of their sociopathic hearts, or by voting for one of the two pre-selected corporate controlled candidates. Power concedes NOTHING without a demand and actions to back up and make the demand happen. David J. From: Morton K. Brussel [mailto:mkb3 at icloud.com] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 4:25 PM To: David Johnson Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Karen Aram; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions Dave, So, you don?t fear or care if Trump gets another term? I do, despite not disagreeing with most of your arguments. Despite what you say, this election is important just so the present government leadership does not continue. I can?t imagine any worse outcomes then to again have Pompeo, Abrams, Pence, Vos, and the like again destroying lives here and abroad. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, ?, the ?Justice? department and the Supreme Court. Saying we must organize for a better future is valid, but it does not seem feasible to me in the short term, in the next months or year, unless a popular reawakening and action dramatically changes. Do you think the Green Party is up to the challenge? Coronavirus could present an opportunity given how dreadful economic conditions are given all those now unemployed, ?or perhaps the converse, totalitarianism may emerge? "Nothing will change for the better"? But it can well change for the worse. And by November. We are between a rock and a hard place. On May 7, 2020, at 1:05 PM, David Johnson via Peace wrote: Mort, The President of the United States does NOTHING without the support of the majority of the U.S. corporate oligarchy. IF Fascism comes to the U.S., it will only happen if that is what a majority of the corporate ruling class wants, and that can happen under Biden just as easily as Trump. The proof is in the pudding in regards to how ineffective this failed strategy of lesser evil voting has been for the last 30 years. More often than not, the lesser evil is the more EFFECTIVE evil. A Republican like Bob Dole and H.W. Bush during the 1990?s would never have been able to get all of the horrible laws passed that Bill Clinton did. Like NAFTA, the racist crime bill, the destruction of aid to families with dependent children, the telecommunications act, the destabilization and destruction of Yugoslavia, and last but not least, the repeal of the Glass Stiegel Act. I could provide an even longer list for Obama. NOTHING will change for the better in this country until we have a REAL opposition party which takes no corporate money and has a movement behind it. The failure of Bernie Sanders ( who I supported ) is proof that the corporate oligarchy will NEVER allow change for the better to happen within the Democratic party. And in addition, the Democratic party is corrupting. Look at how fast AOC, Rashid Taibi, Ro Khana, and even TUlsi Gabbard and Ihlan Omar, and Bernie Sanders folded and went along with the corporate agenda with this recent SIX TRILLION DOLLAR corporate robbery. Not to mention Sanders refusing to call out and challenge the massive ELECTION FRAUD used against him on Super Tuesday and how fast he folded up his campaign and supported Biden. All have bent the knee to the corporate oligarchy through it?s surrogate the DNC. We need a REAL opposition and a REAL resistance, NOT two corporate parties pretending to be enemies and then wondering why things continue to get worse ( a 40 year decline since 1980 ) and nothing changes for the better. And as Karen said, there is a storm of social unrest coming, and if people like us do not offer solutions ( as opposed to telling them to vote for more Democrats who are as mush the reason for the problems we have as the Republicans ) than the real Fascists will offer them a ? solution ?. David J. From: Peace [ mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Morton K. Brussel via Peace Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 11:38 AM To: Karen Aram Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: By Paul Jay. https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Fri May 8 22:32:15 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 15:32:15 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Please sign the petition..... Message-ID: Pivot To Peace 20 hrs ? Please SIGN ON to the Pivot To Peace mission statement, and share it widely to help spread the word! MISSION STATEMENT: We are concerned Americans from all walks of life who have come together in opposition to the dramatically increasing drive toward confrontation between the United States and China. We have witnessed a profoundly disturbing reorientation of US military and foreign policy that identifies China as a competitor and adversary. The new military doctrine of the Pentagon has prioritized preparation for ?major power conflict? in the coming years. This dangerous reorientation has impacted consciousness in the United States on many levels such that a palpable feeling of fear, animosity and even hatred has been generated not only toward the People?s Republic of China but toward Chinese people in general, Chinese-American citizens and other Asian peoples in the United States. The so-called Pivot to Asia, which was announced in 2011, has developed into a pivot toward war and confrontation. We have created the Pivot to Peace to insist that the government and mass media turn away from the anti-China Cold War. This new Cold War has taken on a life of its own. It needs to end. We have launched a new effort called Pivot to Peace to educate and mobilize public opinion about the benefits of a policy that facilitates cooperation and mutual respect between the United States and China. Pivot to Peace is a coalition of Americans, ranging from military veterans, public sector workers, professors, healthcare professionals, public officials, legal professionals and others who are concerned about the future of relations between our country and China. We reject the escalation towards global conflict and instead urge peace and cooperation with China. We believe in the fair and open communication of information about China, its economic, social, and political affairs, free of the biases and distortions which dominate much of mainstream media in the United States. We support the frank exchange of views based on facts and evidence, rather than fear mongering and the revival of old racist stereotypes and Cold War political bugbears. We want to build support for peace and prosperity and a shared future of mutually beneficial development for both the American and Chinese people. We believe that friendship and engagement between our countries is the better path towards that future. Add your voice to the Pivot to Peace: www.peacepivot.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sat May 9 08:37:56 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 03:37:56 -0500 Subject: [Peace] early-lockdown-lifting-will-prolong-the-greater-depression Message-ID: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/05/early-lockdown-lifting-will-prolong-the-greater-depression.html?fbclid=IwAR0hLPuoDL8gbUZp04gdnLQDUE6qypQB8KavSycsFJMVorg0-T7iFzFKJ8Y From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Sat May 9 09:56:42 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 04:56:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: <00fe01d62563$a3b27560$eb176020$@comcast.net> References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> <007801d6249a$2927dc50$7b7794f0$@comcast.net> <00fe01d62563$a3b27560$eb176020$@comcast.net> Message-ID: David, I am not defending Joe Biden. The line I quoted was from Randall Nelson (see above). The stark reality is that either Donald Trump or Joe Biden will be our next President. To me, the choice is clear and I will (albeit reluctantly and without enthusiasm) cast my vote (probably by mail) for Biden. Joe Biden will win the 20 electoral votes of Illinois without your assistance. As the saying goes, you play the hand you are dealt, even though, as the laws of both gambling and physics remind us, you can't win, you can't break even, and you can't get out of the game. Nevertheless, we persist in our resistance. It's what humans do. Now, we can discuss the morality (or lack thereof) of the Electoral College 'til the proverbial cows come home, but sometime before January 20, 2021, they will convene and select the next U.S. President. We can hold up past Presidents, both Democrats and Republicans, as corporate-owned warmongers ultimately beholden to an elite ruling class. We are confronted, in less than six months, by a choice between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Period. There is no viable or probable third choice. Vote Green Party if it soothes your conscience and helps you sleep at night. For the Green Party to be viable, it would need to start running and winning at the local level to demonstrate its ability to govern and grow a winning coalition. How many candidates does the local Green Party plan to run in November? In the consolidated local elections of 2021? How many candidates did the local Green Party run in 2018? 2019? Local governance is not sexy; it's a long slog through bureaucracy and petty fiefdoms of (too many) maladjusted people trying to be the big fish in a small pond. However, local governance is the place where coalitions are built (see career of Bernie Sanders, for example), both inside and outside the walls of power. For outside groups to gain power, they have to get inside without being corrupted. It's tough, and few manage to achieve any measure of success. No, power does not concede without a demand, but the demand must be backed up by currency, if you will, that power understands. That currency is a bloc of votes; first on the school board or city council, then on the county board, and up the ladder to state and federal offices. Start running candidates from your non-corporate party and go from there. Deb On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 1:09 PM David Johnson via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Mort, > > > > To answer your question about if I care or not if Trump gets another term, > then I with all due respect, ask you to re-read what I wrote. > > In particular the very first sentence which I guess cannot be over > emphasized. > > > > It is a charade Mort, Joe Biden is NOT FDR and Donald Trump is NOT the > anti-Christ Fascist many would like us to believe he is. > > BOTH Biden and Trump and the political parties that they represent are > controlled by the SAME corporate donors who rule this country. Regardless > which one of THEIR candidates is elected, the same policies will continue > that they have already planned to implement. > > > > In the meantime the ruling class will continue their tactics of ; divide > and conquer, Kabuki theater distractions, and the latest evil foreigners / > foreign governments we are supposed to fear and hate. The corporate media > the oligarchy owns will create a reality TV show spectacle between now and > the election ( if we have one ) to create the illusion that the election > between Donald Trump VS. Joe Biden, or whoever the DNC replaces him with, > will be the greatest show on earth, a battle for Armageddon, while the > bi-partisan corporate ruling class sit back, laugh, and count all of their > new money from the 6 TRILION DOLLAR robbery of us the taxpayers. It won?t > matter to them who wins, they own both Trump and Biden. That is how > corporate elites play, they always hedge their bets. > > The only thing they fear is the emergence of a non-corporate third party > controlled by THE PEOPLE. > > > > > > But at the moment we have the real threat of a pandemic, that the ruling > class has used as a smoke screen to rob our public treasury, suspend Union > contracts, and increase belligerent actions against Venezuela and other > countries not under their control in the corporate Pax Americana empire. > All in conjunction WITH the DEMOCRATS. This will be real interesting to see > how this plays out come November 2020 election day, to see how or even IF > we have an election. Whatever transpires it will NOT be Trump?s decision, > but what he is TOLD to do by the corporate oligarchy. > > > > In the meantime, I have hope in the numerous wildcat strikes and direct > actions happening around the country that the corporate owned media of > course is ignoring but is being reported by independent journalists and > activists via the internet. > > These types of direct actions is what will be the catalyst for future > change for the better. NOT electing Joe fuckin Biden and any Blue will Do > corporate owned Democrat. Elections are a useful tool. One of many tools in > our tool box. But they are only effective IF we have a direct action > social-political movement behind it, propelling it, controlling it. That is > an anti-corporate party of the people and not the corporate donor class. > > This is how things have changed for the better in the past. Not by begging > the ruling class, not by trying to appeal to their better judgement or the > ? kindness ? of their sociopathic hearts, or by voting for one of the two > pre-selected corporate controlled candidates. > > Power concedes NOTHING without a demand and actions to back up and make > the demand happen. > > > > David J. > > > > > > *From:* Morton K. Brussel [mailto:mkb3 at icloud.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, May 07, 2020 4:25 PM > *To:* David Johnson > *Cc:* Morton K. Brussel; Karen Aram; Peace > *Subject:* Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions > > > > Dave, > > > > So, you don?t fear or care if Trump gets another term? I do, despite not > disagreeing with most of your arguments. Despite what you say, this > election is important just so the present government leadership does not > continue. I can?t imagine any worse outcomes then to again have Pompeo, > Abrams, Pence, Vos, and the like again destroying lives here and abroad. > Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, ?, the ?Justice? department and > the Supreme Court. Saying we must organize for a better future is valid, > but it does not seem feasible to me in the short term, in the next months > or year, unless a popular reawakening and action dramatically changes. Do > you think the Green Party is up to the challenge? Coronavirus could present > an opportunity given how dreadful economic conditions are given all those > now unemployed, ?or perhaps the converse, totalitarianism may emerge? > > > > "Nothing will change for the better"? But it can well change for the > worse. And by November. We are between a rock and a hard place. > > > > On May 7, 2020, at 1:05 PM, David Johnson via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > > Mort, > > > > The President of the United States does NOTHING without the support of the > majority of the U.S. corporate oligarchy. > > IF Fascism comes to the U.S., it will only happen if that is what a > majority of the corporate ruling class wants, and that can happen under > Biden just as easily as Trump. > > > > The proof is in the pudding in regards to how ineffective this failed > strategy of lesser evil voting has been for the last 30 years. More often > than not, the lesser evil is the more EFFECTIVE evil. A Republican like > Bob Dole and H.W. Bush during the 1990?s would never have been able to get > all of the horrible laws passed that Bill Clinton did. Like NAFTA, the > racist crime bill, the destruction of aid to families with dependent > children, the telecommunications act, the destabilization and destruction > of Yugoslavia, and last but not least, the repeal of the Glass Stiegel Act. > I could provide an even longer list for Obama. > > > > NOTHING will change for the better in this country until we have a REAL > opposition party which takes no corporate money and has a movement behind > it. > > The failure of Bernie Sanders ( who I supported ) is proof that the > corporate oligarchy will NEVER allow change for the better to happen within > the Democratic party. And in addition, the Democratic party is corrupting. > Look at how fast AOC, Rashid Taibi, Ro Khana, and even TUlsi Gabbard and > Ihlan Omar, and Bernie Sanders folded and went along with the corporate > agenda with this recent SIX TRILLION DOLLAR corporate robbery. Not to > mention Sanders refusing to call out and challenge the massive ELECTION > FRAUD used against him on Super Tuesday and how fast he folded up his > campaign and supported Biden. All have bent the knee to the corporate > oligarchy through it?s surrogate the DNC. > > > > We need a REAL opposition and a REAL resistance, NOT two corporate parties > pretending to be enemies and then wondering why things continue to get > worse ( a 40 year decline since 1980 ) and nothing changes for the better. > > > > > And as Karen said, there is a storm of social unrest coming, and if people > like us do not offer solutions ( as opposed to telling them to vote for > more Democrats who are as mush the reason for the problems we have as the > Republicans ) than the real Fascists will offer them a ? solution ?. > > > > David J. > > > > *From:* Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net > ] *On Behalf Of *Morton K. Brussel via > Peace > *Sent:* Thursday, May 07, 2020 11:38 AM > *To:* Karen Aram > *Cc:* Morton K. Brussel; Peace > *Subject:* Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions > > > > You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay > and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on > Jay?s new outlet. > > > > The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the > coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize > that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one > way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not > alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly > militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more > promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that > it can be done!. So what to do *now*? As compromised and bad as Biden and > the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many > crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, > universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back > emerging facism. > > > > It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the > pandemic and its foreboding consequences. > > > > > On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: > > > > Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little > different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? > > > > They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended > solutions support the very problem defined. > > > > This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the > federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, > because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and > the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals > in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if > a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given > the corruption involved in our so called democracy. > > > > The statement: *"Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy > appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid > social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged > by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people > reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,?* > > > > is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of > the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result > in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the > disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos > and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering > inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is > responsible for all. > > > > Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes > place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, > and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance > with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, > focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, > etc???. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > By Paul Jay. > > > https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Sat May 9 15:32:57 2020 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 10:32:57 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> <007801d6249a$2927dc50$7b7794f0$@comcast.net> <00fe01d62563$a3b27560$eb176020$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <003101d62617$1dba24d0$592e6e70$@comcast.net> Yes Deb, I know the reality, but You don?t seem to have a clue as to what the REAL power dynamics are in this country. Re-Read what I wrote ( especially the first paragraph ) and try to refute the specific points I made. As long as people like you keep voting for corporate candidates, you are NOT resisting, you are collaborating ! You are doing exactly what the ruling class wants. When I vote for the Green party it is NOT to ? sooth my conscience ?, it is because I do NOT vote for anyone who does not represent my interests or the interests of working people in general. I don?t owe my vote to anyone, you have to EARN my vote. Therefore neither Trump or Biden or Londrigen or Durbin support any issues that will improve my life or the life of working people in general so, NO VOTE. Not to mention that despite all of the ballot access obstacles that you and other partisan Democrats support that makes it ten times more difficult to get a 3rd party on the ballot and the prevention of Greens and other 3rd party candidates from being in public and televised debates, The Green party is still nevertheless the 3rd largest political party in the U.S. with over 140 elected officials around the country. Room to expand, definitely, and as polls have shown, more and more Americans are becoming increasingly disgusted with the U.S. political process and support by 60 % margin, the need for another 3rd party. So as things get worse, and they will regardless which rapist / racist / warmonger ( Biden or Trump ) gets elected, the Democratic party will become more and more irrelevant. Until you stop voting for these bastards Deb, they will NOT take you seriously and things will continue to get worse and worse, just like they have for the last 40 years. What was the famous quote from Einstein ; The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Well that is what you and all of the other liberal Democrats are doing every 2-4 years. You keep making the same tired worn out arguments about how things will change for the better if we just keep voting for more Democrats, any Democrat , regardless of how bought and paid for they are by corporate money. And then you wonder why we are STILL on a FORTY YEAR decline and still declining. Just a reminder, the largest voting bloc are those who consider themselves ? Independents ? = 48 % ( Vs. 26 % Democrats and 26 % Republicans = 52 % ). Independents ( like me ) will NOT vote for someone like Joe Biden, just like in 2016 they ( and I ) refused to vote for Hillary Clinton, so unless something really dramatic happens between now and November, we will have another four years of Trump. You can thank the DNC for that, so if you are happy with the rigged game ( using your casino analogy ) where we always lose and the corporate special interests always win, then keep playing if it makes you feel better. You can always say, ; ? Oh well that?s just how it is, oh well ?. David J. From: Debra Schrishuhn [mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2020 4:57 AM To: David Johnson Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Karen Aram; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions David, I am not defending Joe Biden. The line I quoted was from Randall Nelson (see above). The stark reality is that either Donald Trump or Joe Biden will be our next President. To me, the choice is clear and I will (albeit reluctantly and without enthusiasm) cast my vote (probably by mail) for Biden. Joe Biden will win the 20 electoral votes of Illinois without your assistance. As the saying goes, you play the hand you are dealt, even though, as the laws of both gambling and physics remind us, you can't win, you can't break even, and you can't get out of the game. Nevertheless, we persist in our resistance. It's what humans do. Now, we can discuss the morality (or lack thereof) of the Electoral College 'til the proverbial cows come home, but sometime before January 20, 2021, they will convene and select the next U.S. President. We can hold up past Presidents, both Democrats and Republicans, as corporate-owned warmongers ultimately beholden to an elite ruling class. We are confronted, in less than six months, by a choice between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Period. There is no viable or probable third choice. Vote Green Party if it soothes your conscience and helps you sleep at night. For the Green Party to be viable, it would need to start running and winning at the local level to demonstrate its ability to govern and grow a winning coalition. How many candidates does the local Green Party plan to run in November? In the consolidated local elections of 2021? How many candidates did the local Green Party run in 2018? 2019? Local governance is not sexy; it's a long slog through bureaucracy and petty fiefdoms of (too many) maladjusted people trying to be the big fish in a small pond. However, local governance is the place where coalitions are built (see career of Bernie Sanders, for example), both inside and outside the walls of power. For outside groups to gain power, they have to get inside without being corrupted. It's tough, and few manage to achieve any measure of success. No, power does not concede without a demand, but the demand must be backed up by currency, if you will, that power understands. That currency is a bloc of votes; first on the school board or city council, then on the county board, and up the ladder to state and federal offices. Start running candidates from your non-corporate party and go from there. Deb On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 1:09 PM David Johnson via Peace wrote: Mort, To answer your question about if I care or not if Trump gets another term, then I with all due respect, ask you to re-read what I wrote. In particular the very first sentence which I guess cannot be over emphasized. It is a charade Mort, Joe Biden is NOT FDR and Donald Trump is NOT the anti-Christ Fascist many would like us to believe he is. BOTH Biden and Trump and the political parties that they represent are controlled by the SAME corporate donors who rule this country. Regardless which one of THEIR candidates is elected, the same policies will continue that they have already planned to implement. In the meantime the ruling class will continue their tactics of ; divide and conquer, Kabuki theater distractions, and the latest evil foreigners / foreign governments we are supposed to fear and hate. The corporate media the oligarchy owns will create a reality TV show spectacle between now and the election ( if we have one ) to create the illusion that the election between Donald Trump VS. Joe Biden, or whoever the DNC replaces him with, will be the greatest show on earth, a battle for Armageddon, while the bi-partisan corporate ruling class sit back, laugh, and count all of their new money from the 6 TRILION DOLLAR robbery of us the taxpayers. It won?t matter to them who wins, they own both Trump and Biden. That is how corporate elites play, they always hedge their bets. The only thing they fear is the emergence of a non-corporate third party controlled by THE PEOPLE. But at the moment we have the real threat of a pandemic, that the ruling class has used as a smoke screen to rob our public treasury, suspend Union contracts, and increase belligerent actions against Venezuela and other countries not under their control in the corporate Pax Americana empire. All in conjunction WITH the DEMOCRATS. This will be real interesting to see how this plays out come November 2020 election day, to see how or even IF we have an election. Whatever transpires it will NOT be Trump?s decision, but what he is TOLD to do by the corporate oligarchy. In the meantime, I have hope in the numerous wildcat strikes and direct actions happening around the country that the corporate owned media of course is ignoring but is being reported by independent journalists and activists via the internet. These types of direct actions is what will be the catalyst for future change for the better. NOT electing Joe fuckin Biden and any Blue will Do corporate owned Democrat. Elections are a useful tool. One of many tools in our tool box. But they are only effective IF we have a direct action social-political movement behind it, propelling it, controlling it. That is an anti-corporate party of the people and not the corporate donor class. This is how things have changed for the better in the past. Not by begging the ruling class, not by trying to appeal to their better judgement or the ? kindness ? of their sociopathic hearts, or by voting for one of the two pre-selected corporate controlled candidates. Power concedes NOTHING without a demand and actions to back up and make the demand happen. David J. From: Morton K. Brussel [mailto:mkb3 at icloud.com] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 4:25 PM To: David Johnson Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Karen Aram; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions Dave, So, you don?t fear or care if Trump gets another term? I do, despite not disagreeing with most of your arguments. Despite what you say, this election is important just so the present government leadership does not continue. I can?t imagine any worse outcomes then to again have Pompeo, Abrams, Pence, Vos, and the like again destroying lives here and abroad. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, ?, the ?Justice? department and the Supreme Court. Saying we must organize for a better future is valid, but it does not seem feasible to me in the short term, in the next months or year, unless a popular reawakening and action dramatically changes. Do you think the Green Party is up to the challenge? Coronavirus could present an opportunity given how dreadful economic conditions are given all those now unemployed, ?or perhaps the converse, totalitarianism may emerge? "Nothing will change for the better"? But it can well change for the worse. And by November. We are between a rock and a hard place. On May 7, 2020, at 1:05 PM, David Johnson via Peace wrote: Mort, The President of the United States does NOTHING without the support of the majority of the U.S. corporate oligarchy. IF Fascism comes to the U.S., it will only happen if that is what a majority of the corporate ruling class wants, and that can happen under Biden just as easily as Trump. The proof is in the pudding in regards to how ineffective this failed strategy of lesser evil voting has been for the last 30 years. More often than not, the lesser evil is the more EFFECTIVE evil. A Republican like Bob Dole and H.W. Bush during the 1990?s would never have been able to get all of the horrible laws passed that Bill Clinton did. Like NAFTA, the racist crime bill, the destruction of aid to families with dependent children, the telecommunications act, the destabilization and destruction of Yugoslavia, and last but not least, the repeal of the Glass Stiegel Act. I could provide an even longer list for Obama. NOTHING will change for the better in this country until we have a REAL opposition party which takes no corporate money and has a movement behind it. The failure of Bernie Sanders ( who I supported ) is proof that the corporate oligarchy will NEVER allow change for the better to happen within the Democratic party. And in addition, the Democratic party is corrupting. Look at how fast AOC, Rashid Taibi, Ro Khana, and even TUlsi Gabbard and Ihlan Omar, and Bernie Sanders folded and went along with the corporate agenda with this recent SIX TRILLION DOLLAR corporate robbery. Not to mention Sanders refusing to call out and challenge the massive ELECTION FRAUD used against him on Super Tuesday and how fast he folded up his campaign and supported Biden. All have bent the knee to the corporate oligarchy through it?s surrogate the DNC. We need a REAL opposition and a REAL resistance, NOT two corporate parties pretending to be enemies and then wondering why things continue to get worse ( a 40 year decline since 1980 ) and nothing changes for the better. And as Karen said, there is a storm of social unrest coming, and if people like us do not offer solutions ( as opposed to telling them to vote for more Democrats who are as mush the reason for the problems we have as the Republicans ) than the real Fascists will offer them a ? solution ?. David J. From: Peace [ mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Morton K. Brussel via Peace Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 11:38 AM To: Karen Aram Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: By Paul Jay. https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net Sat May 9 15:46:49 2020 From: davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net (David Johnson) Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 10:46:49 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: <003101d62617$1dba24d0$592e6e70$@comcast.net> References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> <007801d6249a$2927dc50$7b7794f0$@comcast.net> <00fe01d62563$a3b27560$eb176020$@comcast.net> <003101d62617$1dba24d0$592e6e70$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <004401d62619$1ed17650$5c7462f0$@comcast.net> Biden is a pathological liar, a racist, and a misogynist sexual predator just like Trump. Biden supported segregation and opposed busing, Biden supported the drug war and the crime bill of mass incarceration. Biden supported cutting ( REPEATEDLY over the years ) Social Security and Medicare Biden OPPOSES Medicare for All Biden not only voted for the invasion of Iraq, but was a cheerleader for the invasion and praised Bush for his ? leadership ?. Biden is a war monger and an imperialist to his core. Biden opposes a national $ 15 per hour minimum wage and the federal legalization of marijuana. Biden supports job destroying corporate trade treaties and opposes the repeal of the anti-Union Taft Hartley Act Biden opposes the Green New Deal Biden opposes free post high school education and student debt forgiveness From: Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of David Johnson via Peace Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2020 10:33 AM To: 'Debra Schrishuhn' Cc: 'Karen Aram'; 'Morton K. Brussel'; 'Peace' Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions Yes Deb, I know the reality, but You don?t seem to have a clue as to what the REAL power dynamics are in this country. Re-Read what I wrote ( especially the first paragraph ) and try to refute the specific points I made. As long as people like you keep voting for corporate candidates, you are NOT resisting, you are collaborating ! You are doing exactly what the ruling class wants. When I vote for the Green party it is NOT to ? sooth my conscience ?, it is because I do NOT vote for anyone who does not represent my interests or the interests of working people in general. I don?t owe my vote to anyone, you have to EARN my vote. Therefore neither Trump or Biden or Londrigen or Durbin support any issues that will improve my life or the life of working people in general so, NO VOTE. Not to mention that despite all of the ballot access obstacles that you and other partisan Democrats support that makes it ten times more difficult to get a 3rd party on the ballot and the prevention of Greens and other 3rd party candidates from being in public and televised debates, The Green party is still nevertheless the 3rd largest political party in the U.S. with over 140 elected officials around the country. Room to expand, definitely, and as polls have shown, more and more Americans are becoming increasingly disgusted with the U.S. political process and support by 60 % margin, the need for another 3rd party. So as things get worse, and they will regardless which rapist / racist / warmonger ( Biden or Trump ) gets elected, the Democratic party will become more and more irrelevant. Until you stop voting for these bastards Deb, they will NOT take you seriously and things will continue to get worse and worse, just like they have for the last 40 years. What was the famous quote from Einstein ; The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Well that is what you and all of the other liberal Democrats are doing every 2-4 years. You keep making the same tired worn out arguments about how things will change for the better if we just keep voting for more Democrats, any Democrat , regardless of how bought and paid for they are by corporate money. And then you wonder why we are STILL on a FORTY YEAR decline and still declining. Just a reminder, the largest voting bloc are those who consider themselves ? Independents ? = 48 % ( Vs. 26 % Democrats and 26 % Republicans = 52 % ). Independents ( like me ) will NOT vote for someone like Joe Biden, just like in 2016 they ( and I ) refused to vote for Hillary Clinton, so unless something really dramatic happens between now and November, we will have another four years of Trump. You can thank the DNC for that, so if you are happy with the rigged game ( using your casino analogy ) where we always lose and the corporate special interests always win, then keep playing if it makes you feel better. You can always say, ; ? Oh well that?s just how it is, oh well ?. David J. From: Debra Schrishuhn [mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2020 4:57 AM To: David Johnson Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Karen Aram; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions David, I am not defending Joe Biden. The line I quoted was from Randall Nelson (see above). The stark reality is that either Donald Trump or Joe Biden will be our next President. To me, the choice is clear and I will (albeit reluctantly and without enthusiasm) cast my vote (probably by mail) for Biden. Joe Biden will win the 20 electoral votes of Illinois without your assistance. As the saying goes, you play the hand you are dealt, even though, as the laws of both gambling and physics remind us, you can't win, you can't break even, and you can't get out of the game. Nevertheless, we persist in our resistance. It's what humans do. Now, we can discuss the morality (or lack thereof) of the Electoral College 'til the proverbial cows come home, but sometime before January 20, 2021, they will convene and select the next U.S. President. We can hold up past Presidents, both Democrats and Republicans, as corporate-owned warmongers ultimately beholden to an elite ruling class. We are confronted, in less than six months, by a choice between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Period. There is no viable or probable third choice. Vote Green Party if it soothes your conscience and helps you sleep at night. For the Green Party to be viable, it would need to start running and winning at the local level to demonstrate its ability to govern and grow a winning coalition. How many candidates does the local Green Party plan to run in November? In the consolidated local elections of 2021? How many candidates did the local Green Party run in 2018? 2019? Local governance is not sexy; it's a long slog through bureaucracy and petty fiefdoms of (too many) maladjusted people trying to be the big fish in a small pond. However, local governance is the place where coalitions are built (see career of Bernie Sanders, for example), both inside and outside the walls of power. For outside groups to gain power, they have to get inside without being corrupted. It's tough, and few manage to achieve any measure of success. No, power does not concede without a demand, but the demand must be backed up by currency, if you will, that power understands. That currency is a bloc of votes; first on the school board or city council, then on the county board, and up the ladder to state and federal offices. Start running candidates from your non-corporate party and go from there. Deb On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 1:09 PM David Johnson via Peace wrote: Mort, To answer your question about if I care or not if Trump gets another term, then I with all due respect, ask you to re-read what I wrote. In particular the very first sentence which I guess cannot be over emphasized. It is a charade Mort, Joe Biden is NOT FDR and Donald Trump is NOT the anti-Christ Fascist many would like us to believe he is. BOTH Biden and Trump and the political parties that they represent are controlled by the SAME corporate donors who rule this country. Regardless which one of THEIR candidates is elected, the same policies will continue that they have already planned to implement. In the meantime the ruling class will continue their tactics of ; divide and conquer, Kabuki theater distractions, and the latest evil foreigners / foreign governments we are supposed to fear and hate. The corporate media the oligarchy owns will create a reality TV show spectacle between now and the election ( if we have one ) to create the illusion that the election between Donald Trump VS. Joe Biden, or whoever the DNC replaces him with, will be the greatest show on earth, a battle for Armageddon, while the bi-partisan corporate ruling class sit back, laugh, and count all of their new money from the 6 TRILION DOLLAR robbery of us the taxpayers. It won?t matter to them who wins, they own both Trump and Biden. That is how corporate elites play, they always hedge their bets. The only thing they fear is the emergence of a non-corporate third party controlled by THE PEOPLE. But at the moment we have the real threat of a pandemic, that the ruling class has used as a smoke screen to rob our public treasury, suspend Union contracts, and increase belligerent actions against Venezuela and other countries not under their control in the corporate Pax Americana empire. All in conjunction WITH the DEMOCRATS. This will be real interesting to see how this plays out come November 2020 election day, to see how or even IF we have an election. Whatever transpires it will NOT be Trump?s decision, but what he is TOLD to do by the corporate oligarchy. In the meantime, I have hope in the numerous wildcat strikes and direct actions happening around the country that the corporate owned media of course is ignoring but is being reported by independent journalists and activists via the internet. These types of direct actions is what will be the catalyst for future change for the better. NOT electing Joe fuckin Biden and any Blue will Do corporate owned Democrat. Elections are a useful tool. One of many tools in our tool box. But they are only effective IF we have a direct action social-political movement behind it, propelling it, controlling it. That is an anti-corporate party of the people and not the corporate donor class. This is how things have changed for the better in the past. Not by begging the ruling class, not by trying to appeal to their better judgement or the ? kindness ? of their sociopathic hearts, or by voting for one of the two pre-selected corporate controlled candidates. Power concedes NOTHING without a demand and actions to back up and make the demand happen. David J. From: Morton K. Brussel [mailto:mkb3 at icloud.com] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 4:25 PM To: David Johnson Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Karen Aram; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions Dave, So, you don?t fear or care if Trump gets another term? I do, despite not disagreeing with most of your arguments. Despite what you say, this election is important just so the present government leadership does not continue. I can?t imagine any worse outcomes then to again have Pompeo, Abrams, Pence, Vos, and the like again destroying lives here and abroad. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, ?, the ?Justice? department and the Supreme Court. Saying we must organize for a better future is valid, but it does not seem feasible to me in the short term, in the next months or year, unless a popular reawakening and action dramatically changes. Do you think the Green Party is up to the challenge? Coronavirus could present an opportunity given how dreadful economic conditions are given all those now unemployed, ?or perhaps the converse, totalitarianism may emerge? "Nothing will change for the better"? But it can well change for the worse. And by November. We are between a rock and a hard place. On May 7, 2020, at 1:05 PM, David Johnson via Peace wrote: Mort, The President of the United States does NOTHING without the support of the majority of the U.S. corporate oligarchy. IF Fascism comes to the U.S., it will only happen if that is what a majority of the corporate ruling class wants, and that can happen under Biden just as easily as Trump. The proof is in the pudding in regards to how ineffective this failed strategy of lesser evil voting has been for the last 30 years. More often than not, the lesser evil is the more EFFECTIVE evil. A Republican like Bob Dole and H.W. Bush during the 1990?s would never have been able to get all of the horrible laws passed that Bill Clinton did. Like NAFTA, the racist crime bill, the destruction of aid to families with dependent children, the telecommunications act, the destabilization and destruction of Yugoslavia, and last but not least, the repeal of the Glass Stiegel Act. I could provide an even longer list for Obama. NOTHING will change for the better in this country until we have a REAL opposition party which takes no corporate money and has a movement behind it. The failure of Bernie Sanders ( who I supported ) is proof that the corporate oligarchy will NEVER allow change for the better to happen within the Democratic party. And in addition, the Democratic party is corrupting. Look at how fast AOC, Rashid Taibi, Ro Khana, and even TUlsi Gabbard and Ihlan Omar, and Bernie Sanders folded and went along with the corporate agenda with this recent SIX TRILLION DOLLAR corporate robbery. Not to mention Sanders refusing to call out and challenge the massive ELECTION FRAUD used against him on Super Tuesday and how fast he folded up his campaign and supported Biden. All have bent the knee to the corporate oligarchy through it?s surrogate the DNC. We need a REAL opposition and a REAL resistance, NOT two corporate parties pretending to be enemies and then wondering why things continue to get worse ( a 40 year decline since 1980 ) and nothing changes for the better. And as Karen said, there is a storm of social unrest coming, and if people like us do not offer solutions ( as opposed to telling them to vote for more Democrats who are as mush the reason for the problems we have as the Republicans ) than the real Fascists will offer them a ? solution ?. David J. From: Peace [ mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Morton K. Brussel via Peace Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 11:38 AM To: Karen Aram Cc: Morton K. Brussel; Peace Subject: Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on Jay?s new outlet. The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that it can be done!. So what to do now? As compromised and bad as Biden and the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back emerging facism. It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the pandemic and its foreboding consequences. On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended solutions support the very problem defined. This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given the corruption involved in our so called democracy. The statement: "Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,? is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is responsible for all. Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, etc???. On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: By Paul Jay. https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace _______________________________________________ Peace mailing list Peace at lists.chambana.net https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Sun May 10 11:50:59 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 06:50:59 -0500 Subject: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions In-Reply-To: <004401d62619$1ed17650$5c7462f0$@comcast.net> References: <1190E9CF-AD51-4DED-ABE0-B731CD80D0F5@icloud.com> <007801d6249a$2927dc50$7b7794f0$@comcast.net> <00fe01d62563$a3b27560$eb176020$@comcast.net> <003101d62617$1dba24d0$592e6e70$@comcast.net> <004401d62619$1ed17650$5c7462f0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: And the alternative is...a pathological liar, racist, misogynist, xenophobic sexual predator who practices discrimination in his hiring, employment, and rental activities on the properties he operates while serving as President, supports cultural and economic segregation and low-grade genocide, has repeatedly proposed cutting social Security and Medicare and especially Me3dicare (not to mention SNAP, Headstart, and other social safety nets), not only opposes Medicare For All but also is actively trying to destroy every vestige of accessible health carte in the U.S.,opposes wars and supports wars and threatens wars with lightning rapidity, longs to be a "wartime president" although he is personally a coward, opposes raising the minimum wage and legalizing marijuana and voting by mail and saving the USPS, gives lip service to anti-corporate trade treaties while lining his pockets and the pockets of his billionaire friends with taxpayer money, has a long history of union busting and not paying employees /contractors, not only opposes the Green New Deal but denies the existence of human-made climate change and has reduced regulations to allow more corporate polluting and exploitation of public lands, and has no interest in free education or student debt relief. Why, his Education Secretary has helped fraudulent for-profit diploma mills start up again--and that's not even mentioning "Trump University" and his faux charity. Then there is the racist border wall costing billions, seizing private property, ripping through public lands and sacred Native American sites. And we could mention his total unconcern for Native American peoples. The only drug problems he cares about are those affecting rural white people. And on and on and on. Suit yourself and don't vote. I don't like Biden but I sure as hell won't help Trump get a second term. On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 10:47 AM David Johnson wrote: > Biden is a pathological liar, a racist, and a misogynist sexual predator > just like Trump. > > Biden supported segregation and opposed busing, > > Biden supported the drug war and the crime bill of mass incarceration. > > Biden supported cutting ( REPEATEDLY over the years ) Social Security and > Medicare > > Biden OPPOSES Medicare for All > > Biden not only voted for the invasion of Iraq, but was a cheerleader for > the invasion and praised Bush for his ? leadership ?. > > Biden is a war monger and an imperialist to his core. > > Biden opposes a national $ 15 per hour minimum wage and the federal > legalization of marijuana. > > Biden supports job destroying corporate trade treaties and opposes the > repeal of the anti-Union Taft Hartley Act > > Biden opposes the Green New Deal > > Biden opposes free post high school education and student debt forgiveness > > > > > > *From:* Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] *On Behalf Of *David > Johnson via Peace > *Sent:* Saturday, May 09, 2020 10:33 AM > *To:* 'Debra Schrishuhn' > *Cc:* 'Karen Aram'; 'Morton K. Brussel'; 'Peace' > *Subject:* Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions > > > > Yes Deb, > > > > I know the reality, but You don?t seem to have a clue as to what the REAL > power dynamics are in this country. > > Re-Read what I wrote ( especially the first paragraph ) and try to refute > the specific points I made. > > As long as people like you keep voting for corporate candidates, you are > NOT resisting, you are collaborating ! > > You are doing exactly what the ruling class wants. > > > > When I vote for the Green party it is NOT to ? sooth my conscience ?, it > is because I do NOT vote for anyone who does not represent my interests or > the interests of working people in general. I don?t owe my vote to anyone, > you have to EARN my vote. Therefore neither Trump or Biden or Londrigen or > Durbin support any issues that will improve my life or the life of working > people in general so, NO VOTE. > > > > Not to mention that despite all of the ballot access obstacles that you > and other partisan Democrats support that makes it ten times more difficult > to get a 3rd party on the ballot and the prevention of Greens and other 3 > rd party candidates from being in public and televised debates, The Green > party is still nevertheless the 3rd largest political party in the U.S. > with over 140 elected officials around the country. Room to expand, > definitely, and as polls have shown, more and more Americans are becoming > increasingly disgusted with the U.S. political process and support by 60 % > margin, the need for another 3rd party. So as things get worse, and they > will regardless which rapist / racist / warmonger ( Biden or Trump ) gets > elected, the Democratic party will become more and more irrelevant. > > Until you stop voting for these bastards Deb, they will NOT take you > seriously and things will continue to get worse and worse, just like they > have for the last 40 years. What was the famous quote from Einstein ; The > definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and > expecting different results. Well that is what you and all of the other > liberal Democrats are doing every 2-4 years. You keep making the same tired > worn out arguments about how things will change for the better if we just > keep voting for more Democrats, any Democrat , regardless of how bought and > paid for they are by corporate money. And then you wonder why we are STILL > on a FORTY YEAR decline and still declining. > > > > Just a reminder, the largest voting bloc are those who consider themselves > ? Independents ? = 48 % ( Vs. 26 % Democrats and 26 % Republicans = 52 % ). > > Independents ( like me ) will NOT vote for someone like Joe Biden, just > like in 2016 they ( and I ) refused to vote for Hillary Clinton, so unless > something really dramatic happens between now and November, we will have > another four years of Trump. > > You can thank the DNC for that, so if you are happy with the rigged game ( > using your casino analogy ) where we always lose and the corporate special > interests always win, then keep playing if it makes you feel better. You > can always say, ; ? Oh well that?s just how it is, oh well ?. > > > > David J. > > > > *From:* Debra Schrishuhn [mailto:deb.pdamerica at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Saturday, May 09, 2020 4:57 AM > *To:* David Johnson > *Cc:* Morton K. Brussel; Karen Aram; Peace > *Subject:* Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions > > > > David, > > > > I am not defending Joe Biden. The line I quoted was from Randall Nelson > (see above). The stark reality is that either Donald Trump or Joe Biden > will be our next President. To me, the choice is clear and I will (albeit > reluctantly and without enthusiasm) cast my vote (probably by mail) for > Biden. Joe Biden will win the 20 electoral votes of Illinois without your > assistance. As the saying goes, you play the hand you are dealt, even > though, as the laws of both gambling and physics remind us, you can't win, > you can't break even, and you can't get out of the game. Nevertheless, we > persist in our resistance. It's what humans do. > > > > Now, we can discuss the morality (or lack thereof) of the Electoral > College 'til the proverbial cows come home, but sometime before January 20, > 2021, they will convene and select the next U.S. President. We can hold up > past Presidents, both Democrats and Republicans, as corporate-owned > warmongers ultimately beholden to an elite ruling class. We are confronted, > in less than six months, by a choice between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. > Period. There is no viable or probable third choice. > > > > Vote Green Party if it soothes your conscience and helps you sleep at > night. For the Green Party to be viable, it would need to start running and > winning at the local level to demonstrate its ability to govern and grow a > winning coalition. How many candidates does the local Green Party plan to > run in November? In the consolidated local elections of 2021? How many > candidates did the local Green Party run in 2018? 2019? Local governance is > not sexy; it's a long slog through bureaucracy and petty fiefdoms of (too > many) maladjusted people trying to be the big fish in a small pond. > However, local governance is the place where coalitions are built (see > career of Bernie Sanders, for example), both inside and outside the walls > of power. For outside groups to gain power, they have to get inside without > being corrupted. It's tough, and few manage to achieve any measure of > success. No, power does not concede without a demand, but the demand must > be backed up by currency, if you will, that power understands. That > currency is a bloc of votes; first on the school board or city council, > then on the county board, and up the ladder to state and federal offices. > Start running candidates from your non-corporate party and go from there. > > > > Deb > > > > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 1:09 PM David Johnson via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > Mort, > > > > To answer your question about if I care or not if Trump gets another term, > then I with all due respect, ask you to re-read what I wrote. > > In particular the very first sentence which I guess cannot be over > emphasized. > > > > It is a charade Mort, Joe Biden is NOT FDR and Donald Trump is NOT the > anti-Christ Fascist many would like us to believe he is. > > BOTH Biden and Trump and the political parties that they represent are > controlled by the SAME corporate donors who rule this country. Regardless > which one of THEIR candidates is elected, the same policies will continue > that they have already planned to implement. > > > > In the meantime the ruling class will continue their tactics of ; divide > and conquer, Kabuki theater distractions, and the latest evil foreigners / > foreign governments we are supposed to fear and hate. The corporate media > the oligarchy owns will create a reality TV show spectacle between now and > the election ( if we have one ) to create the illusion that the election > between Donald Trump VS. Joe Biden, or whoever the DNC replaces him with, > will be the greatest show on earth, a battle for Armageddon, while the > bi-partisan corporate ruling class sit back, laugh, and count all of their > new money from the 6 TRILION DOLLAR robbery of us the taxpayers. It won?t > matter to them who wins, they own both Trump and Biden. That is how > corporate elites play, they always hedge their bets. > > The only thing they fear is the emergence of a non-corporate third party > controlled by THE PEOPLE. > > > > > > But at the moment we have the real threat of a pandemic, that the ruling > class has used as a smoke screen to rob our public treasury, suspend Union > contracts, and increase belligerent actions against Venezuela and other > countries not under their control in the corporate Pax Americana empire. > All in conjunction WITH the DEMOCRATS. This will be real interesting to see > how this plays out come November 2020 election day, to see how or even IF > we have an election. Whatever transpires it will NOT be Trump?s decision, > but what he is TOLD to do by the corporate oligarchy. > > > > In the meantime, I have hope in the numerous wildcat strikes and direct > actions happening around the country that the corporate owned media of > course is ignoring but is being reported by independent journalists and > activists via the internet. > > These types of direct actions is what will be the catalyst for future > change for the better. NOT electing Joe fuckin Biden and any Blue will Do > corporate owned Democrat. Elections are a useful tool. One of many tools in > our tool box. But they are only effective IF we have a direct action > social-political movement behind it, propelling it, controlling it. That is > an anti-corporate party of the people and not the corporate donor class. > > This is how things have changed for the better in the past. Not by begging > the ruling class, not by trying to appeal to their better judgement or the > ? kindness ? of their sociopathic hearts, or by voting for one of the two > pre-selected corporate controlled candidates. > > Power concedes NOTHING without a demand and actions to back up and make > the demand happen. > > > > David J. > > > > > > *From:* Morton K. Brussel [mailto:mkb3 at icloud.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, May 07, 2020 4:25 PM > *To:* David Johnson > *Cc:* Morton K. Brussel; Karen Aram; Peace > *Subject:* Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions > > > > Dave, > > > > So, you don?t fear or care if Trump gets another term? I do, despite not > disagreeing with most of your arguments. Despite what you say, this > election is important just so the present government leadership does not > continue. I can?t imagine any worse outcomes then to again have Pompeo, > Abrams, Pence, Vos, and the like again destroying lives here and abroad. > Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, ?, the ?Justice? department and > the Supreme Court. Saying we must organize for a better future is valid, > but it does not seem feasible to me in the short term, in the next months > or year, unless a popular reawakening and action dramatically changes. Do > you think the Green Party is up to the challenge? Coronavirus could present > an opportunity given how dreadful economic conditions are given all those > now unemployed, ?or perhaps the converse, totalitarianism may emerge? > > > > "Nothing will change for the better"? But it can well change for the > worse. And by November. We are between a rock and a hard place. > > > > On May 7, 2020, at 1:05 PM, David Johnson via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > > Mort, > > > > The President of the United States does NOTHING without the support of the > majority of the U.S. corporate oligarchy. > > IF Fascism comes to the U.S., it will only happen if that is what a > majority of the corporate ruling class wants, and that can happen under > Biden just as easily as Trump. > > > > The proof is in the pudding in regards to how ineffective this failed > strategy of lesser evil voting has been for the last 30 years. More often > than not, the lesser evil is the more EFFECTIVE evil. A Republican like > Bob Dole and H.W. Bush during the 1990?s would never have been able to get > all of the horrible laws passed that Bill Clinton did. Like NAFTA, the > racist crime bill, the destruction of aid to families with dependent > children, the telecommunications act, the destabilization and destruction > of Yugoslavia, and last but not least, the repeal of the Glass Stiegel Act. > I could provide an even longer list for Obama. > > > > NOTHING will change for the better in this country until we have a REAL > opposition party which takes no corporate money and has a movement behind > it. > > The failure of Bernie Sanders ( who I supported ) is proof that the > corporate oligarchy will NEVER allow change for the better to happen within > the Democratic party. And in addition, the Democratic party is corrupting. > Look at how fast AOC, Rashid Taibi, Ro Khana, and even TUlsi Gabbard and > Ihlan Omar, and Bernie Sanders folded and went along with the corporate > agenda with this recent SIX TRILLION DOLLAR corporate robbery. Not to > mention Sanders refusing to call out and challenge the massive ELECTION > FRAUD used against him on Super Tuesday and how fast he folded up his > campaign and supported Biden. All have bent the knee to the corporate > oligarchy through it?s surrogate the DNC. > > > > We need a REAL opposition and a REAL resistance, NOT two corporate parties > pretending to be enemies and then wondering why things continue to get > worse ( a 40 year decline since 1980 ) and nothing changes for the better. > > > > > And as Karen said, there is a storm of social unrest coming, and if people > like us do not offer solutions ( as opposed to telling them to vote for > more Democrats who are as mush the reason for the problems we have as the > Republicans ) than the real Fascists will offer them a ? solution ?. > > > > David J. > > > > *From:* Peace [mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net > ] *On Behalf Of *Morton K. Brussel via > Peace > *Sent:* Thursday, May 07, 2020 11:38 AM > *To:* Karen Aram > *Cc:* Morton K. Brussel; Peace > *Subject:* Re: [Peace] A useful set of opinions and suggestions > > > > You will be interested in a debate/exchange/discussion between Paul Jay > and ?? Prasad, who takes your position. This debate is also available on > Jay?s new outlet. > > > > The question not answered to my satisfaction is what to do about the > coming election? Ignore it, and wait for better opportunities, or realize > that another four years of Trump administration can be world shaking, one > way or the other. Chomsky understands and worries about this; he is not > alone. Prasad says ?we" just have to work harder to assemble a truly > militant and progressive mass who could swing things towards a more > promising world for most of its population. Yet, he is not optimistic that > it can be done!. So what to do *now*? As compromised and bad as Biden and > the Dems in general are nationally, they are better than the Repubs on many > crucial, if not all, issues. The environment, equity/justice?, education, > universal health, climate change, ?, some arguable. Better at holding back > emerging facism. > > > > It?s a pretty dreadful situation we are all facing, agravated now with the > pandemic and its foreboding consequences. > > > > On May 7, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Karen Aram via Peace > wrote: > > > > Sorry, but I found the article very disappointing. Paul Jay is little > different than Chomsky, with his support for Biden ?as the lesser evil.? > > > > They do a great job of defining the problem, but their recommended > solutions support the very problem defined. > > > > This continuation of support for the Democrat Party, I?m referring to the > federal government, not local which is a different topic all together, > because the Republican Party is so awful, given they are basically one and > the same, differing only in respect to strategy and tactics, keeps liberals > in fantasy land, and on their asses arguing over which team is better as if > a football game, and every four years voting, which is also a joke, given > the corruption involved in our so called democracy. > > > > The statement: *"Before Covid-19, as the primaries were held, the economy > appeared to be robust and enough people were doing well enough to avoid > social unrest. Fear of Trump and a full court press against Sanders waged > by the Democratic Party establishment and its media allies, made people > reluctant to break from conventional politics. It swung the vote to Biden,?* > > > > is the most accurate portrayal of US electoral politics. It is the goal of > the DNC ruling elites to prevent social unrest, which could possibly result > in system change. Make no mistake there will be social unrest, the > disenfranchised will break out in anarchy, and violence resulting in chaos > and destruction unless middle class liberals join up with those suffering > inequality and whats to come, in changing our system of capitalism which is > responsible for all. > > > > Yes, there needs to be a plan, organized with an agenda for what takes > place after, as well as leadership. There are organizations offering such, > and only if they join together in common cause utilizing civil resistance > with protests, marches, strikes, sit downs, preventing business as usual, > focusing not on one person in the WH, but Congress, Wall St., the banks, > etc???. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 6, 2020, at 18:31, Morton K. Brussel via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > By Paul Jay. > > > https://theanalysis.news/commentary/covid-19-get-ready-for-the-coming-storm/ > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Sun May 10 22:47:44 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 17:47:44 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey Message-ID: The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). You can see their proposal here : https:// www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to agree with my sentiments. Here is the survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate change. ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the geese, and two people have a job. Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From niloofar.peace at gmail.com Mon May 11 06:55:58 2020 From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 01:55:58 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Susan, Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal to slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the protection of their parents, who're partners for life? Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of highly dubious effect. Niloofar Shambayati On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on > Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's > proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage > them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of > Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). > > You can see their proposal here : > https:// > www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management > > Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the > geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please > do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to > agree with my sentiments. > > Here is the survey: > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ > > How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the > geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to > improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in > the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to > the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, > mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of > thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking > I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate > change. > > ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be closed > all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees and make > them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds can take > care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into iron-rich > compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the geese, > and two people have a job. > > Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. > > > > -- > *Susan Parenti* > *Educational Coordinator * > > *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net > > *Like us on Facebook !* > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Mon May 11 12:01:14 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 07:01:14 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this area. Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose meat can attest. Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 < 1-217-367-1544> Now here are the commissioners *Michael Walker / President*-since 1983, reelected in 2019 *Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President* Commissioner since 1993 Next up for election 2023 *Roger Digges / Commissioner* elected in 2019 *Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner* Commissioner since 2010 Next up for election 2021 *LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner* Commissioner since 2015 Next up for election 2021 These folks need to feel some community heat. One for the honkers! Deb On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Susan, > > Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal to > slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. > Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature > Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of > the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in > return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the > protection of their parents, who're partners for life? > > Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of > highly dubious effect. > > Niloofar Shambayati > > On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on >> Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's >> proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage >> them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of >> Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >> >> You can see their proposal here : >> https:// >> www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >> >> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the >> geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please >> do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to >> agree with my sentiments. >> >> Here is the survey: >> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >> >> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the >> geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to >> improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in >> the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to >> the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, >> mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of >> thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking >> I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate >> change. >> >> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be closed >> all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees and make >> them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds can take >> care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into iron-rich >> compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the geese, >> and two people have a job. >> >> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >> >> >> >> -- >> *Susan Parenti* >> *Educational Coordinator * >> >> *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net >> >> *Like us on Facebook !* >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon May 11 12:36:32 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 05:36:32 -0700 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you Niloofar and Deb, I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of wildlife, animals as I am of humans. The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left alone if it requires this slaughter. I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. > On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace wrote: > > Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this area. > > Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose meat can attest. > > Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 > > Now here are the commissioners > > Michael Walker / President-since 1983, reelected in 2019 > > Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President > Commissioner since 1993 > Next up for election 2023 > > Roger Digges / Commissioner elected in 2019 > > Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner > Commissioner since 2010 > Next up for election 2021 > > LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner > Commissioner since 2015 > Next up for election 2021 > > These folks need to feel some community heat. > > One for the honkers! > Deb > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace > wrote: > Susan, > > Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal to slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the protection of their parents, who're partners for life? > > Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of highly dubious effect. > > Niloofar Shambayati > > On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace > wrote: > The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). > > You can see their proposal here : > https:// www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management > > Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to agree with my sentiments. > > Here is the survey: > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ > > How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate change. > > ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the geese, and two people have a job. > > Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. > > > > -- > Susan Parenti > Educational Coordinator > > The School for Designing a Society www.designingasociety.net > > Like us on Facebook ! > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Mon May 11 12:52:47 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 07:52:47 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, please! And thank you (honk). Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched goose families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When the goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward by vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads the adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge the young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple broods of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful parents. Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea or the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant habitat for local songbirds). On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram wrote: > Thank you Niloofar and Deb, > > I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious over > the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as outraged > at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of wildlife, > animals as I am of humans. > > The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left alone > if it requires this slaughter. > > I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with > Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. > > > On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have been > spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed whitetail > deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of the county. > If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will be another > 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this area. > > Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find > even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without > wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity > Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the > plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is > seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose > meat can attest. > > Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the main > number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 > <%201-217-367-1544> > > Now here are the commissioners > > *Michael Walker / President*-since 1983, reelected in 2019 > > *Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President* > Commissioner since 1993 > Next up for election 2023 > > *Roger Digges / Commissioner* elected in 2019 > > *Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner* > Commissioner since 2010 > Next up for election 2021 > > *LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner* > Commissioner since 2015 > Next up for election 2021 > > These folks need to feel some community heat. > > One for the honkers! > Deb > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> Susan, >> >> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal to >> slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. >> Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature >> Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of >> the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in >> return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the >> protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >> >> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of >> highly dubious effect. >> >> Niloofar Shambayati >> >> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >>> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on >>> Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's >>> proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage >>> them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of >>> Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >>> >>> You can see their proposal here : >>> https:// >>> www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >>> >>> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the >>> geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please >>> do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to >>> agree with my sentiments. >>> >>> Here is the survey: >>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >>> >>> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the >>> geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to >>> improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in >>> the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to >>> the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, >>> mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of >>> thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking >>> I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate >>> change. >>> >>> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be closed >>> all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees and make >>> them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds can take >>> care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into iron-rich >>> compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the geese, >>> and two people have a job. >>> >>> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Susan Parenti* >>> *Educational Coordinator * >>> >>> *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net >>> >>> *Like us on Facebook !* >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Mon May 11 12:59:33 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 07:59:33 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some are non-native--sort of. They were here; wild populations were destroyed; captive geese were introduced >From the book "Wild Neighbors": "Once decimated by hunting and habitat loss, Canada geese rebounded after captive birds were released throughout the country. "People may be surprised to hear that birds learn to migrate from their parents and flock?they don't hatch with this complex knowledge. So released geese never learned to fly north and instead took up local residence year-round. "We've provided food and safety right here in our cities and suburbs. The geese have no reason to go elsewhere, so they settle in and raise families.... "It's one thing to shoo a few geese off a back lawn and another to convince a large flock that has used a park for years that they ought to go elsewhere. That requires a plan. A coordinated program will save in the long run and be more successful.... "Scientific studies do not show that goose droppings pose any special health threats. Obviously, people want to avoid contact with any animal droppings. Ordinary good hygiene, such as washing hands and leaving shoes at the door, are adequate prevention if you accidentally contact animal droppings." On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:52 AM Debra Schrishuhn wrote: > Yes, please! And thank you (honk). > > Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched goose > families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When the > goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward by > vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads the > adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge the > young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple broods > of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful parents. > > Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea or > the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In > fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say > that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one > suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It > cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their > nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the > underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant > habitat for local songbirds). > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram wrote: > >> Thank you Niloofar and Deb, >> >> I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious >> over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as >> outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of >> wildlife, animals as I am of humans. >> >> The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left alone >> if it requires this slaughter. >> >> I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with >> Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. >> >> >> On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >> Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have >> been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed >> whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of >> the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will >> be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this >> area. >> >> Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find >> even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without >> wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity >> Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the >> plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is >> seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose >> meat can attest. >> >> Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the main >> number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 >> <%201-217-367-1544> >> >> Now here are the commissioners >> >> *Michael Walker / President*-since 1983, reelected in 2019 >> >> *Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President* >> Commissioner since 1993 >> Next up for election 2023 >> >> *Roger Digges / Commissioner* elected in 2019 >> >> *Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner* >> Commissioner since 2010 >> Next up for election 2021 >> >> *LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner* >> Commissioner since 2015 >> Next up for election 2021 >> >> These folks need to feel some community heat. >> >> One for the honkers! >> Deb >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >>> Susan, >>> >>> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal to >>> slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. >>> Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature >>> Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of >>> the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in >>> return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the >>> protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >>> >>> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of >>> highly dubious effect. >>> >>> Niloofar Shambayati >>> >>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < >>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>> >>>> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on >>>> Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's >>>> proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage >>>> them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of >>>> Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >>>> >>>> You can see their proposal here : >>>> https:// >>>> www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >>>> >>>> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the >>>> geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please >>>> do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to >>>> agree with my sentiments. >>>> >>>> Here is the survey: >>>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >>>> >>>> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the >>>> geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to >>>> improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in >>>> the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to >>>> the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, >>>> mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of >>>> thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking >>>> I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate >>>> change. >>>> >>>> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be >>>> closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees >>>> and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds >>>> can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into >>>> iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the >>>> geese, and two people have a job. >>>> >>>> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Susan Parenti* >>>> *Educational Coordinator * >>>> >>>> *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net >>>> >>>> *Like us on Facebook !* >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbw292002 at gmail.com Mon May 11 16:33:57 2020 From: jbw292002 at gmail.com (John W.) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 11:33:57 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 8:00 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: Some are non-native--sort of. They were here; wild populations were > destroyed; captive geese were introduced > > From the book "Wild Neighbors": > > "Once decimated by hunting and habitat loss, Canada geese rebounded after > captive birds were released throughout the country. > > "People may be surprised to hear that birds learn to migrate from their > parents and flock?they don't hatch with this complex knowledge. So released > geese never learned to fly north and instead took up local residence > year-round. > "We've provided food and safety right here in our cities and suburbs. The > geese have no reason to go elsewhere, so they settle in and raise > families.... > And to sound a discordant note in this whole conversation, this is why I don't like the geese around here. The geese may be native to central Illinois at certain times of the year, but they're not native to urban areas and they're not native year-round. i don't know what the answer is for Crystal Lake Park, but I think it's ridiculous to see flocks of geese sauntering across busy streets in the vicinity of North Prospect in Champaign. As we humans have done with so many species (like the damned grey squirrel), we've introduced them to habitats where they don't belong, and more or less domesticated them until their population gets out of control and becomes destructive. > "It's one thing to shoo a few geese off a back lawn and another to > convince a large flock that has used a park for years that they ought to go > elsewhere. That requires a plan. A coordinated program > will > save in the long run and be more successful.... > > "Scientific studies do not show that goose droppings pose any special > health threats. Obviously, people want to avoid contact with any animal > droppings. Ordinary good hygiene, such as washing hands and leaving shoes > at the door, are adequate prevention if you accidentally contact animal > droppings." > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:52 AM Debra Schrishuhn > wrote: > >> Yes, please! And thank you (honk). >> >> Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched goose >> families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When the >> goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward by >> vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads the >> adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge the >> young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple broods >> of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful parents. >> >> Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea or >> the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In >> fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say >> that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one >> suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It >> cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their >> nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the >> underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant >> habitat for local songbirds). >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram wrote: >> >>> Thank you Niloofar and Deb, >>> >>> I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious >>> over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as >>> outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of >>> wildlife, animals as I am of humans. >>> >>> The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left >>> alone if it requires this slaughter. >>> >>> I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with >>> Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. >>> >>> >>> On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < >>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>> >>> Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have >>> been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed >>> whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of >>> the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will >>> be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this >>> area. >>> >>> Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find >>> even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without >>> wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity >>> Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the >>> plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is >>> seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose >>> meat can attest. >>> >>> Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the >>> main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 >>> <%201-217-367-1544> >>> >>> Now here are the commissioners >>> >>> *Michael Walker / President*-since 1983, reelected in 2019 >>> >>> *Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President* >>> Commissioner since 1993 >>> Next up for election 2023 >>> >>> *Roger Digges / Commissioner* elected in 2019 >>> >>> *Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner* >>> Commissioner since 2010 >>> Next up for election 2021 >>> >>> *LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner* >>> Commissioner since 2015 >>> Next up for election 2021 >>> >>> These folks need to feel some community heat. >>> >>> One for the honkers! >>> Deb >>> >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace < >>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Susan, >>>> >>>> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal to >>>> slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. >>>> Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature >>>> Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of >>>> the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in >>>> return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the >>>> protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >>>> >>>> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of >>>> highly dubious effect. >>>> >>>> Niloofar Shambayati >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < >>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on >>>>> Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's >>>>> proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage >>>>> them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of >>>>> Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >>>>> >>>>> You can see their proposal here : >>>>> https:// >>>>> www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >>>>> >>>>> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the >>>>> geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please >>>>> do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to >>>>> agree with my sentiments. >>>>> >>>>> Here is the survey: >>>>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >>>>> >>>>> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the >>>>> geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to >>>>> improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in >>>>> the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to >>>>> the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, >>>>> mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of >>>>> thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking >>>>> I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate >>>>> change. >>>>> >>>>> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be >>>>> closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees >>>>> and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds >>>>> can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into >>>>> iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the >>>>> geese, and two people have a job. >>>>> >>>>> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Susan Parenti* >>>>> *Educational Coordinator * >>>>> >>>>> *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net >>>>> >>>>> *Like us on Facebook !* >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbw292002 at gmail.com Mon May 11 17:06:42 2020 From: jbw292002 at gmail.com (John W.) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 12:06:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:04 PM Lois Steinberg wrote: but there are alternatives to murdering them... > Lois > Perhaps there are. But if you read the actual report from the Urbana Park District, you'll see how many different strategies have already been employed, in vain. > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:35 AM John W. via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 8:00 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >> Some are non-native--sort of. They were here; wild populations were >>> destroyed; captive geese were introduced >>> >>> From the book "Wild Neighbors": >>> >>> "Once decimated by hunting and habitat loss, Canada geese rebounded >>> after captive birds were released throughout the country. >>> >>> "People may be surprised to hear that birds learn to migrate from their >>> parents and flock?they don't hatch with this complex knowledge. So released >>> geese never learned to fly north and instead took up local residence >>> year-round. >>> >> "We've provided food and safety right here in our cities and suburbs. The >>> geese have no reason to go elsewhere, so they settle in and raise >>> families.... >>> >> >> And to sound a discordant note in this whole conversation, this is why I >> don't like the geese around here. The geese may be native to central >> Illinois at certain times of the year, but they're not native to urban >> areas and they're not native year-round. i don't know what the answer is >> for Crystal Lake Park, but I think it's ridiculous to see flocks of geese >> sauntering across busy streets in the vicinity of North Prospect in >> Champaign. As we humans have done with so many species (like the damned >> grey squirrel), we've introduced them to habitats where they don't belong, >> and more or less domesticated them until their population gets out of >> control and becomes destructive. >> >> >> >>> "It's one thing to shoo a few geese off a back lawn and another to >>> convince a large flock that has used a park for years that they ought to go >>> elsewhere. That requires a plan. A coordinated program >>> will >>> save in the long run and be more successful.... >>> >>> "Scientific studies do not show that goose droppings pose any special >>> health threats. Obviously, people want to avoid contact with any animal >>> droppings. Ordinary good hygiene, such as washing hands and leaving shoes >>> at the door, are adequate prevention if you accidentally contact animal >>> droppings." >>> >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:52 AM Debra Schrishuhn < >>> deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, please! And thank you (honk). >>>> >>>> Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched >>>> goose families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When >>>> the goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward >>>> by vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads >>>> the adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge >>>> the young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple >>>> broods of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful >>>> parents. >>>> >>>> Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea >>>> or the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In >>>> fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say >>>> that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one >>>> suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It >>>> cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their >>>> nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the >>>> underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant >>>> habitat for local songbirds). >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you Niloofar and Deb, >>>>> >>>>> I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious >>>>> over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as >>>>> outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of >>>>> wildlife, animals as I am of humans. >>>>> >>>>> The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left >>>>> alone if it requires this slaughter. >>>>> >>>>> I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with >>>>> Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < >>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have >>>>> been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed >>>>> whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of >>>>> the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will >>>>> be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this >>>>> area. >>>>> >>>>> Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find >>>>> even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without >>>>> wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity >>>>> Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the >>>>> plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is >>>>> seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose >>>>> meat can attest. >>>>> >>>>> Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the >>>>> main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 >>>>> <%201-217-367-1544> >>>>> >>>>> Now here are the commissioners >>>>> >>>>> *Michael Walker / President*-since 1983, reelected in 2019 >>>>> >>>>> *Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President* >>>>> Commissioner since 1993 >>>>> Next up for election 2023 >>>>> >>>>> *Roger Digges / Commissioner* elected in 2019 >>>>> >>>>> *Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner* >>>>> Commissioner since 2010 >>>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>>> >>>>> *LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner* >>>>> Commissioner since 2015 >>>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>>> >>>>> These folks need to feel some community heat. >>>>> >>>>> One for the honkers! >>>>> Deb >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace < >>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Susan, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal >>>>>> to slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. >>>>>> Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature >>>>>> Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of >>>>>> the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in >>>>>> return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the >>>>>> protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >>>>>> >>>>>> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of >>>>>> highly dubious effect. >>>>>> >>>>>> Niloofar Shambayati >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < >>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on >>>>>>> Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's >>>>>>> proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage >>>>>>> them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of >>>>>>> Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can see their proposal here : >>>>>>> https:// >>>>>>> www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about >>>>>>> the geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But >>>>>>> please do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't >>>>>>> have to agree with my sentiments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is the survey: >>>>>>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the >>>>>>> geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to >>>>>>> improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in >>>>>>> the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to >>>>>>> the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, >>>>>>> mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of >>>>>>> thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking >>>>>>> I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate >>>>>>> change. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be >>>>>>> closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees >>>>>>> and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds >>>>>>> can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into >>>>>>> iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the >>>>>>> geese, and two people have a job. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Susan Parenti* >>>>>>> *Educational Coordinator * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Like us on Facebook !* >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Mon May 11 17:36:02 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 12:36:02 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EFA50D9-2BE4-4CA3-93B3-0A4DACF6D990@gmail.com> We fill our urban spaces with artificial ponds, nicely landscaped with lots of regularly mown grass and no predators other than vehicles and wonder why the geese congregate, along with ducks, killdeers, herons, turtles, and the few species of amphibians not extirpated by pesticides and habitat destruction. People forget that this part of Illinois was marshy prairie, and though humans drained and paved it for their own uses, the animals that were here before us either move elsewhere or make do?wrens and robins building nests in gutters and corners of structures, swifts nesting in chimneys, opossums and raccoons and those ?damned gray squirrels ? foraging in unsecured garbage receptacles...well, list goes on. Want to get rid of the geese? Get rid of the water. The problem I see with the park district?s planned goose slaughter is that it does not address what comes next. Other geese will simply move in to fill the vacuum. Does the slaughter become an annual event? If geese are slaughtered throughout Urbana will geese from Champaign move east? Geese are pretty smart birds, but they don?t understand jurisdictional boundaries. Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2020, at 12:06 PM, John W. wrote: > >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:04 PM Lois Steinberg wrote: >> > >> but there are alternatives to murdering them... >> Lois > > Perhaps there are. But if you read the actual report from the Urbana Park District, you'll see how many different strategies have already been employed, in vain. > > > >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:35 AM John W. via Peace wrote: >>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 8:00 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> Some are non-native--sort of. They were here; wild populations were destroyed; captive geese were introduced >>>> >>>> From the book "Wild Neighbors": >>>> >>>> "Once decimated by hunting and habitat loss, Canada geese rebounded after captive birds were released throughout the country. >>>> "People may be surprised to hear that birds learn to migrate from their parents and flock?they don't hatch with this complex knowledge. So released geese never learned to fly north and instead took up local residence year-round. >>>> >>>> "We've provided food and safety right here in our cities and suburbs. The geese have no reason to go elsewhere, so they settle in and raise families.... >>>> >>> >>> And to sound a discordant note in this whole conversation, this is why I don't like the geese around here. The geese may be native to central Illinois at certain times of the year, but they're not native to urban areas and they're not native year-round. i don't know what the answer is for Crystal Lake Park, but I think it's ridiculous to see flocks of geese sauntering across busy streets in the vicinity of North Prospect in Champaign. As we humans have done with so many species (like the damned grey squirrel), we've introduced them to habitats where they don't belong, and more or less domesticated them until their population gets out of control and becomes destructive. >>> >>> >>>> "It's one thing to shoo a few geese off a back lawn and another to convince a large flock that has used a park for years that they ought to go elsewhere. That requires a plan. A coordinated program will save in the long run and be more successful.... >>>> >>>> "Scientific studies do not show that goose droppings pose any special health threats. Obviously, people want to avoid contact with any animal droppings. Ordinary good hygiene, such as washing hands and leaving shoes at the door, are adequate prevention if you accidentally contact animal droppings." >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:52 AM Debra Schrishuhn wrote: >>>>> Yes, please! And thank you (honk). >>>>> >>>>> Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched goose families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When the goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward by vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads the adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge the young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple broods of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful parents. >>>>> >>>>> Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea or the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant habitat for local songbirds). >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram wrote: >>>>>> Thank you Niloofar and Deb, >>>>>> >>>>>> I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of wildlife, animals as I am of humans. >>>>>> >>>>>> The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left alone if it requires this slaughter. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this area. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose meat can attest. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now here are the commissioners >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael Walker / President-since 1983, reelected in 2019 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President >>>>>>> Commissioner since 1993 >>>>>>> Next up for election 2023 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Roger Digges / Commissioner elected in 2019 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner >>>>>>> Commissioner since 2010 >>>>>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner >>>>>>> Commissioner since 2015 >>>>>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> These folks need to feel some community heat. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One for the honkers! >>>>>>> Deb >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace wrote: >>>>>>>> Susan, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal to slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of highly dubious effect. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Niloofar Shambayati >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace wrote: >>>>>>>>> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You can see their proposal here : >>>>>>>>> https://www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to agree with my sentiments. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here is the survey: >>>>>>>>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate change. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the geese, and two people have a job. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Susan Parenti >>>>>>>>> Educational Coordinator >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The School for Designing a Society www.designingasociety.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Like us on Facebook! >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Mon May 11 17:44:03 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 12:44:03 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On May 11, 2020, at 12:06 PM, John W. via Peace wrote: > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:04 PM Lois Steinberg > wrote: > > but there are alternatives to murdering them... > Lois > > Perhaps there are. But if you read the actual report from the Urbana Park District, you'll see how many different strategies have already been employed, in vain. Hello friends---Concerning ?the different strategies?--I spoke with Tim Barlett, head of UPD, yesterday. Concerning the other steps they?ve employed: these steps are a sequence of stages proposed by the USDA, an increase in hardship for the geese. In order to get to the final stage?killing off almost the entire herd, which is where UPD is, now, Tim told me you have to go through the other steps, show that you tried, and that they didn?t work. Tim said they?ve been aiming at the ?killing off? stage for the past few years?they did try the other interventions, but really felt that the town was divided between those people who just hate the geese, and those who don?t?so it?s more the sheer presence of the geese, not necessarily the number of them. This explains why UPD put the survey and information out about the 'charity harvest?(the euphemism for the killing of geese, selling them as meat) for just 10 days?April 27 to May 7. They had ALREADY arranged for the killing off stage with the USDA months ago, and were just waiting for whether the virus would stop this step. When they got the OK, they placed the survey?which indicates how much citizen input matters to them. They feel we are all emotional softies, who don?t realize the real logical problems they face. Sorry for this nasty remark, but in my three years of trying to work with UPD, that is my assessment?they?re burned out from public input, and endure it, but won?t be guided by it?unless people make a nasty fuss. (Gives to think). I asked Tim if the majority of Urbana citizens showed they were against the ?charity harvest? at the meeting tomorrow, would that sway the Commissioners. He paused, and said, ?Not necessarily?. My experience of the Commissioners is that they vote the way Tim Barlett and UPD President Michael Walked indicate. Does anyone have a connection with SMILE POLITELY or News Gazette? Given how little new news is out there, I think we have a shot at coverage?If only to figure out how to stand with signs (DON?T KILL THE GEESE) on Broadway at 6 feet apart, with masks and gloves. Ah, PROTEST?the old beloved normal. Susan > > > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:35 AM John W. via Peace > wrote: > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 8:00 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace > wrote: > > Some are non-native--sort of. They were here; wild populations were destroyed; captive geese were introduced > > From the book "Wild Neighbors": > > "Once decimated by hunting and habitat loss, Canada geese rebounded after captive birds were released throughout the country. > "People may be surprised to hear that birds learn to migrate from their parents and flock?they don't hatch with this complex knowledge. So released geese never learned to fly north and instead took up local residence year-round. > > "We've provided food and safety right here in our cities and suburbs. The geese have no reason to go elsewhere, so they settle in and raise families.... > > > And to sound a discordant note in this whole conversation, this is why I don't like the geese around here. The geese may be native to central Illinois at certain times of the year, but they're not native to urban areas and they're not native year-round. i don't know what the answer is for Crystal Lake Park, but I think it's ridiculous to see flocks of geese sauntering across busy streets in the vicinity of North Prospect in Champaign. As we humans have done with so many species (like the damned grey squirrel), we've introduced them to habitats where they don't belong, and more or less domesticated them until their population gets out of control and becomes destructive. > > > "It's one thing to shoo a few geese off a back lawn and another to convince a large flock that has used a park for years that they ought to go elsewhere. That requires a plan. A coordinated program will save in the long run and be more successful.... > > "Scientific studies do not show that goose droppings pose any special health threats. Obviously, people want to avoid contact with any animal droppings. Ordinary good hygiene, such as washing hands and leaving shoes at the door, are adequate prevention if you accidentally contact animal droppings." > > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:52 AM Debra Schrishuhn > wrote: > Yes, please! And thank you (honk). > > Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched goose families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When the goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward by vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads the adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge the young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple broods of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful parents. > > Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea or the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant habitat for local songbirds). > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram > wrote: > Thank you Niloofar and Deb, > > I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of wildlife, animals as I am of humans. > > The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left alone if it requires this slaughter. > > I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. > > >> On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace > wrote: >> >> Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this area. >> >> Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose meat can attest. >> >> Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 >> >> Now here are the commissioners >> >> Michael Walker / President-since 1983, reelected in 2019 >> >> Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President >> Commissioner since 1993 >> Next up for election 2023 >> >> Roger Digges / Commissioner elected in 2019 >> >> Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner >> Commissioner since 2010 >> Next up for election 2021 >> >> LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner >> Commissioner since 2015 >> Next up for election 2021 >> >> These folks need to feel some community heat. >> >> One for the honkers! >> Deb >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace > wrote: >> Susan, >> >> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal to slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >> >> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of highly dubious effect. >> >> Niloofar Shambayati >> >> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace > wrote: >> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >> >> You can see their proposal here : >> https:// www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >> >> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to agree with my sentiments. >> >> Here is the survey: >> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >> >> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate change. >> >> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the geese, and two people have a job. >> >> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >> >> >> >> -- >> Susan Parenti >> Educational Coordinator >> >> The School for Designing a Society www.designingasociety.net >> >> Like us on Facebook ! >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon May 11 18:51:45 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 11:51:45 -0700 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The American way, if we can?t control it, kill it. Immigrants allowed to drown in the Mediterranean, or caged on the border in the US. We?ve seen this time and time again, with people or animals being expendable usually so someone can make a profit. At least thats one way to look at it. I say we get out there as you suggest Susan, six feet apart in masks, with signs. Unfortunately, I have no connection with either of the news you suggest, others in the community might. Please suggest a time, assuming tomorrow? > On May 11, 2020, at 10:44, Susan Parenti wrote: > > > >> On May 11, 2020, at 12:06 PM, John W. via Peace > wrote: >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:04 PM Lois Steinberg > wrote: >> >> but there are alternatives to murdering them... >> Lois >> >> Perhaps there are. But if you read the actual report from the Urbana Park District, you'll see how many different strategies have already been employed, in vain. > > Hello friends---Concerning ?the different strategies?--I spoke with Tim Barlett, head of UPD, yesterday. Concerning the other steps they?ve employed: these steps are a sequence of stages proposed by the USDA, an increase in hardship for the geese. In order to get to the final stage?killing off almost the entire herd, which is where UPD is, now, Tim told me you have to go through the other steps, show that you tried, and that they didn?t work. Tim said they?ve been aiming at the ?killing off? stage for the past few years?they did try the other interventions, but really felt that the town was divided between those people who just hate the geese, and those who don?t?so it?s more the sheer presence of the geese, not necessarily the number of them. > > This explains why UPD put the survey and information out about the 'charity harvest?(the euphemism for the killing of geese, selling them as meat) for just 10 days?April 27 to May 7. They had ALREADY arranged for the killing off stage with the USDA months ago, and were just waiting for whether the virus would stop this step. When they got the OK, they placed the survey?which indicates how much citizen input matters to them. They feel we are all emotional softies, who don?t realize the real logical problems they face. Sorry for this nasty remark, but in my three years of trying to work with UPD, that is my assessment?they?re burned out from public input, and endure it, but won?t be guided by it?unless people make a nasty fuss. (Gives to think). > > I asked Tim if the majority of Urbana citizens showed they were against the ?charity harvest? at the meeting tomorrow, would that sway the Commissioners. He paused, and said, ?Not necessarily?. My experience of the Commissioners is that they vote the way Tim Barlett and UPD President Michael Walked indicate. > > Does anyone have a connection with SMILE POLITELY or News Gazette? Given how little new news is out there, I think we have a shot at coverage?If only to figure out how to stand with signs (DON?T KILL THE GEESE) on Broadway at 6 feet apart, with masks and gloves. Ah, PROTEST?the old beloved normal. > > Susan > > >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:35 AM John W. via Peace > wrote: >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 8:00 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace > wrote: >> >> Some are non-native--sort of. They were here; wild populations were destroyed; captive geese were introduced >> >> From the book "Wild Neighbors": >> >> "Once decimated by hunting and habitat loss, Canada geese rebounded after captive birds were released throughout the country. >> "People may be surprised to hear that birds learn to migrate from their parents and flock?they don't hatch with this complex knowledge. So released geese never learned to fly north and instead took up local residence year-round. >> >> "We've provided food and safety right here in our cities and suburbs. The geese have no reason to go elsewhere, so they settle in and raise families.... >> >> >> And to sound a discordant note in this whole conversation, this is why I don't like the geese around here. The geese may be native to central Illinois at certain times of the year, but they're not native to urban areas and they're not native year-round. i don't know what the answer is for Crystal Lake Park, but I think it's ridiculous to see flocks of geese sauntering across busy streets in the vicinity of North Prospect in Champaign. As we humans have done with so many species (like the damned grey squirrel), we've introduced them to habitats where they don't belong, and more or less domesticated them until their population gets out of control and becomes destructive. >> >> >> "It's one thing to shoo a few geese off a back lawn and another to convince a large flock that has used a park for years that they ought to go elsewhere. That requires a plan. A coordinated program will save in the long run and be more successful.... >> >> "Scientific studies do not show that goose droppings pose any special health threats. Obviously, people want to avoid contact with any animal droppings. Ordinary good hygiene, such as washing hands and leaving shoes at the door, are adequate prevention if you accidentally contact animal droppings." >> >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:52 AM Debra Schrishuhn > wrote: >> Yes, please! And thank you (honk). >> >> Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched goose families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When the goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward by vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads the adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge the young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple broods of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful parents. >> >> Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea or the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant habitat for local songbirds). >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram > wrote: >> Thank you Niloofar and Deb, >> >> I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of wildlife, animals as I am of humans. >> >> The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left alone if it requires this slaughter. >> >> I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. >> >> >>> On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace > wrote: >>> >>> Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this area. >>> >>> Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose meat can attest. >>> >>> Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 >>> >>> Now here are the commissioners >>> >>> Michael Walker / President-since 1983, reelected in 2019 >>> >>> Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President >>> Commissioner since 1993 >>> Next up for election 2023 >>> >>> Roger Digges / Commissioner elected in 2019 >>> >>> Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner >>> Commissioner since 2010 >>> Next up for election 2021 >>> >>> LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner >>> Commissioner since 2015 >>> Next up for election 2021 >>> >>> These folks need to feel some community heat. >>> >>> One for the honkers! >>> Deb >>> >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace > wrote: >>> Susan, >>> >>> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal to slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >>> >>> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of highly dubious effect. >>> >>> Niloofar Shambayati >>> >>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace > wrote: >>> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >>> >>> You can see their proposal here : >>> https:// www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >>> >>> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to agree with my sentiments. >>> >>> Here is the survey: >>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >>> >>> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate change. >>> >>> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the geese, and two people have a job. >>> >>> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Susan Parenti >>> Educational Coordinator >>> >>> The School for Designing a Society www.designingasociety.net >>> >>> Like us on Facebook ! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From urbana.acu at gmail.com Mon May 11 18:58:58 2020 From: urbana.acu at gmail.com (urbana acupuncture) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 13:58:58 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I understand the meat is not really safe to eat / toxic, as well. Or should I ask: Has It been appropriately tested for human consumption? With charity, beggars can't be choosers. Can UParks afford many get any sick from the meat? or Is that part of the ruse to eliminate the herd? Why do people hate the geese? Interesting, what we choose to put energy into UrbanaAcupuncturellc *Champaign-Urbana Community Acupuncture * 155-A Lincoln Square Mall, Urbana, IL 61801 (217)344-9118 *www.urbana-acu.com * On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:44 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > On May 11, 2020, at 12:06 PM, John W. via Peace > wrote: > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:04 PM Lois Steinberg > wrote: > > but there are alternatives to murdering them... >> Lois >> > > Perhaps there are. But if you read the actual report from the Urbana Park > District, you'll see how many different strategies have already been > employed, in vain. > > > Hello friends---Concerning ?the different strategies?--I spoke with Tim > Barlett, head of UPD, yesterday. Concerning the other steps they?ve > employed: these steps are a sequence of stages proposed by the USDA, an > increase in hardship for the geese. In order to get to the final > stage?killing off almost the entire herd, which is where UPD is, now, Tim > told me you have to go through the other steps, show that you tried, and > that they didn?t work. Tim said they?ve been aiming at the ?killing off? > stage for the past few years?they did try the other interventions, but > really felt that the town was divided between those people who just hate > the geese, and those who don?t?so it?s more the sheer presence of the > geese, not necessarily the number of them. > > This explains why UPD put the survey and information out about the > 'charity harvest?(the euphemism for the killing of geese, selling them as > meat) for just 10 days?April 27 to May 7. They had ALREADY arranged for > the killing off stage with the USDA months ago, and were just waiting for > whether the virus would stop this step. When they got the OK, they placed > the survey?which indicates how much citizen input matters to them. They > feel we are all emotional softies, who don?t realize the real logical > problems they face. Sorry for this nasty remark, but in my three years of > trying to work with UPD, that is my assessment?they?re burned out from > public input, and endure it, but won?t be guided by it?unless people make a > nasty fuss. (Gives to think). > > I asked Tim if the majority of Urbana citizens showed they were against > the ?charity harvest? at the meeting tomorrow, would that sway the > Commissioners. He paused, and said, ?Not necessarily?. My experience of the > Commissioners is that they vote the way Tim Barlett and UPD President > Michael Walked indicate. > > Does anyone have a connection with SMILE POLITELY or News Gazette? Given > how little new news is out there, I think we have a shot at coverage?If > only to figure out how to stand with signs (DON?T KILL THE GEESE) on > Broadway at 6 feet apart, with masks and gloves. Ah, PROTEST?the old > beloved normal. > > Susan > > > > > > >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:35 AM John W. via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 8:00 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < >>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>> >>> Some are non-native--sort of. They were here; wild populations were >>>> destroyed; captive geese were introduced >>>> >>>> From the book "Wild Neighbors": >>>> >>>> "Once decimated by hunting and habitat loss, Canada geese rebounded >>>> after captive birds were released throughout the country. >>>> >>>> "People may be surprised to hear that birds learn to migrate from their >>>> parents and flock?they don't hatch with this complex knowledge. So released >>>> geese never learned to fly north and instead took up local residence >>>> year-round. >>>> >>> "We've provided food and safety right here in our cities and suburbs. >>>> The geese have no reason to go elsewhere, so they settle in and raise >>>> families.... >>>> >>> >>> And to sound a discordant note in this whole conversation, this is why I >>> don't like the geese around here. The geese may be native to central >>> Illinois at certain times of the year, but they're not native to urban >>> areas and they're not native year-round. i don't know what the answer is >>> for Crystal Lake Park, but I think it's ridiculous to see flocks of geese >>> sauntering across busy streets in the vicinity of North Prospect in >>> Champaign. As we humans have done with so many species (like the damned >>> grey squirrel), we've introduced them to habitats where they don't belong, >>> and more or less domesticated them until their population gets out of >>> control and becomes destructive. >>> >>> >>> >>>> "It's one thing to shoo a few geese off a back lawn and another to >>>> convince a large flock that has used a park for years that they ought to go >>>> elsewhere. That requires a plan. A coordinated program >>>> will >>>> save in the long run and be more successful.... >>>> >>>> "Scientific studies do not show that goose droppings pose any special >>>> health threats. Obviously, people want to avoid contact with any animal >>>> droppings. Ordinary good hygiene, such as washing hands and leaving shoes >>>> at the door, are adequate prevention if you accidentally contact animal >>>> droppings." >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:52 AM Debra Schrishuhn < >>>> deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, please! And thank you (honk). >>>>> >>>>> Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched >>>>> goose families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When >>>>> the goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward >>>>> by vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads >>>>> the adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge >>>>> the young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple >>>>> broods of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful >>>>> parents. >>>>> >>>>> Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea >>>>> or the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In >>>>> fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say >>>>> that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one >>>>> suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It >>>>> cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their >>>>> nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the >>>>> underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant >>>>> habitat for local songbirds). >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you Niloofar and Deb, >>>>>> >>>>>> I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious >>>>>> over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as >>>>>> outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of >>>>>> wildlife, animals as I am of humans. >>>>>> >>>>>> The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left >>>>>> alone if it requires this slaughter. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with >>>>>> Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < >>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have >>>>>> been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed >>>>>> whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of >>>>>> the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will >>>>>> be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this >>>>>> area. >>>>>> >>>>>> Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt >>>>>> find even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without >>>>>> wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity >>>>>> Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the >>>>>> plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is >>>>>> seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose >>>>>> meat can attest. >>>>>> >>>>>> Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the >>>>>> main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 >>>>>> <%201-217-367-1544> >>>>>> >>>>>> Now here are the commissioners >>>>>> >>>>>> *Michael Walker / President*-since 1983, reelected in 2019 >>>>>> >>>>>> *Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President* >>>>>> Commissioner since 1993 >>>>>> Next up for election 2023 >>>>>> >>>>>> *Roger Digges / Commissioner* elected in 2019 >>>>>> >>>>>> *Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner* >>>>>> Commissioner since 2010 >>>>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>>>> >>>>>> *LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner* >>>>>> Commissioner since 2015 >>>>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>>>> >>>>>> These folks need to feel some community heat. >>>>>> >>>>>> One for the honkers! >>>>>> Deb >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace < >>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Susan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal >>>>>>> to slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. >>>>>>> Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature >>>>>>> Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of >>>>>>> the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in >>>>>>> return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the >>>>>>> protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and >>>>>>> of highly dubious effect. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Niloofar Shambayati >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < >>>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on >>>>>>>> Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's >>>>>>>> proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage >>>>>>>> them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of >>>>>>>> Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can see their proposal here : >>>>>>>> https:// >>>>>>>> www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about >>>>>>>> the geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But >>>>>>>> please do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't >>>>>>>> have to agree with my sentiments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here is the survey: >>>>>>>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the >>>>>>>> geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to >>>>>>>> improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in >>>>>>>> the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to >>>>>>>> the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, >>>>>>>> mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of >>>>>>>> thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking >>>>>>>> I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate >>>>>>>> change. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be >>>>>>>> closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees >>>>>>>> and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds >>>>>>>> can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into >>>>>>>> iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the >>>>>>>> geese, and two people have a job. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> *Susan Parenti* >>>>>>>> *Educational Coordinator * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Like us on Facebook !* >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >> _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From niloofar.peace at gmail.com Mon May 11 19:34:36 2020 From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 14:34:36 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Natives vs. intruders! I wonder what you suggest the Native inhabitant of these parts do with the Europeans who took over their land, using systematic violence and deception? Niloofar On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:35 AM John W. via Peace wrote: > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 8:00 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > Some are non-native--sort of. They were here; wild populations were >> destroyed; captive geese were introduced >> >> From the book "Wild Neighbors": >> >> "Once decimated by hunting and habitat loss, Canada geese rebounded after >> captive birds were released throughout the country. >> >> "People may be surprised to hear that birds learn to migrate from their >> parents and flock?they don't hatch with this complex knowledge. So released >> geese never learned to fly north and instead took up local residence >> year-round. >> > "We've provided food and safety right here in our cities and suburbs. The >> geese have no reason to go elsewhere, so they settle in and raise >> families.... >> > > And to sound a discordant note in this whole conversation, this is why I > don't like the geese around here. The geese may be native to central > Illinois at certain times of the year, but they're not native to urban > areas and they're not native year-round. i don't know what the answer is > for Crystal Lake Park, but I think it's ridiculous to see flocks of geese > sauntering across busy streets in the vicinity of North Prospect in > Champaign. As we humans have done with so many species (like the damned > grey squirrel), we've introduced them to habitats where they don't belong, > and more or less domesticated them until their population gets out of > control and becomes destructive. > > > >> "It's one thing to shoo a few geese off a back lawn and another to >> convince a large flock that has used a park for years that they ought to go >> elsewhere. That requires a plan. A coordinated program >> will >> save in the long run and be more successful.... >> >> "Scientific studies do not show that goose droppings pose any special >> health threats. Obviously, people want to avoid contact with any animal >> droppings. Ordinary good hygiene, such as washing hands and leaving shoes >> at the door, are adequate prevention if you accidentally contact animal >> droppings." >> >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:52 AM Debra Schrishuhn >> wrote: >> >>> Yes, please! And thank you (honk). >>> >>> Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched >>> goose families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When >>> the goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward >>> by vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads >>> the adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge >>> the young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple >>> broods of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful >>> parents. >>> >>> Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea or >>> the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In >>> fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say >>> that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one >>> suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It >>> cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their >>> nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the >>> underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant >>> habitat for local songbirds). >>> >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you Niloofar and Deb, >>>> >>>> I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious >>>> over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as >>>> outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of >>>> wildlife, animals as I am of humans. >>>> >>>> The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left >>>> alone if it requires this slaughter. >>>> >>>> I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with >>>> Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < >>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have >>>> been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed >>>> whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of >>>> the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will >>>> be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this >>>> area. >>>> >>>> Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find >>>> even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without >>>> wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity >>>> Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the >>>> plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is >>>> seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose >>>> meat can attest. >>>> >>>> Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the >>>> main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 >>>> <%201-217-367-1544> >>>> >>>> Now here are the commissioners >>>> >>>> *Michael Walker / President*-since 1983, reelected in 2019 >>>> >>>> *Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President* >>>> Commissioner since 1993 >>>> Next up for election 2023 >>>> >>>> *Roger Digges / Commissioner* elected in 2019 >>>> >>>> *Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner* >>>> Commissioner since 2010 >>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>> >>>> *LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner* >>>> Commissioner since 2015 >>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>> >>>> These folks need to feel some community heat. >>>> >>>> One for the honkers! >>>> Deb >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace < >>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Susan, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal >>>>> to slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. >>>>> Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature >>>>> Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of >>>>> the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in >>>>> return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the >>>>> protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >>>>> >>>>> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of >>>>> highly dubious effect. >>>>> >>>>> Niloofar Shambayati >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < >>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on >>>>>> Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's >>>>>> proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage >>>>>> them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of >>>>>> Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >>>>>> >>>>>> You can see their proposal here : >>>>>> https:// >>>>>> www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >>>>>> >>>>>> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about the >>>>>> geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But please >>>>>> do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't have to >>>>>> agree with my sentiments. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is the survey: >>>>>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >>>>>> >>>>>> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the >>>>>> geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to >>>>>> improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in >>>>>> the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to >>>>>> the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, >>>>>> mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of >>>>>> thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking >>>>>> I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate >>>>>> change. >>>>>> >>>>>> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be >>>>>> closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees >>>>>> and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds >>>>>> can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into >>>>>> iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the >>>>>> geese, and two people have a job. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Susan Parenti* >>>>>> *Educational Coordinator * >>>>>> >>>>>> *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Like us on Facebook !* >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From niloofar.peace at gmail.com Mon May 11 19:41:04 2020 From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 14:41:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace] to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And, for the benefit of all concerned, I suggest turning the Crystal Lake Park into a wild life sanctuary. A female solution as opposed to the always shortsighted and destructive male approach to long term problems. Niloofar On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 2:34 PM Niloofar Shambayati < niloofar.peace at gmail.com> wrote: > Natives vs. intruders! I wonder what you suggest the Native inhabitant of > these parts do with the Europeans who took over their land, using > systematic violence and deception? > > > Niloofar > > On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:35 AM John W. via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 8:00 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >> Some are non-native--sort of. They were here; wild populations were >>> destroyed; captive geese were introduced >>> >>> From the book "Wild Neighbors": >>> >>> "Once decimated by hunting and habitat loss, Canada geese rebounded >>> after captive birds were released throughout the country. >>> >>> "People may be surprised to hear that birds learn to migrate from their >>> parents and flock?they don't hatch with this complex knowledge. So released >>> geese never learned to fly north and instead took up local residence >>> year-round. >>> >> "We've provided food and safety right here in our cities and suburbs. The >>> geese have no reason to go elsewhere, so they settle in and raise >>> families.... >>> >> >> And to sound a discordant note in this whole conversation, this is why I >> don't like the geese around here. The geese may be native to central >> Illinois at certain times of the year, but they're not native to urban >> areas and they're not native year-round. i don't know what the answer is >> for Crystal Lake Park, but I think it's ridiculous to see flocks of geese >> sauntering across busy streets in the vicinity of North Prospect in >> Champaign. As we humans have done with so many species (like the damned >> grey squirrel), we've introduced them to habitats where they don't belong, >> and more or less domesticated them until their population gets out of >> control and becomes destructive. >> >> >> >>> "It's one thing to shoo a few geese off a back lawn and another to >>> convince a large flock that has used a park for years that they ought to go >>> elsewhere. That requires a plan. A coordinated program >>> will >>> save in the long run and be more successful.... >>> >>> "Scientific studies do not show that goose droppings pose any special >>> health threats. Obviously, people want to avoid contact with any animal >>> droppings. Ordinary good hygiene, such as washing hands and leaving shoes >>> at the door, are adequate prevention if you accidentally contact animal >>> droppings." >>> >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:52 AM Debra Schrishuhn < >>> deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, please! And thank you (honk). >>>> >>>> Yesterday in a local place with a pond (not Crystal Lake) I watched >>>> goose families move from one pond to another just before a rainstorm. When >>>> the goslings were not going fast enough, the parents shooed them forward >>>> by vocalizing and running at them with wings flapping. When crossing roads >>>> the adults will not abandon their young to save themselves, but rather urge >>>> the young ones ever faster. Geese also form family coops, with multiple >>>> broods of youngsters grazing surrounded by multiple pairs of watchful >>>> parents. >>>> >>>> Non-lethal means of control could be by the innovative geeseherd idea >>>> or the more usual human nest robbers as the park has done in the past. In >>>> fact, given the number of broods at Crystal Lake Park this year I'd say >>>> that the nest robbing/egg destruction project was abandoned--dare one >>>> suggest that it was done to make the goose problem look more acute? It >>>> cannot be because the geese are particularly good at hiding their >>>> nests--the park's so-called renovations have taken out much of the >>>> underbrush and scrub where they nested (and also decreased significant >>>> habitat for local songbirds). >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:36 AM Karen Aram >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you Niloofar and Deb, >>>>> >>>>> I just completed the survey, having just now seen it, and I?m furious >>>>> over the inhumanity of slaughtering these love creatures. I?m just as >>>>> outraged at the genocide or culling as they usually refer to it, of >>>>> wildlife, animals as I am of humans. >>>>> >>>>> The upgrades or improvements they are planning would be better left >>>>> alone if it requires this slaughter. >>>>> >>>>> I will with your permission, circulate your letter below, along with >>>>> Niloofar?s on FB, along with the link to the survey and phone number. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 11, 2020, at 05:01, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < >>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Outstanding, Susan and Niloofar. I took the survey last week and have >>>>> been spreading the word. The geese are native, just like our corn-fed >>>>> whitetail deer that sometimes form a traffic hazard in the rural parts of >>>>> the county. If Crystal Lake kills all but 20 geese, by next year there will >>>>> be another 80-100 geese in the park because they are widespread in this >>>>> area. >>>>> >>>>> Absent natural predators (which the park officials would no doubt find >>>>> even more of a "nuisance") the geese can and should be managed without >>>>> wholesale slaughter, disingenuously called "Collection and Charity >>>>> Donation" by park officials who want to soft-pedal their plans. And the >>>>> plan to donate the meat to food banks may be well-meaning, but it is >>>>> seriously flawed, as anyone who has ever tried/ learned to cook wild goose >>>>> meat can attest. >>>>> >>>>> Besides people taking the survey, who can we call today? Here is the >>>>> main number--call and protest on behalf of the geese. 217.367.1544 >>>>> <%201-217-367-1544> >>>>> >>>>> Now here are the commissioners >>>>> >>>>> *Michael Walker / President*-since 1983, reelected in 2019 >>>>> >>>>> *Nancy Delcomyn / Vice President* >>>>> Commissioner since 1993 >>>>> Next up for election 2023 >>>>> >>>>> *Roger Digges / Commissioner* elected in 2019 >>>>> >>>>> *Meredith Blumthal / Commissioner* >>>>> Commissioner since 2010 >>>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>>> >>>>> *LaShaunda Cunningham / Commissioner* >>>>> Commissioner since 2015 >>>>> Next up for election 2021 >>>>> >>>>> These folks need to feel some community heat. >>>>> >>>>> One for the honkers! >>>>> Deb >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:57 AM Niloofar Shambayati via Peace < >>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Susan, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you so much for spreading the word about the horrific proposal >>>>>> to slaughter the Crystal Lake's geese to supposedly attract more visitors. >>>>>> Don't they see how ironic it is that the Park houses Anita Purves Nature >>>>>> Center, whose main goal is to help children realize that humans are part of >>>>>> the nature, not its masters?! Can't we accept some "inconveniences" in >>>>>> return for the joy of watching goslings experience life under the >>>>>> protection of their parents, who're partners for life? >>>>>> >>>>>> Please urge the commissioners to reject this proposal as cruel and of >>>>>> highly dubious effect. >>>>>> >>>>>> Niloofar Shambayati >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:48 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < >>>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The Urbana Park District Board of Commissioners is going to vote on >>>>>>> Tuesday night May 12 whether or not they support the Park District's >>>>>>> proposal to kill off 60?100 geese in Crystal Lake Park, as a way to manage >>>>>>> them and make a balance between number of geese and size/capacities of >>>>>>> Park. (They intend to leave 20 geese alive). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can see their proposal here : >>>>>>> https:// >>>>>>> www.urbanaparks.org/projects/geese-population-and-management >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Inside the proposal is a 3 minute survey about how you feel about >>>>>>> the geese in the Park?the survey puts the geese in a negative light. But >>>>>>> please do the survey now, or at least before 6pm Tuesday night. You don't >>>>>>> have to agree with my sentiments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is the survey: >>>>>>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How do I feel about this? Daily I go to the Park to see/hear the >>>>>>> geese?they?re the main attraction. The Park District secured a grant to >>>>>>> improve Crystal Park, and they feel that the presence of the geese gets in >>>>>>> the way of those improvements. . They say that lots of people won?t go to >>>>>>> the Park because of the geese?I don?t know anyone who feels that way. But, >>>>>>> mostly, for me the killing off of the geese is a human-centered way of >>>>>>> thinking (if it?s good for humans, then it?s fine) and that way of thinking >>>>>>> I want to stop as it?s a big component of why we have catastrophic climate >>>>>>> change. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ?GEESEHERDS? I propose that given that the swimming pool will be >>>>>>> closed all summer, why doesn?t the Park District use 2 ex-pool employees >>>>>>> and make them GEESEHERDS?a variation on shep(sheep)herds. These geessherds >>>>>>> can take care of the geese, tend to their problems, turn their poop into >>>>>>> iron-rich compost. This way the park District is free of taking care of the >>>>>>> geese, and two people have a job. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please spread the word. We don?t have much time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Susan Parenti* >>>>>>> *Educational Coordinator * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Like us on Facebook !* >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Peace mailing list >>>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon May 11 21:37:49 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 14:37:49 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: to keep a balance, Urb Park proposes to kill 60-100 Crystal lake geese-- read & take survey References: Message-ID: > > STOP THE SLAUGHTER OF WILDLIFE!!!! > > Please join us in a protest opposing the slaughter of 60-100 wild geese in Cyrstal Park, at 12 noon, Tuesday May 12, at the corner in the park of Broadway and Park?Champaign/Urbana Il. Please bring signs. We will be utilizing 6 feet physical distancing, masks and gloves. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Mon May 11 22:46:01 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 17:46:01 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Protest killing of 60-100 geese--Protest Tuesday, 12 noon, May 12 Message-ID: Hi friends?Let?s meet *tomorrow Tuesday May 12 at 12 noon at the corner of Park Street and Broadway to Protest* the Urbana Park District?s intention of killing 3/4 of the Canadian Geese population in the next month, as their way to ?restore balance?. This killing of the animals would be engineered by the USDA, which calls this action ?charity harvest?: the geese are collected, killed, processed into meat, and then given to food banks and the poor. Killing 60 to 100 geese and goslings is not a solution to ?restoring balance??it?s a giving *up*, a giving* in *to a lack of imagination and compassion, a human-centric action.The Park District can do better?and if they can?t ,we will. Please spread the word about the protest tomorrow at noon. Bring signs. *6 feet social distancing will be strictly observed. To participate you must wear a mask and gloves. * Tomorrow night the Park District will meet with the park Commissioners 7-9pm to vote on this ?charity harvest'?and we are invited to attend the zoom. (More on that tomorrow). Our Park Commissioners have a record of going along with whatever the Urbana Park District recommends?so we should not expect any dissent there. We?re going to need to bring the dissent. Here is the survey that asks for your views on the geese (the survey is against the geese)?but it will help if you could take a few minutes to fill it out: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ " [image: download.jpg] -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: download.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 6998 bytes Desc: not available URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Tue May 12 15:52:24 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 10:52:24 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Protest the Killing of 60-100geese: Today, Noon, corner of Park & Broadway Message-ID: -- [image: download.jpg] Hi friends?Let?s meet *today Tuesday May 12 at 12 noon at the corner of Park Street and Broadway to Protest* the Urbana Park District?s intention of killing 3/4 of the Canada Geese population in the next month, as their way to ?restore balance?. This killing of the animals would be engineered by the USDA, which calls this action ?charity harvest?: the geese are collected, killed, processed into meat, and then given to food banks and the poor. Killing 60 to 100 geese and goslings is not a solution to ?restoring balance??it?s a giving *up*, a giving* in *to a lack of imagination and compassion, a human-centric action.The Park District can do better?and if they can?t ,we will. Please spread the word about the protest tomorrow at noon. Bring signs. *6 feet social distancing will be strictly observed. To participate you must wear a mask and gloves. * Tonight the Park District will meet with the park Commissioners 7-9pm to vote on this ?charity harvest'?and we are invited to attend the zoom. (More on that later today). Our Park Commissioners have a record of going along with whatever the Urbana Park District recommends?so we should not expect any dissent there. We?re going to need to bring the dissent. Here is the survey that asks for your views on the geese (the survey is against the geese)?but it will help if you could take a few minutes to fill it out: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/K6R2HWQ -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Tue May 12 18:36:18 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 13:36:18 -0500 Subject: [Peace] a better solution for excess geese Message-ID: Folks, I just talked to a city planner and she confirmed what has been stated here--that the geese are attracted to man-made ponds with manicured bluegrass lawns down to the water's edge. Apparently a fair amount of research exists on plants and the height of bank vegetation that geese do not like. She suggests an ordinance be brought before both city councils to end the practice of making retention pond and to plant their banks with vegetation known to be unpalatable to geese. Although this solution may not be acceptable all over the Twin Cities, at the very least Crystal Lake Park could rethink their bank vegetation and overall landscaping. Deb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From niloofar.peace at gmail.com Tue May 12 19:45:20 2020 From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 14:45:20 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Only a few hours left to prevent the slaughter of the Crystal Lake Greese Message-ID: Please read the attached Call-In request to demand the Urbana Park District Commissionaires reject the proposal to slaughter up to 100 geese, including the goslings, as a source of nuisance. We must not allow the infliction of pain and terror on these creatures. What lesson would our children and grandchildren learn from such brutality? To slaughter our way out of our problems? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Call-In to prevent the slaughter of the geese.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 68530 bytes Desc: not available URL: From niloofar.peace at gmail.com Tue May 12 19:50:06 2020 From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 14:50:06 -0500 Subject: [Peace] a better solution for excess geese In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Deb, Thanks for talking with experts. Apparently, the Urbana Park District people have not bothered to seek help from knowledgeable people. Will you bring this issue up at the Commissionaires' Zoom meeting this evening? On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:37 PM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Folks, > > I just talked to a city planner and she confirmed what has been stated > here--that the geese are attracted to man-made ponds with manicured > bluegrass lawns down to the water's edge. Apparently a fair amount of > research exists on plants and the height of bank vegetation that geese do > not like. She suggests an ordinance be brought before both city councils to > end the practice of making retention pond and to plant their banks with > vegetation known to be unpalatable to geese. Although this solution may > not be acceptable all over the Twin Cities, at the very least Crystal Lake > Park could rethink their bank vegetation and overall landscaping. > > Deb > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Tue May 12 21:05:44 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 16:05:44 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Use Zoom to call into Park District's meeting at 7pm---Zoom is easy! Message-ID: Good turn out at the protest this noon--lots of honks of approval to save the geese! Tonight's meeting starts at 7pm, with public input at that time. Input! *Public Input for Urbana Park District Regular Board Meeting (Tuesday, May 12, 2020)* *MEETING ID: 814 6947 4163PASSWORD: 294232* Anyone can attend the meeting virtually via Zoom. Any member of the public may make a brief statement during the Public Comment portion of the agenda. Per Board rules, comments will have a 2?minute time limit. The Board typically accepts comments but neither the Board nor staff will respond to individual comments during the meeting. You will be able to use a phone to call in: - Join by calling (312) 626?6799. - Callers will then be asked to enter the Meeting ID number followed by the # key. The Meeting ID number is 814 6947 4163. - Enter meeting password 294232, followed by the # key. - We ask that you please mute yourself until the time for public comment. - You can toggle between mute an unmute by dialing *6. You will be able to use a computer to address the Urbana Park District Board using Zoom: - Make sure you have a microphone on your computer if you wish to speak. Please identify yourself for the record if you do speak. - You do not need to install software to use Zoom. You can click ?Join from your browser.? It appears that Zoom prefers for users to download and install their meeting client software on your computer. Use whichever option you are most comfortable with, and note it may be browser?specific. - You should see the meeting video stream through Zoom and hear people talking. The link to join by computer is: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81469474163?pwd=Qk5XUktuN09OaFlYSFJqT043aDUwQT09 - If you do not want to be seen, please turn off your webcam video feed as everyone connected will be able to see you and your background. - This Zoom session will be recorded as part of the record. - We ask that you please mute yourself until the time for public comment. - We will not be using the Chat or Participant windows for this meeting. - You can find tutorials and help information here: https://support.zoom.us/hc/enus/articles/201362193?Joining?a?Meeting. If you are unable to call or video in to the Zoom Meeting, or would prefer to write in, public input can also be received before the meeting via email. Please submit your comments via email by 7:00 pm to tabartlett at urbanaparks.org ? these will be read per Urbana Park District Board rules and time limits. This is a work in progress, and we ask your patience as we navigate this difficult situation. -- *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Tue May 12 21:09:14 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 16:09:14 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Use ZOOM to participate in Park District meeting tonight at 7pm--ZOOm is easy! Message-ID: Hi friends---good enthusiastic turn out for the noon protest to save the geese. Almost all people in cars honked affirmatively for our message! Please join the ZOOM call tonight and make your feelings and ideas known. See you online! *Public Input for Urbana Park District Regular Board Meeting (Tuesday, May 12, 2020)* *MEETING ID: 814 6947 4163PASSWORD: 294232* Anyone can attend the meeting virtually via Zoom. Any member of the public may make a brief statement during the Public Comment portion of the agenda. Per Board rules, comments will have a 2?minute time limit. The Board typically accepts comments but neither the Board nor staff will respond to individual comments during the meeting. You will be able to use a phone to call in: - Join by calling (312) 626?6799. - Callers will then be asked to enter the Meeting ID number followed by the # key. The Meeting ID number is 814 6947 4163. - Enter meeting password 294232, followed by the # key. - We ask that you please mute yourself until the time for public comment. - You can toggle between mute an unmute by dialing *6. You will be able to use a computer to address the Urbana Park District Board using Zoom: - Make sure you have a microphone on your computer if you wish to speak. Please identify yourself for the record if you do speak. - You do not need to install software to use Zoom. You can click ?Join from your browser.? It appears that Zoom prefers for users to download and install their meeting client software on your computer. Use whichever option you are most comfortable with, and note it may be browser?specific. - You should see the meeting video stream through Zoom and hear people talking. The link to join by computer is: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81469474163?pwd=Qk5XUktuN09OaFlYSFJqT043aDUwQT09 - If you do not want to be seen, please turn off your webcam video feed as everyone connected will be able to see you and your background. - This Zoom session will be recorded as part of the record. - We ask that you please mute yourself until the time for public comment. - We will not be using the Chat or Participant windows for this meeting. - You can find tutorials and help information here: https://support.zoom.us/hc/enus/articles/201362193?Joining?a?Meeting. If you are unable to call or video in to the Zoom Meeting, or would prefer to write in, public input can also be received before the meeting via email. Please submit your comments via email by 7:00 pm to tabartlett at urbanaparks.org ? these will be read per Urbana Park District Board rules and time limits. This is a work in progress, and we ask your patience as we navigate this difficult situation. -- *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Tue May 12 23:38:37 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 18:38:37 -0500 Subject: [Peace] a better solution for excess geese In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F24A933-1E9E-4466-B222-1445D559AA98@gmail.com> Wish I could. Have a conflict, but you have the information Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Niloofar Shambayati wrote: > > Deb, > > Thanks for talking with experts. Apparently, the Urbana Park District people have not bothered to seek help from knowledgeable people. Will you bring this issue up at the Commissionaires' Zoom meeting this evening? > >> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:37 PM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace wrote: >> Folks, >> >> I just talked to a city planner and she confirmed what has been stated here--that the geese are attracted to man-made ponds with manicured bluegrass lawns down to the water's edge. Apparently a fair amount of research exists on plants and the height of bank vegetation that geese do not like. She suggests an ordinance be brought before both city councils to end the practice of making retention pond and to plant their banks with vegetation known to be unpalatable to geese. Although this solution may not be acceptable all over the Twin Cities, at the very least Crystal Lake Park could rethink their bank vegetation and overall landscaping. >> >> Deb >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Wed May 13 02:39:33 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 21:39:33 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Tonight: Urbana Park Commissioners vote, with no pain, to KILL THE GEESE Message-ID: [image: download.jpg] Hi friends?Despite eloquent testimonies by towns-people AGAINST ?Charity Harvest? (the procedure that kills geese and tries to give away their carcasses as ?meat?) the Board of Commissioners, aided by UPD staff, voted unanimously and with no stir of conscience to go ahead with killing the geese in June/July. AS spoken by Rohn Koester, the problem with Crystal Lake Park is not the geese, it is the Park District, and its inability to listen and speak with the community. Wow?so tonight was a perfect example of that. Some of us who spoke tonight, and protested today at noon by the park, really want to go ahead with protests, street theater, and awareness raising. It turns out that social distancing is really fun when we?re protesting?it makes us look like a much bigger group because we?re 6 feet apart! I miss you guys. So tomorrow at 12 noon we?ll once again meet at park Street and Broadway for an hour, and plan and plot in between talking to the cars going past. (Today EVERY car honked in favor of our message to not kill the geese, save for one grumpy guy. ) And we?ll start planning on meeting. I look forward to street theater in the park, to raise awareness and fun! Let me know if you want to be part of this. And geese, we will try so hard to prevent them from killing you, killing us. Though I might sound cheerful, I?m absolutely trembling with sadness for us, for you. Susan -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: download.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 36494 bytes Desc: not available URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Wed May 13 02:43:40 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 21:43:40 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Park Commissioners & Staff vote to KILL THE GEESE Message-ID: [image: download.jpg] Hi friends?Despite eloquent testimonies by towns-people AGAINST ?Charity Harvest? (the procedure that kills geese and tries to give away their carcasses as ?meat?) the Board of Commissioners, aided by UPD staff, voted unanimously and with no stir of conscience to go ahead with killing the geese in June/July. AS spoken by Rohn Koester, the problem with Crystal Lake Park is not the geese, it is the Park District, and its inability to listen and speak with the community. Wow?so tonight was a perfect example of that. Some of us who spoke tonight, and protested today at noon by the park, really want to go ahead with protests, street theater, and awareness raising. It turns out that social distancing is really fun when we?re protesting?it makes us look like a much bigger group because we?re 6 feet apart! I miss you guys. So tomorrow at 12 noon we?ll once again meet at park Street and Broadway for an hour, and plan and plot in between talking to the cars going past. (Today EVERY car honked in favor of our message to not kill the geese, save for one grumpy guy. ) And we?ll start planning on meeting. I look forward to street theater in the park, to raise awareness and fun! Let me know if you want to be part of this. And geese, we will try so hard to prevent them from killing you, killing us. Though I might sound cheerful, I?m absolutely trembling with sadness for us, for you. Susan -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: download.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 36494 bytes Desc: not available URL: From niloofar.peace at gmail.com Wed May 13 05:52:12 2020 From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 00:52:12 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Park Commissioners & Staff vote to KILL THE GEESE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can't be there tomorrow but let's have a meeting as soon as possible. BTW, who do those cold-blooded gang represent? The area businesses? Niloofar On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 9:44 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > [image: download.jpg] > Hi friends?Despite eloquent testimonies by towns-people AGAINST ?Charity > Harvest? (the procedure that kills geese and tries to give away their > carcasses as ?meat?) the Board of Commissioners, aided by UPD staff, voted > unanimously and with no stir of conscience to go ahead with killing the > geese in June/July. AS spoken by Rohn Koester, the problem with Crystal > Lake Park is not the geese, it is the Park District, and its inability to > listen and speak with the community. Wow?so tonight was a perfect example > of that. > > Some of us who spoke tonight, and protested today at noon by the park, > really want to go ahead with protests, street theater, and awareness > raising. It turns out that social distancing is really fun when we?re > protesting?it makes us look like a much bigger group because we?re 6 feet > apart! I miss you guys. > > So tomorrow at 12 noon we?ll once again meet at park Street and Broadway > for an hour, and plan and plot in between talking to the cars going past. > (Today EVERY car honked in favor of our message to not kill the geese, save > for one grumpy guy. ) > > And we?ll start planning on meeting. I look forward to street theater in > the park, to raise awareness and fun! > > Let me know if you want to be part of this. > > And geese, we will try so hard to prevent them from killing you, killing > us. Though I might sound cheerful, I?m absolutely trembling with sadness > for us, for you. > Susan > > > -- > *Susan Parenti* > *Educational Coordinator * > > *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net > > *Like us on Facebook !* > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: download.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 36494 bytes Desc: not available URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Wed May 13 08:38:52 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 03:38:52 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Park Commissioners & Staff vote to KILL THE GEESE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will put up money for SAVE THE CRYSTAL LAKE GEESE bumper stickers. If you get me a snappy design before 2 pm Wednesday can have them printed by Friday at the latest. How many do you think you can give away? Next we need to think about electoral solutions. At least 2 commissioners are up for re-election in 2021. We need to find people to challenge them?find candidates now and start the campaign. Deb Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2020, at 12:52 AM, Niloofar Shambayati via Peace wrote: > > Can't be there tomorrow but let's have a meeting as soon as possible. BTW, who do those cold-blooded gang represent? The area businesses? > > Niloofar > >> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 9:44 PM Susan Parenti via Peace wrote: >> >> Hi friends?Despite eloquent testimonies by towns-people AGAINST ?Charity Harvest? (the procedure that kills geese and tries to give away their carcasses as ?meat?) the Board of Commissioners, aided by UPD staff, voted unanimously and with no stir of conscience to go ahead with killing the geese in June/July. AS spoken by Rohn Koester, the problem with Crystal Lake Park is not the geese, it is the Park District, and its inability to listen and speak with the community. Wow?so tonight was a perfect example of that. >> >> Some of us who spoke tonight, and protested today at noon by the park, really want to go ahead with protests, street theater, and awareness raising. It turns out that social distancing is really fun when we?re protesting?it makes us look like a much bigger group because we?re 6 feet apart! I miss you guys. >> >> So tomorrow at 12 noon we?ll once again meet at park Street and Broadway for an hour, and plan and plot in between talking to the cars going past. (Today EVERY car honked in favor of our message to not kill the geese, save for one grumpy guy. ) >> >> And we?ll start planning on meeting. I look forward to street theater in the park, to raise awareness and fun! >> >> Let me know if you want to be part of this. >> >> And geese, we will try so hard to prevent them from killing you, killing us. Though I might sound cheerful, I?m absolutely trembling with sadness for us, for you. >> Susan >> >> >> -- >> Susan Parenti >> Educational Coordinator >> >> The School for Designing a Society www.designingasociety.net >> >> Like us on Facebook! >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed May 13 11:17:45 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 04:17:45 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Park Commissioners & Staff vote to KILL THE GEESE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great idea Deb, Niloofar. See you again at noon today Susan. > On May 13, 2020, at 01:38, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace wrote: > > I will put up money for SAVE THE CRYSTAL LAKE GEESE bumper stickers. If you get me a snappy design before 2 pm Wednesday can have them printed by Friday at the latest. How many do you think you can give away? > > Next we need to think about electoral solutions. At least 2 commissioners are up for re-election in 2021. We need to find people to challenge them?find candidates now and start the campaign. > > Deb > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2020, at 12:52 AM, Niloofar Shambayati via Peace > wrote: > >> Can't be there tomorrow but let's have a meeting as soon as possible. BTW, who do those cold-blooded gang represent? The area businesses? >> >> Niloofar >> >> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 9:44 PM Susan Parenti via Peace > wrote: >> >> Hi friends?Despite eloquent testimonies by towns-people AGAINST ?Charity Harvest? (the procedure that kills geese and tries to give away their carcasses as ?meat?) the Board of Commissioners, aided by UPD staff, voted unanimously and with no stir of conscience to go ahead with killing the geese in June/July. AS spoken by Rohn Koester, the problem with Crystal Lake Park is not the geese, it is the Park District, and its inability to listen and speak with the community. Wow?so tonight was a perfect example of that. >> >> Some of us who spoke tonight, and protested today at noon by the park, really want to go ahead with protests, street theater, and awareness raising. It turns out that social distancing is really fun when we?re protesting?it makes us look like a much bigger group because we?re 6 feet apart! I miss you guys. >> >> So tomorrow at 12 noon we?ll once again meet at park Street and Broadway for an hour, and plan and plot in between talking to the cars going past. (Today EVERY car honked in favor of our message to not kill the geese, save for one grumpy guy. ) >> >> And we?ll start planning on meeting. I look forward to street theater in the park, to raise awareness and fun! >> >> Let me know if you want to be part of this. >> >> And geese, we will try so hard to prevent them from killing you, killing us. Though I might sound cheerful, I?m absolutely trembling with sadness for us, for you. >> Susan >> >> >> -- >> Susan Parenti >> Educational Coordinator >> >> The School for Designing a Society www.designingasociety.net >> >> Like us on Facebook ! >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbw292002 at gmail.com Wed May 13 17:41:50 2020 From: jbw292002 at gmail.com (John W.) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 12:41:50 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Park Commissioners & Staff vote to KILL THE GEESE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:39 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: I will put up money for SAVE THE CRYSTAL LAKE GEESE bumper stickers. If you > get me a snappy design before 2 pm Wednesday can have them printed by > Friday at the latest. How many do you think you can give away? > > Next we need to think about electoral solutions. At least 2 commissioners > are up for re-election in 2021. We need to find people to challenge > them?find candidates now and start the campaign. > I would suggest that if there are any Greens left in C-U, a couple of them might be interested in running for Urbana Park District commissioner. And what about you, Deb? You're certainly knowledgeable enough! John Wason > Deb > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2020, at 12:52 AM, Niloofar Shambayati via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > Can't be there tomorrow but let's have a meeting as soon as possible. BTW, > who do those cold-blooded gang represent? The area businesses? > > Niloofar > > On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 9:44 PM Susan Parenti via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> >> Hi friends?Despite eloquent testimonies by towns-people AGAINST ?Charity >> Harvest? (the procedure that kills geese and tries to give away their >> carcasses as ?meat?) the Board of Commissioners, aided by UPD staff, voted >> unanimously and with no stir of conscience to go ahead with killing the >> geese in June/July. AS spoken by Rohn Koester, the problem with Crystal >> Lake Park is not the geese, it is the Park District, and its inability to >> listen and speak with the community. Wow?so tonight was a perfect example >> of that. >> >> Some of us who spoke tonight, and protested today at noon by the park, >> really want to go ahead with protests, street theater, and awareness >> raising. It turns out that social distancing is really fun when we?re >> protesting?it makes us look like a much bigger group because we?re 6 feet >> apart! I miss you guys. >> >> So tomorrow at 12 noon we?ll once again meet at park Street and Broadway >> for an hour, and plan and plot in between talking to the cars going past. >> (Today EVERY car honked in favor of our message to not kill the geese, save >> for one grumpy guy. ) >> >> And we?ll start planning on meeting. I look forward to street theater in >> the park, to raise awareness and fun! >> >> Let me know if you want to be part of this. >> >> And geese, we will try so hard to prevent them from killing you, killing >> us. Though I might sound cheerful, I?m absolutely trembling with sadness >> for us, for you. >> Susan >> >> >> -- >> *Susan Parenti* >> *Educational Coordinator * >> >> *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net >> >> *Like us on Facebook !* >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Wed May 13 18:21:08 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 13:21:08 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Park Commissioners & Staff vote to KILL THE GEESE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66D58377-B8C6-4C20-B22D-684A3F0A8D5C@gmail.com> One of my wedding vows was a promise never to run for elected office. I can have Minuteman do the design for the bumper sticker. Again, how many are needed? 100 to start? Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2020, at 12:41 PM, John W. wrote: > >> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:39 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace wrote: >> > >> I will put up money for SAVE THE CRYSTAL LAKE GEESE bumper stickers. If you get me a snappy design before 2 pm Wednesday can have them printed by Friday at the latest. How many do you think you can give away? >> >> Next we need to think about electoral solutions. At least 2 commissioners are up for re-election in 2021. We need to find people to challenge them?find candidates now and start the campaign. > > I would suggest that if there are any Greens left in C-U, a couple of them might be interested in running for Urbana Park District commissioner. And what about you, Deb? You're certainly knowledgeable enough! > > John Wason > > > >> Deb >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 13, 2020, at 12:52 AM, Niloofar Shambayati via Peace wrote: >>> >>> Can't be there tomorrow but let's have a meeting as soon as possible. BTW, who do those cold-blooded gang represent? The area businesses? >>> >>> Niloofar >>> >>>> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 9:44 PM Susan Parenti via Peace wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi friends?Despite eloquent testimonies by towns-people AGAINST ?Charity Harvest? (the procedure that kills geese and tries to give away their carcasses as ?meat?) the Board of Commissioners, aided by UPD staff, voted unanimously and with no stir of conscience to go ahead with killing the geese in June/July. AS spoken by Rohn Koester, the problem with Crystal Lake Park is not the geese, it is the Park District, and its inability to listen and speak with the community. Wow?so tonight was a perfect example of that. >>>> >>>> Some of us who spoke tonight, and protested today at noon by the park, really want to go ahead with protests, street theater, and awareness raising. It turns out that social distancing is really fun when we?re protesting?it makes us look like a much bigger group because we?re 6 feet apart! I miss you guys. >>>> >>>> So tomorrow at 12 noon we?ll once again meet at park Street and Broadway for an hour, and plan and plot in between talking to the cars going past. (Today EVERY car honked in favor of our message to not kill the geese, save for one grumpy guy. ) >>>> >>>> And we?ll start planning on meeting. I look forward to street theater in the park, to raise awareness and fun! >>>> >>>> Let me know if you want to be part of this. >>>> >>>> And geese, we will try so hard to prevent them from killing you, killing us. Though I might sound cheerful, I?m absolutely trembling with sadness for us, for you. >>>> Susan >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Susan Parenti >>>> Educational Coordinator >>>> >>>> The School for Designing a Society www.designingasociety.net >>>> >>>> Like us on Facebook! >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Peace mailing list >>>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Wed May 13 20:13:24 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 13:13:24 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Park Commissioners & Staff vote to KILL THE GEESE In-Reply-To: <66D58377-B8C6-4C20-B22D-684A3F0A8D5C@gmail.com> References: <66D58377-B8C6-4C20-B22D-684A3F0A8D5C@gmail.com> Message-ID: As a current Officer with the local Prairie Greens, I don?t know of anyone within the organization interested in running for any office.. A candidate for this position should be someone knowledgeable on all aspects of the park and environment. Yes, Deb or Susan would be perfect. > On May 13, 2020, at 11:21, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace wrote: > > One of my wedding vows was a promise never to run for elected office. I can have Minuteman do the design for the bumper sticker. Again, how many are needed? 100 to start? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2020, at 12:41 PM, John W. > wrote: > >> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:39 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace > wrote: >> >> I will put up money for SAVE THE CRYSTAL LAKE GEESE bumper stickers. If you get me a snappy design before 2 pm Wednesday can have them printed by Friday at the latest. How many do you think you can give away? >> >> Next we need to think about electoral solutions. At least 2 commissioners are up for re-election in 2021. We need to find people to challenge them?find candidates now and start the campaign. >> >> I would suggest that if there are any Greens left in C-U, a couple of them might be interested in running for Urbana Park District commissioner. And what about you, Deb? You're certainly knowledgeable enough! >> >> John Wason >> >> >> >> Deb >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 13, 2020, at 12:52 AM, Niloofar Shambayati via Peace > wrote: >> >>> Can't be there tomorrow but let's have a meeting as soon as possible. BTW, who do those cold-blooded gang represent? The area businesses? >>> >>> Niloofar >>> >>> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 9:44 PM Susan Parenti via Peace > wrote: >>> >>> Hi friends?Despite eloquent testimonies by towns-people AGAINST ?Charity Harvest? (the procedure that kills geese and tries to give away their carcasses as ?meat?) the Board of Commissioners, aided by UPD staff, voted unanimously and with no stir of conscience to go ahead with killing the geese in June/July. AS spoken by Rohn Koester, the problem with Crystal Lake Park is not the geese, it is the Park District, and its inability to listen and speak with the community. Wow?so tonight was a perfect example of that. >>> >>> Some of us who spoke tonight, and protested today at noon by the park, really want to go ahead with protests, street theater, and awareness raising. It turns out that social distancing is really fun when we?re protesting?it makes us look like a much bigger group because we?re 6 feet apart! I miss you guys. >>> >>> So tomorrow at 12 noon we?ll once again meet at park Street and Broadway for an hour, and plan and plot in between talking to the cars going past. (Today EVERY car honked in favor of our message to not kill the geese, save for one grumpy guy. ) >>> >>> And we?ll start planning on meeting. I look forward to street theater in the park, to raise awareness and fun! >>> >>> Let me know if you want to be part of this. >>> >>> And geese, we will try so hard to prevent them from killing you, killing us. Though I might sound cheerful, I?m absolutely trembling with sadness for us, for you. >>> Susan >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Susan Parenti >>> Educational Coordinator >>> >>> The School for Designing a Society www.designingasociety.net >>> >>> Like us on Facebook ! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Peace mailing list >>> Peace at lists.chambana.net >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Sat May 16 00:35:10 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 19:35:10 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Free Bumper Stickers 'SAve the Geese'-- Farmers Market Sat, 9:30 to 11am!! Message-ID: Hi friends---*thanks to Niloofar& Debra--bumper stickers FREE for Save the Geese at tomorrow's Farmer's Market! at Lincoln Square, 9:30am to 11am. * Where will we be? We haven't reserved a table, but listen for geese honks* & accordion music *---and that's where you'll find us. There's been complications because of the virus, but we've figured out a virus free way to give you a bumper sticker and sheet of who-to-write-to-protest in a way that strengthens our hearts and diminishes health hazards. See you tomorrow. So looking forward to see your shining courageous faces. --hey! we're geese! Susan [image: download.jpg] -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sun May 17 01:02:05 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 18:02:05 -0700 Subject: [Peace] =?utf-8?q?The_murderous_pseudoscience_of_=E2=80=9Cherd_i?= =?utf-8?q?mmunity=E2=80=9D?= Message-ID: The murderous pseudoscience of ?herd immunity? 16 May 2020 On May 12, Foreign Affairs, the leading journal of the US foreign policy establishment, carried an article arguing for large portions of the US and world population to be infected with COVID-19. The article is headlined "Sweden's Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World's: Herd Immunity Is the Only Realistic Option?the Question Is How to Get There Safely.? It concludes, ?Efforts to contain the virus are doomed to fail in many countries, and a large percentage of people will be infected in the end.? It asserts that ?managing?rather than defeating?the pandemic is the only realistic option.? The central argument made by the proponents of ?herd immunity? is that once enough people become infected with COVID-19, perhaps 50?70 percent of the population, rates of infection will naturally fall. As a corollary, the proponents of herd immunity claim that efforts to contain the spread of the pandemic, such as testing, contact tracing and isolation of those infected, as well as the closure of schools and businesses, should be abandoned to allow the disease to spread as widely as possible. Two developments this week have exposed this pseudoscientific theory as false and dangerous. In congressional testimony on Tuesday, Dr. Anthony Fauci made clear that there exists no conclusive evidence that infection with COVID-19 results in longterm immunity, seconding the warnings of the World Health Organization (WHO) last month. Moreover, countries all over the world have begun reporting the results of large-scale tests of their populations for COVID-19 antibodies. Universally, these tests have shown that, even in areas with the worst outbreaks, only a small fraction of the population has been infected. One study released this week found that just five percent of the Spanish population has COVID-19 antibodies. This is despite the fact that Spain has the highest number of COVID-19 cases as a share of population of any large country in the world. Even if recovery from infection guarantees immunity, which again is not clear, the hypothetical immunity for five percent of the Spanish population cost 27,459 lives. This means that the 50 percent infection rate necessary to see a decrease in cases would require the sacrifice of a quarter million human beings. If similar figures hold in the United States, with its 330 million people, a hypothetical ?herd immunity? would require the sacrifice of nearly two million people. It is for this reason that WHO spokesman Mike Ryan responded in disgust this week when asked about the policy of ?herd immunity.? ?Humans are not herds,? said the veteran Irish epidemiologist. He said the term is relevant only to the field of animal husbandry, in which an ?individual animal in that sense doesn?t matter from the perspective of the brutal economics of those decisions.? The use of the term, he said, ?can lead to a very brutal arithmetic which does not put people and lives and suffering at the center of that equation. ?This idea that maybe countries who had lax measures and haven?t done anything will all of a sudden magically reach some herd immunity, and so what if we lose a few old people along the way. This is a really dangerous calculation.? To justify their utilization of this ?dangerous calculation,? the authors of the Foreign Affairs article cite the ?Swedish model.? They write: Swedish authorities have not officially declared a goal of reaching herd immunity, which most scientists believe is achieved when more than 60 percent of the population has had the virus. But augmenting immunity is no doubt part of the government?s broader strategy?or at least a likely consequence of keeping schools, restaurants, and most businesses open. They continue: Rather than declare a lockdown or a state of emergency, Sweden asked its citizens to practice social distancing on a mostly voluntary basis. Swedish authorities? eschewed harsh controls, fines, and policing. Swedes have changed their behavior, but not as profoundly as the citizens of other Western democracies. Many restaurants remain open, although they are lightly trafficked; young children are still in school. However, Sweden?s approach to the COVID-19 pandemic has been fiercely criticized by doctors, scientists and academics, thousands of whom have signed a letter urging the government to pursue a more aggressive policy. These critics point to the fact that the country has suffered a substantially more deadly outbreak than its neighbors, with 361 deaths per million people compared to Denmark (93 per million), Norway (43), Finland (53) and Iceland (29). Sweden?s wildly irresponsible policies have given ammunition to the far right internationally, which has used it as an example for arguing for a premature reopening of businesses and schools. Like all advocates of the policy of ?herd immunity,? the authors of the article, who include a political scientist, a sociologist and an economist, do not attempt to square their claims with the universal statements by epidemiologists, public health experts and the WHO that COVID-19 can and must be contained through conventional public health measures. They simply assert, in the face of all available evidence, that it is impossible to control the disease and prevent people from being infected. Countries that have invested in testing, quarantining and contact tracing, in line with the prescriptions of the WHO, have brought the daily number of new cases into the single or double digits. South Korea, an early center of the outbreak, has had only 260 people die. China, the country in which the disease originated, has a death rate that is nearly 100 times lower than the United States. Malaysia has seen similarly low numbers. By contrast, the disastrous toll of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States, which has five times more cases than any other country, is directly related to the fact that the United States failed to conduct any widespread testing of its population for months, as indicated by the testimony Thursday of ousted health official Dr. Rick Bright. It is worth noting that the article in Foreign Affairs excludes the word ?testing.? That is because it is thoroughly dishonest. It uses lockdown measures as a strawman for all measures to contain the pandemic, decrying the economic and social costs of lockdowns as an argument for inaction. In reality, the WHO has made clear that lockdowns are only a temporary measure to prevent health systems from being overwhelmed, and should be used to provide the time needed to massively expand public health care infrastructure to stop the pandemic. Regardless of whether they publicly embrace ?herd immunity? or not, the reality is that no country in North America or Europe has a plan to prevent the widespread infection of its population with COVID-19. The temporary lockdowns carried out in the United States and Europe have not been used to build up the necessary infrastructure for testing, quarantining and contact tracing. Rather, states and countries are reopening regardless of their rates of infection, testing or medical capacity, all but guaranteeing, in line with the warnings of Fauci and Bright, a major resurgence of the disease, whether in the near term, during the next flu season or both. In accordance with the ?brutal economics? of capitalism, the lives lost to the COVID-19 pandemic are simply the cost of doing business. While trillions of dollars have been spent propping up financial markets, no serious efforts have been made to contain the pandemic, and whatever mitigation measures have been put in place, including the closure of businesses, are being rapidly abandoned. The efforts by the ruling class to counterpose workers? lives to their livelihoods is an entirely false choice. Both can be defended with the necessary allocation of social resources to stop and eradicate COVID-19 and all other communicable diseases. Non-essential workplaces must remain closed for as long as it takes for these measures to be put in place. But containing the pandemic requires an investment in social infrastructure that the capitalist class is not willing to make. The COVID-19 pandemic has made clear the utter incompatibility of the capitalist system with the preservation of the most basic social right: the right to life. Andre Damon WSWS.ORG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naiman.uiuc at gmail.com Tue May 19 11:12:03 2020 From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com (Robert Naiman) Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 07:12:03 -0400 Subject: [Peace] Hassan El-Tayyab/Jehan Hakim: "When the iron is hot, strike!" Message-ID: Some people claim that Pwogwessive Democwats would need a Hall Pass from Steny Pelosi & Nancy Hoyer to do this. But the Oracle prophesied that one day, there would again be a Pwogwessive Democwat who would be made of *sterner stuff.* On a clear night soon, that one Pwogwessive Democwat will wake from uneasy dreams, see the North Star, and start Walking to Freedom. Please RT the groundlings linked below. Let's try to "ratio" the Distinguished Representative from the Valley on this. I have heard that the Distinguished Representative from the Valley is sometimes responsive to agitation on Twitter. I have heard that was a reason why he was the only incumbent Pwogwessive Democwat to endorse Dragonslayer AOC over Crowley. https://twitter.com/HassanElTayyab/status/1262538895549497345 https://twitter.com/Jehan_Hakim/status/1262547142599573504 [image: image.png] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 932792 bytes Desc: not available URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Tue May 19 23:44:03 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 16:44:03 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Shameful treatment of the elderly is further proof Sweden got its Covid-19 strategy all wrong Message-ID: Shameful treatment of the elderly is further proof Sweden got its Covid-19 strategy all wrong 19 May, 2020 15:30 Get short URL FILE PHOTO ? Getty Images / Maskot 163 Follow RT on By Marcello Ferrada de Noli, Swedish professor emeritus of public health sciences esp. epidemiology, former Research Fellow at Harvard Medical School. With a coronavirus death rate that is among the world?s worst and shocking stories of neglect emerging from the country?s care homes, Sweden?s political and healthcare leaders have a lot to answer for. One of the most notable features of the Covid-19 pandemic has been the different ways countries across the world have responded. This has obviously resulted in varying outcomes. Some nations have fared reasonably well. Others less so. And some, such as Sweden, have had a terrible time. On May 14, it achieved the unenviable record of having the highest number of confirmed daily Covid-19 deaths per capita reported?over a seven-day rolling period . ALSO ON RT.COM ?Swedish model? of no-lockdown response to Covid-19 ?WORKED REGARDLESS OF EXCESSIVE DEATHS,? its architect says The chief epidemiologist at Sweden?s public health agency Anders Tegnell admitted that such a high death toll is ?horrifying ? ? a dramatic change of tack from earlier in the crisis, when he claimed that the body count was perhaps ?not the most important part.? These results come, remember, from a country that was targeting?herd immunity and, according to its ambassador to the US, Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter, believed it could be reached sometime in May in Stockholm. Sick and dying Besides the dramatic number of fatalities, what is emerging in Sweden is a dreadful catalog of inappropriate healthcare provided for the elderly, with sick and dying people denied resources which should be widely available. It is worth noting that?90 percent of the total Covid-19 deaths in the country are of people aged 70 and older, and that?half of these occurred in nursing homes. There is, for example, one case under?investigation by prosecutors of a care home in Stockholm where over a third of the elderly who lived there reportedly died after coronavirus ran amok. In a?piece titled ?The treatment of Sweden?s old and vulnerable is a ?catastrophe??, the Telegraph reports the story of a local Stockholm politician, Bjorn Branngard, who got a call from the nurse in charge of the care home where his mother was. The nurse asked him if it was ok to move his mother to another section. ?Why?? inquired Branngard, ?Because it?s only her and one other person who is still alive. Everyone else is dead,? she said. Eventually, his mother died too, just a few days later, said the report. ALSO ON RT.COM Sweden?s flawed coronavirus battle plan hits the poor & elderly, resulting in worst death count among Nordic countries To their credit, some health workers have been prepared to speak out on the shocking treatment given to the elderly. As I reported in the?Indicter , registered Nurse Latifa Lofvenberg witnessed the demise of many patients living in care homes, and told of how they were?denied oxygen to aid their respiratory problems, resulting in ?horrible? deaths. Her bravery in exposing this led to her being?fired from her job after her comments were posted on YouTube. Confirmation of this macabre practice was given by a respected professor of geriatric medicine, Yngve Gustafson, in an?interview on TV Channel 4. He admitted, ?What most often is done with the elderly at nursery homes, after deciding not to take them to the hospital, is that they prescribe palliatives usually including both morphine and midazolam. This means that one quickly suffocates the patients, because both drugs deteriorate breathing.? Hospital complaints But it?s not only in care homes that discriminatory healthcare behavior against the elderly been observed. It has also taken place in hospitals, according to a growing number of reports filed with the Swedish Health and Social Care Inspectorate (IVO). These complaints surround patients denied treatment at intensive care units (ICU) at hospitals in the Stockholm Region, despite places being available (as they still are). IVO has?described the reports ? which also concern the Karolinska University in Solna ? as ?serious.? One complaint filed with IVO was also published in the newspaper Expressen.?It read : ?We are concerned about the process of selection for respiratory care among patients with severe Covid-19 infection in the Stockholm region. We have repeatedly found that those patients who are deemed to be in need of respiratory care for a long time (e.g. a couple of weeks) are denied intensive care with the argument that a younger patient with better prognosis may need the place in a few days.? ALSO ON RT.COM So one Swedish academic quotes another Swedish academic on flaws of Sweden's Covid-19 policy... and that?s RUSSIAN propaganda? According to Dr Elda Sparrelid, Stockholm Region chief physician, there is no patient data linked to the cases claimed by the filing doctors. ?Therefore, it cannot be investigated whether someone received the wrong care or not,? she added. The situation emerged after the National Board of Health and Welfare issued instructions ? described in an?earlier article ? to handle priorities in case the ICUs reached ?disaster? mode, where resources would be depleted and no longer available to all. But Swedish hospitals have not been in that critical situation, and ICU beds have remained available. ICU head at Karolinska Hospital, Dr Bjorn Persson,?admitted on May 5 that only ?around 115 of the 140 available intensive care beds are currently occupied.? Nevertheless, while Chief Doctor Persson denied that patients ?who had still had a chance of survival were not treated,? medical staff members gave a different account, and IVO chief lawyer Linda Almqvist admitted it?initiated an investigation . Delays in seeing doctors Another problem has been that scores of elderly Swedes with Covid-19 have had to wait to receive health care at hospitals, or simply told to?stay at home for an inappropriate length of time. Some have even died without ever getting the opportunity to?see a doctor. Further evidence of the neglect of the elderly in Sweden is the apparent determination of the local authorities to manipulate, or even cover up, the extent of the scandal. An?exposure by a regional newspaper, Ekuriren, laid this bare: In eight out of nine municipalities in Sormland (south of Stockholm), it alleged that authorities ?deliberately withheld the information in order to prevent media scrutiny and public transparency? regarding the number of elderly Covid-19 infected in care homes. In summary, the management of the pandemic by the Swedish public health authorities is not only an affront to scientific epidemiology, but also compromises the medical ethics and human rights of a country that considers itself a ?humanitarian superpower.? It's?just as well other countries have not followed suit. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carl at newsfromneptune.com Thu May 21 11:50:40 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 06:50:40 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Cuomo's Cruelty References: <5ec668ebacd1d_29073fea754d94d83028797@ip-10-0-0-212.mail> Message-ID: <97009849-C175-4CA4-B1EE-4E36D7A84222@newsfromneptune.com> > > C.G., > > Yesterday NYCC members came together for a day of mourning and action. In 8 locations across NYC and Long Island we held vigils in memory of those we lost to COVID 19. And we raised our voices to fight for those of us who will die if we continue to be left out of the recovery. > > Click here to watch a video from the action. > > We also released a new report: Cuomo?s Cruelty: How New York?s Governor Abandoned Undocumented New Yorkers. Click here to read our report. > > COVID-19 is disproportionately killing and impacting those living in low-income and immigrant communities. Undocumented immigrants are facing devastating job loss without access to unemployment benefits or federal stimulus. Undocumented workers represent an inordinate share of the workforce in the essential services industry, and are in the frontline of the crisis with virtually no protections. Despite paying $11.74 billion in taxes each year, undocumented workers have been left with virtually no relief > > Please click here and donate to NYCOFI?s COVID-19 relief fund. > > So far NYCOFI has distributed more than $25,000 in direct relief. 86% of applicants to the fund reported that they were ineligible for unemployment insurance or any government stimulus payments. 94% stated there were no partners or family members in the house with work. 69% have children to provide for, with almost all applicants expressing an inability to pay rent or purchase food. > > And the crisis worsens every day. 1 in 4 New Yorkers did not pay their rent this month and June 1st is right around the corner. NYCOFI is preparing to make a second round of relief payments shortly, but more funds are needed. Click here to contribute. > > Our communities need government-scale solutions for renters and undocumented people. We will continue to raise money and to fight until President Trump or Governor Cuomo enacts a recovery for all. > Best, > > Dorisela Hernandez, NYCC > > Sent via ActionNetwork.org . To update your email address, change your name or address, or to stop receiving emails from New York Communities for Change (NYCC), please click here . > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Thu May 21 12:12:52 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 05:12:52 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Cancel the Rents and Mortgages! Car Protest Message-ID: Message from: Party for Socialism and Liberation - Champaign-Urbana SAT, MAY 30 AT 2 PM CDT Cancel the Rents and Mortgages! Car Protest Lincoln Square Mall, corner of Illinois St. and Broadway Ave., Urbana "Join thousands of people across the country in car caravan protests on Saturday, May 30 to demand the cancellation of rent, mortgages and all debts to landlords for the duration of the pandemic. We will meet at 2pm on Saturday, May 30th at Lincoln Square Mall in Urbana, on the corner of Illinois St. and Broadway Ave. The patchwork of city and state moratoriums on evictions are not enough. In a few months when these moratoriums are lifted and the rents come due -- we will still not have the money! Protesters will adhere to social distancing guidelines and requirements, including wearing masks, that have been established to respond to the Coronavirus outbreak. If we can't work, we can't pay! Cancel the Rents and Mortgages! Make the Banks Pay! No Foreclosures for Homeowners, Small Landlords, and Small Businesses!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Fri May 22 21:54:53 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 16:54:53 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Request for FOIA for Urbana Park district's depredation permit Message-ID: Hello, Susan Henry of Tuscola has spoken with Ben Williamson of the IDNR concerning the Urbana Park District?s depredation permit. Ben Williamson spoke with Ms Henry concerning the need for upmost accuracy in the depredation permit, and we are following this up concerning the Urbana Park District?s permit request. We request via FOIA that a copy of information UPD has sent IDNR, be sent to me and my colleagues. We are concerned about some of the information the UPD has sent to you. Particularly, we are interested in how the UPD has accounted for community engagement; also we are interested to know what is its responsibility for presenting certain images of atrocities committed by geese that did NOT happen in our park, but were taken from elsewhere, in order to raise public condemnation and horror of the geese. We also feel that there is no transparency about when the killing/culling of our geese could take place; we would like some ball-park estimation of that, also. In the past the UPD has given inaccurate schedules of their operations, and we fear that this may be another such occasion. Thank you, Susan Parenti and colleagues From carl at newsfromneptune.com Sat May 23 17:40:35 2020 From: carl at newsfromneptune.com (C. G. Estabrook) Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 12:40:35 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: U.S Military Threat Against Iranian Tankers: An Act of International Piracy That Can Escalate into a War References: <5ec95f662943c_c8f53f7ecc5c6004597220@ip-10-0-0-212.mail> Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "U.S. Peace Council via ActionNetwork.org" > Subject: U.S Military Threat Against Iranian Tankers: An Act of International Piracy That Can Escalate into a War > Date: May 23, 2020 at 12:37:42 PM CDT > To: cgestabrook at gmail.com > Reply-To: USPC at USPeaceCouncil.org > > > U.S. MILITARY THREAT AGAINST IRANIAN TANKERS: AN ACT OF INTERNATIONAL PIRACY THAT CAN ESCALATE INTO A WAR > > May 23, 2020 > Iran?s daring decision to dispatch five oil tankers carrying the much-needed fuel for the struggling people of Venezuela is a definitive challenge to U.S. government?s illegal policy of unilateral economic sanctions and its naval blockade of Venezuela. Iran?s action has created a decisive test of the Trump administration?s willingness to continue its violations of international law and the UN Charter by taking military action against Iranian tankers. > > The U.S. Peace Council strongly condemns any military actions against the Iranian tankers and calls upon and the Trump administration and the U.S. government to put an end to its violations of the UN Charter immediately. > > As Iranian tankers approach Venezuelan waters ? the first tanker is expected to enter Venezuelan territorial waters on Sunday ? the Trump administration is scrambling to decide how to respond to a challenge that can determine the future of its policy of unilateral coercive measures against one-quarter of humanity. ?We?ve got it [Venezuela] surrounded, it?s surrounded at a level that nobody even knows but they know. We are watching to see what happens,? he commented on the situation on May 20th. > > Indeed, this has created serious dilemma for the U.S. government. A military action against these tankers would be a clear case of international piracy that could lead to military confrontations, not only with the Venezuelan armed forces who are planning to escort these tankers in Venezuelan waters, but also in the Middle East as Iran would be expected to respond to such an act. It would also lead to increasing tensions with Russia. The Russian Foreign Ministry has already warned against any U.S. actions to block the Iranian tankers. > > Allowing Iranian tankers to port, on the other hand, would be the first sign of inability of the United States government to enforce its sanctions policy even near its own shores, and would trigger numerous additional acts of defiance by other sanctioned states. This could mean the beginning of the unraveling of U.S. unilateral sanctions policy, something that would have significant negative repercussions for U.S. imperialism?s policy of ?full spectrum dominance? of the world. > > The outcome of the current challenge posed by Iran and the resistance of Venezuela ? if the U.S government does not act irrationally ? will have determining effects on the future of international relations and world peace. It will pave the way for a new phase of peoples? struggle against illegally-imposed unilateral coercive measures and for restoring peoples? rights to national sovereignty and self-determination throughout the world. > > We call upon all supporters of peace and international law around the world to contact the U.S. White House (+1 202 456-1111) and demand that the U.S. Government respect international law and not interfere with the porting of the Iranian oil tankers. > > Executive Committee > of the U.S. Peace Council > > *** > > U.S. Peace Council ? P.O. Box 3105, New Haven, CT 06515 ? (203) 387-0370 ? USPC at USPeaceCouncil.org? > ? https://uspeacecouncil.org ? https://www.facebook.com/USPeaceCouncil/ ? @USPeaceCouncil > > Sent via Action Network, a free online toolset anyone can use to organize. Click here to sign up and get started building an email list and creating online actions today. > Action Network is an open platform that empowers individuals and groups to organize for progressive causes. We encourage responsible activism, and do not support using the platform to take unlawful or other improper action. We do not control or endorse the conduct of users and make no representations of any kind about them. > You can unsubscribe or update your email address or change your name and address by changing your subscription preferences here . > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sun May 24 00:03:47 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 17:03:47 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Please join this protest! we'll use social distancing, masks, stay safe --and give out 300 bumper stickers for free! References: Message-ID: > From: Susan Parenti > Subject: Please join this protest! we'll use social distancing, masks, stay safe --and give out 300 bumper stickers for free! > > > This Tuesday, May 26, 12 noon to 1pm, protest the Park District's decision to kill 60-100 geese next month, as the 'only way possible' to stop overpopulation. We've gathered over 8 reports of successful treatment of overpopulated geese in cities like ours, where new and humane methods are used--but Urbana Park District refuses to listen. In the name of living creatures, let's shout! Meet at Park Str & Broadway in Urbana. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sun May 24 14:15:53 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 07:15:53 -0700 Subject: [Peace] My letter to the local news: Message-ID: Email Print <>Save I was appalled when I read about the upcoming wild geese slaughter. Proponents have cloaked it in nice words, ?charity harvest.? But it?s still a slaughter of 60-100 wild geese, including families with goslings/babies. It?s ?to beautify the park? we?re told. The park is already beautiful in its natural habitat, with the geese a major attraction. If over-population is the problem, then there are remedies, as presented by community members at a park district planning meeting. Draconian methods of population control have never been effective, whether wildlife or human. We are living through dangerous, frightening times, the horrors of U.S. wars are continuing with little notice in Yemen, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria. Our provocations of Iran, China and Russia have us on the threshold of WWIII. The lives of people, the unemployed, the poor, those on the front lines, either health care workers, grocery clerks or delivery people are in daily jeopardy due to the coronavirus, and our capitalist system putting profit before people as our government continues with bipartisan proposals to further enrich the wealthy, while ignoring the plight of the working class and the most vulnerable. With the threat of global warming on our doorstep, the only enjoyment we have left is nature, please don?t take that away with more bloodletting. KAREN ARAM Urbana -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sun May 24 17:31:08 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 10:31:08 -0700 Subject: [Peace] CANCEL THE RENTS CAR PROTEST - May 30th In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Folks: > > Trump's failure to slow the COVID-19 outbreak or provide economic relief for workers and families has led to a nation-wide rent crisis. Millions of people were unable to pay their rents last month, and with the unemployment rate skyrocketing, more and more folks are at risk of eviction. > > Please join us in the Lincoln Square Mall parking lot this Saturday (30th) at 2:00 PM for a car & bike rally to demand the immediate cancellation of rent and mortgage payments. Check out the Facebook event here . > > This protest was organized by the Party for Socialism and Liberation as part of the national Cancel the Rents initiative, which is organizing simultaneous rallies in more than 40 cities. For more information on the Cancel the Rents initiative, go to CanceltheRents.org > > Please share the event and spread the word! > > Hope to see you there, > > ANSWER Coalition Champaign-Urbana > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jan at illinois.edu Sun May 24 19:32:16 2020 From: jan at illinois.edu (Predmore, Janice C) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 19:32:16 +0000 Subject: [Peace] My letter to the local news: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E8D040E-D466-4781-B5C7-11A945F3F19E@illinois.edu> Your letter is wide ranging, drawing in several topics that seem off topic. We?re contemplating a burgeoning flock of geese in our park. That the suggestion of removing a part of the flock has you thinking about recent wars (which I agree are awful & disgusting) is unfair to press on our park board as their responsibility to somehow ameliorate. My reaction to your claim that draconian measures to control population has never been effective ... just think back to your years in this area and count how many black bear, bobcat, common rat snake, and for that matter how many Native American families are you aware of ? In my opinion the numbers of Canada Goose in Crystal Lake park must be reduced. There will remain enough so that we can enjoy both them and the park. I support our hard working & thoughtful park personnel in the decision to reduce the flock numbers . Without malice, Jan Sent from my iPhone From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Sun May 24 19:52:41 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 14:52:41 -0500 Subject: [Peace] My letter to the local news: In-Reply-To: <6E8D040E-D466-4781-B5C7-11A945F3F19E@illinois.edu> References: <6E8D040E-D466-4781-B5C7-11A945F3F19E@illinois.edu> Message-ID: Hello Jan and other friends and acquaintances? What Karen and other letter-writers are pointing out is NOT an argument that there is no over-population of the geese?yes, we completely join you in seeing one of the problems as over-population. What we are pointing out is the means by which the overpopulation is addressed by UPD?culling, or killing?when there are new, humane and successful ways to influence the overpopulation. Viktoria Ford spent considerable time with Derek Liebert, and with the organization GeesePeace, describing the humane and effective way they (Geese Peace) control overpopulation. Our group of ?save the geese urbana? has found numerous examples of communities about our size, who have used effective and humane means to control overpopulation. Secondly,UPD gave us 11 days April 27 to May 9th, to participate in ?public dialogue? (via a 6 question survey), then had a vote, and that was it. They, the UPD, have been working on this culling step for three years. We had11 days?they?ve had 1,095 days. I applaud Karen for making connections in ways many of us wouldn?t. Please join us in a rally around the geese this Tuesday, May26, 12 noon to 1pm, at the corner of park and Broadway. (People must wear masks, keep 6 feet away). We hope to have a mike or megaphone, and will welcome all the varieties of opinions that people may have. We?re not looking for agreement?we?re looking for time and space for Community dialogue. Which our hardworking and thoughtful park personnel do not offer. We?re also inviting the park District personnel to attend and to speak with us, answer questions. Warmly, also without malice? Susan Parenti > On May 24, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Predmore, Janice C via Peace wrote: > > Your letter is wide ranging, drawing in several topics that seem off topic. We?re contemplating a burgeoning flock of geese in our park. > > That the suggestion of removing a part of the flock has you thinking about recent wars (which I agree are awful & disgusting) is unfair to press on our park board as their responsibility to somehow ameliorate. > > My reaction to your claim that draconian measures to control population has never been effective ... just think back to your years in this area and count how many black bear, bobcat, common rat snake, and for that matter how many Native American families are you aware of ? > > In my opinion the numbers of Canada Goose in Crystal Lake park must be reduced. There will remain enough so that we can enjoy both them and the park. I support our hard working & thoughtful park personnel in the decision to reduce the flock numbers . > > Without malice, > Jan > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From kmedina67 at gmail.com Sun May 24 20:41:59 2020 From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (kmedina67) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 15:41:59 -0500 Subject: [Peace] My letter to the local news: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5ecadc19.1c69fb81.2283a.fad9@mx.google.com> ?Well done Susan!Whoa, one of Jan Predmore's paragraphs basically says, "genocide works"!Well, yes, genocide does work. But it is WRONG.Basically, the park district built the ideal nursery for Canadian Geese. Short grass, a gentle non-rocky slope between the water and the grass, water, easy flight into the pond, and a complete lack of preditors (including black bear, bobcat, and rat snakes, and people (it is illegal to hunt Canadian Geese)). And then the park district blames the geese??All we are saying is killing the geese is not the answer. More geese will come. Because it is an ideal place for geese.?Changing the ideal geese conditions is one thing that should be done. 1) Plant taller native grasses that go right up to the pond. 2) make the slope a bit steeper (and more like a natural pond).?Change the pond part of the park from being entirely people- centric to more wildlife centric. Surround the pond with native trees, native plants. The geese will find it less ideal (it is harder to land when there are trees near the pond, preditors might be hiding in the tall grasses) the other wildlife will increase.?This is a long term solution.Slaughter is a short-term solution.?- Karen Medina"The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great" - Mark Twain -------- Original message --------From: Susan Parenti via Peace Date: 5/24/20 14:52 (GMT-06:00) To: "Predmore, Janice C" Cc: Peace List , Karen Aram Subject: Re: [Peace] My letter to the local news: Hello Jan and other friends and acquaintances?What Karen and other letter-writers are pointing out is NOT an argument that there is no over-population of the geese?yes, we completely join you in seeing one of the problems as over-population. What we are pointing out is the means by which the overpopulation is addressed by UPD?culling, or killing?when there are new, humane and successful ways to influence the overpopulation. Viktoria Ford spent considerable time with Derek Liebert, and with the organization GeesePeace, describing the humane and effective way they (Geese Peace) control overpopulation. Our group of ?save the geese urbana? has found numerous examples of communities about our size, who have used effective and humane means to control overpopulation. Secondly,UPD gave us 11 days April 27 to May 9th, to participate in? ?public dialogue? (via a 6 question survey), then had a vote, and that was it. They, the UPD, have been working on this culling step for three years. We had11 days?they?ve had 1,095 days. I applaud Karen for making connections in ways many of us wouldn?t. Please join us in a rally around the geese this Tuesday, May26, 12 noon to 1pm, at the corner of park and Broadway. (People must wear masks, keep 6 feet away). We hope to have a mike or megaphone, and will welcome all the varieties of opinions that people may have. We?re not looking for agreement?we?re looking for time and space for Community dialogue. Which our hardworking and thoughtful park personnel do not offer. We?re also inviting the park District personnel to attend and to speak with us, answer questions. Warmly, also without malice?Susan Parenti> On May 24, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Predmore, Janice C via Peace wrote:> > Your letter is wide ranging, drawing in several topics that seem off topic.? We?re contemplating a burgeoning flock of geese in our park.> > That the suggestion of removing a part of the flock has you thinking about recent wars (which I agree are awful & disgusting) is unfair to press on our park board as their responsibility to somehow ameliorate. > > My reaction to your claim that draconian measures to control population has never been effective ... just think back to your years in this area and count how many black bear, bobcat, common rat snake, and for that matter how many Native American families are you aware of ??? > > In my opinion the numbers of Canada Goose in Crystal Lake park must be reduced.? There will remain enough so that we can enjoy both them and the park. I support our hard working & thoughtful park personnel in the decision to reduce the flock numbers . > > Without malice,> Jan > > Sent from my iPhone> _______________________________________________> Peace mailing list> Peace at lists.chambana.net> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace_______________________________________________Peace mailing listPeace at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbw292002 at gmail.com Sun May 24 20:54:42 2020 From: jbw292002 at gmail.com (John W.) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 15:54:42 -0500 Subject: [Peace] My letter to the local news: In-Reply-To: <5ecadc19.1c69fb81.2283a.fad9@mx.google.com> References: <5ecadc19.1c69fb81.2283a.fad9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Right you are, Karen. This has been an excellent discussion - not just today but for the past couple of weeks. Very rational, civilized, science-based. I still don't like geese, but some of you have changed my mind 180 degrees about the best way to deal with the situation. Thank you. I wish you all success with the Urbana Park District. John Wason On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 3:42 PM kmedina67 via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Well done Susan! > > > Whoa, one of Jan Predmore's paragraphs basically says, "genocide works" > ! > > Well, yes, genocide does work. But it is WRONG. > > Basically, the park district built the ideal nursery for Canadian Geese. > Short grass, a gentle non-rocky slope between the water and the grass, > water, easy flight into the pond, and a complete lack of preditors > (including black bear, bobcat, and rat snakes, and people (it is illegal to > hunt Canadian Geese)). And then the park district blames the geese? > > All we are saying is killing the geese is not the answer. More geese will > come. Because it is an ideal place for geese. > > Changing the ideal geese conditions is one thing that should be done. 1) > Plant taller native grasses that go right up to the pond. 2) make the slope > a bit steeper (and more like a natural pond). > > Change the pond part of the park from being entirely people- centric to > more wildlife centric. Surround the pond with native trees, native plants. > The geese will find it less ideal (it is harder to land when there are > trees near the pond, preditors might be hiding in the tall grasses) the > other wildlife will increase. > > This is a long term solution. > > Slaughter is a short-term solution. > > - Karen Medina > "The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great" - Mark > Twain > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Susan Parenti via Peace > Date: 5/24/20 14:52 (GMT-06:00) > To: "Predmore, Janice C" > Cc: Peace List , Karen Aram < > karenaram at hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Peace] My letter to the local news: > > Hello Jan and other friends and acquaintances? > > What Karen and other letter-writers are pointing out is NOT an argument > that there is no over-population of the geese?yes, we completely join you > in seeing one of the problems as over-population. What we are pointing out > is the means by which the overpopulation is addressed by UPD?culling, or > killing?when there are new, humane and successful ways to influence the > overpopulation. Viktoria Ford spent considerable time with Derek Liebert, > and with the organization GeesePeace, describing the humane and effective > way they (Geese Peace) control overpopulation. Our group of ?save the geese > urbana? has found numerous examples of communities about our size, who have > used effective and humane means to control overpopulation. > > Secondly,UPD gave us 11 days April 27 to May 9th, to participate in > ?public dialogue? (via a 6 question survey), then had a vote, and that was > it. They, the UPD, have been working on this culling step for three years. > We had11 days?they?ve had 1,095 days. > > I applaud Karen for making connections in ways many of us wouldn?t. > > Please join us in a rally around the geese this Tuesday, May26, 12 noon to > 1pm, at the corner of park and Broadway. (People must wear masks, keep 6 > feet away). We hope to have a mike or megaphone, and will welcome all the > varieties of opinions that people may have. We?re not looking for > agreement?we?re looking for time and space for Community dialogue. Which > our hardworking and thoughtful park personnel do not offer. We?re also > inviting the park District personnel to attend and to speak with us, answer > questions. > > Warmly, also without malice? > Susan Parenti > > > On May 24, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Predmore, Janice C via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > > Your letter is wide ranging, drawing in several topics that seem off > topic. We?re contemplating a burgeoning flock of geese in our park. > > > > That the suggestion of removing a part of the flock has you thinking > about recent wars (which I agree are awful & disgusting) is unfair to press > on our park board as their responsibility to somehow ameliorate. > > > > My reaction to your claim that draconian measures to control population > has never been effective ... just think back to your years in this area and > count how many black bear, bobcat, common rat snake, and for that matter > how many Native American families are you aware of ? > > > > In my opinion the numbers of Canada Goose in Crystal Lake park must be > reduced. There will remain enough so that we can enjoy both them and the > park. I support our hard working & thoughtful park personnel in the > decision to reduce the flock numbers . > > > > Without malice, > > Jan > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace mailing list > > Peace at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sun May 24 22:10:53 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 15:10:53 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese References: Message-ID: International Law Professor Francis Boyle?s response to my letter related to the planned slaughter of geese : > > "Karen has a very fine and sensitive letter in today?s NG against Urbana slaughtering their geese. She ties it up into everything else going on in the world today including Covid-19 and US Wars around the world. I don?t live in Urbana. But it seems to me that Urbana should give a reprieve to their geese as an Affirmation of Life. Something we need these dark days for sure. In any event, well done Karen!? Congrats! Fab. In another comment he refers to it as: ?Respect for Life in a time of death and destruction." Fab. > > Francis A. Boyle > Law Building > 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave. > Champaign IL 61820 USA > 217-333-7954 (phone) > 217-244-1478 (fax) > (personal comments only) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kmedina67 at gmail.com Sun May 24 23:05:34 2020 From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (Karen Medina) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:05:34 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Karen Aram, for sharing Professor Boyle's comments! He is spot on. On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 5:11 PM Karen Aram via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > International Law Professor Francis Boyle?s response to my letter related > to the planned slaughter of geese : > > > *"Karen has a very fine and sensitive letter in today?s NG against Urbana > slaughtering their geese. She ties it up into everything else going on in > the world today including Covid-19 and US Wars around the world. I don?t > live in Urbana. But it seems to me that Urbana should give a reprieve to > their geese as an Affirmation of Life. Something we need these dark days > for sure. In any event, well done Karen!? Congrats! Fab.* > > > In another comment he refers to it as: ?*Respect for Life in a time of > death and destruction." Fab.* > > > *Francis A. Boyle* > *Law Building* > *504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.* > *Champaign IL 61820 USA* > *217-333-7954 (phone)* > *217-244-1478 (fax)* > *(personal comments only*) > > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -- -- karen medina "The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." - Mark Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Mon May 25 00:09:14 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 19:09:14 -0500 Subject: [Peace] this Tues., 12 noon to 1pm, protest the Park's plan to kill the geese! Message-ID: This Tuesday, May 26, 12 noon to 1pm, protest the Park District's decision to kill 60-100 geese next month, as the 'only way possible' to stop overpopulation. We've gathered over 8 reports of successful treatment of overpopulated geese in cities like ours, where new and humane methods are used--but Urbana Park District refuses to listen. In the name of living creatures, let's shout! Meet at Park Str & Broadway in Urbana. [image: Image may contain: 3 people, tree and outdoor] -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Mon May 25 00:58:13 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 19:58:13 -0500 Subject: [Peace] My letter to the local news: In-Reply-To: References: <5ecadc19.1c69fb81.2283a.fad9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: John Your remarks give me hope Thanks Deb Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2020, at 3:54 PM, John W. via Peace wrote: > > > Right you are, Karen. This has been an excellent discussion - not just today but for the past couple of weeks. Very rational, civilized, science-based. I still don't like geese, but some of you have changed my mind 180 degrees about the best way to deal with the situation. Thank you. > I wish you all success with the Urbana Park District. > > John Wason > > > >> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 3:42 PM kmedina67 via Peace wrote: >> Well done Susan! >> >> >> Whoa, one of Jan Predmore's paragraphs basically says, "genocide works" >> ! >> >> Well, yes, genocide does work. But it is WRONG. >> >> Basically, the park district built the ideal nursery for Canadian Geese. Short grass, a gentle non-rocky slope between the water and the grass, water, easy flight into the pond, and a complete lack of preditors (including black bear, bobcat, and rat snakes, and people (it is illegal to hunt Canadian Geese)). And then the park district blames the geese? >> >> All we are saying is killing the geese is not the answer. More geese will come. Because it is an ideal place for geese. >> >> Changing the ideal geese conditions is one thing that should be done. 1) Plant taller native grasses that go right up to the pond. 2) make the slope a bit steeper (and more like a natural pond). >> >> Change the pond part of the park from being entirely people- centric to more wildlife centric. Surround the pond with native trees, native plants. The geese will find it less ideal (it is harder to land when there are trees near the pond, preditors might be hiding in the tall grasses) the other wildlife will increase. >> >> This is a long term solution. >> >> Slaughter is a short-term solution. >> >> - Karen Medina >> "The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great" - Mark Twain >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Susan Parenti via Peace >> Date: 5/24/20 14:52 (GMT-06:00) >> To: "Predmore, Janice C" >> Cc: Peace List , Karen Aram >> Subject: Re: [Peace] My letter to the local news: >> >> Hello Jan and other friends and acquaintances? >> >> What Karen and other letter-writers are pointing out is NOT an argument that there is no over-population of the geese?yes, we completely join you in seeing one of the problems as over-population. What we are pointing out is the means by which the overpopulation is addressed by UPD?culling, or killing?when there are new, humane and successful ways to influence the overpopulation. Viktoria Ford spent considerable time with Derek Liebert, and with the organization GeesePeace, describing the humane and effective way they (Geese Peace) control overpopulation. Our group of ?save the geese urbana? has found numerous examples of communities about our size, who have used effective and humane means to control overpopulation. >> >> Secondly,UPD gave us 11 days April 27 to May 9th, to participate in ?public dialogue? (via a 6 question survey), then had a vote, and that was it. They, the UPD, have been working on this culling step for three years. We had11 days?they?ve had 1,095 days. >> >> I applaud Karen for making connections in ways many of us wouldn?t. >> >> Please join us in a rally around the geese this Tuesday, May26, 12 noon to 1pm, at the corner of park and Broadway. (People must wear masks, keep 6 feet away). We hope to have a mike or megaphone, and will welcome all the varieties of opinions that people may have. We?re not looking for agreement?we?re looking for time and space for Community dialogue. Which our hardworking and thoughtful park personnel do not offer. We?re also inviting the park District personnel to attend and to speak with us, answer questions. >> >> Warmly, also without malice? >> Susan Parenti >> >> > On May 24, 2020, at 2:32 PM, Predmore, Janice C via Peace wrote: >> > >> > Your letter is wide ranging, drawing in several topics that seem off topic. We?re contemplating a burgeoning flock of geese in our park. >> > >> > That the suggestion of removing a part of the flock has you thinking about recent wars (which I agree are awful & disgusting) is unfair to press on our park board as their responsibility to somehow ameliorate. >> > >> > My reaction to your claim that draconian measures to control population has never been effective ... just think back to your years in this area and count how many black bear, bobcat, common rat snake, and for that matter how many Native American families are you aware of ? >> > >> > In my opinion the numbers of Canada Goose in Crystal Lake park must be reduced. There will remain enough so that we can enjoy both them and the park. I support our hard working & thoughtful park personnel in the decision to reduce the flock numbers . >> > >> > Without malice, >> > Jan >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Peace mailing list >> > Peace at lists.chambana.net >> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Mon May 25 01:17:11 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 20:17:11 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Some news and opinions Message-ID: <076ead73-889d-0af4-843c-4e1e61e952fc@forestfield.org> COVID-19: We know less about the virus than we need to know to justify lifting lockdown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqOAhxfokao -- (2m 43s) "Recovery isn't immunity -- You might get COVID-19 a second time (study)". Results are not known now, but the best available evidence says that those who were once infected could be re-infected (which means more suffering). It's not clear if this is due to bad testing, a mutating virus, or something else that causes apparently inadequate antibodies to develop. Meanwhile, in New York (frequently called "the epicenter" of COVID-19 infections): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxpOgQjEGxQ -- (6m) establishment media trots out the reliable obeisant comics (Stephen Colbert, Ellen DeGeneres, and Jimmy Fallon are shown) to help manufacture an unearned celebratory narrative for Gov. Cuomo in what these celebrities are (supposedly spontaneously) calling 'going "Cuomosexual"' despite his record to date. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjS-43QhSNs (2m 43s) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9hDzWymbMQ -- (2m 38s) in New York City it looks like NYPD is also opportunistically using a lack of 'social distancing' to arrest and beat disproportionately minorities -- "Minorities make up 90% of NYC COVID-19 violations". And loosening restrictions on crowds is proceeding nonetheless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eN0YrgICi8 -- (1m 38s) Daytona Beach, Florida https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3AYP3lqj2s -- (2m 22s) Israel Strikes abound! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW3RHrQ-pXI -- (8m 22s) Workers are organizing their own strikes and there's apparently a media blackout on coverage. You're far more likely to hear of an anti-lockdown protest than strike actions across the country. Is this because of who stands to benefit from re-opening businesses? International news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIatjya5tH8 -- US will place Cuba back on the so-called "terrorist" list. Sadly, this is only one segment of an otherwise not very recommendable episode and this program doesn't split out their topics into separate videos, so it is difficult to recommend only the discussion around Cuba for discussion or review. I don't even agree with the entire Cuba segment -- I don't think this is Trump's desire to somehow undo everything Obama did. Trump increases belligerency in Obama's wars, for example. But I think it's good to know that there is movement to return Cuba to increased US-backed restrictions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1ZHk2jHYU -- Trump administration labels weapons manufacturers "essential workers" so they can get back to work manufacturing and selling weapons to other countries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6BtqpXnYeU -- (8m 53s) Relatedly, there's a weapons sales boom despite the COVID-19 pandemic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XuUUte0Oms -- (3m 33s) US opposes Hong Kong laws, China increases their military spending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkMiTWXzZ6Y -- (10m 03s) US denies latest failed Venezuelan coup attempt (even though best available evidence clearly shows US backing including https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPAoVlszisc which suggests self-declared Venezuelan "president" Juan Guaido met mercenary firm chief in the White House) and points the finger of blame at Russia -- Russiagate lives! Recommended videos for AWARE on the Air & News from Neptune timeslots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnoFP4t61h4 -- (27m 55s) "On Contact" with Chris Hedges -- Ecosocialism interview with Victor Wallis. This includes good discussion on class consciousness and how identity politics doesn't address class and doesn't address what Wallis called "the basic outlook" of decision-making (neocon, neolib decision-making continues under selected women just as it did under selected men). This is very much against feminism too which is now defined as seeing a woman CEO of a powerful company (I'm reminded that most American weapons manufacturers are now led by women). https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/489504-ecosocialism-victor-wallis-activist/ -- transcript should show up here soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIp0jqeylpk -- (24m 48s) "On Contact" with Chris Hedges -- the lessons of the Paris Uprising of May 1968 with Mitch Abidor https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/488804-student-uprising-paris-may-1968/ -- transcript -J From r-szoke at illinois.edu Mon May 25 03:21:26 2020 From: r-szoke at illinois.edu (Szoke, Ron) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 03:21:26 +0000 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Would you say the same if the park were being overrun by skunks or rats? If not, please explain the difference. ________________________________________ From: Peace on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 5:10 PM To: Peace List Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese International Law Professor Francis Boyle?s response to my letter related to the planned slaughter of geese : "Karen has a very fine and sensitive letter in today?s NG against Urbana slaughtering their geese. She ties it up into everything else going on in the world today including Covid-19 and US Wars around the world. I don?t live in Urbana. But it seems to me that Urbana should give a reprieve to their geese as an Affirmation of Life. Something we need these dark days for sure. In any event, well done Karen!? Congrats! Fab. In another comment he refers to it as: ?Respect for Life in a time of death and destruction." Fab. Francis A. Boyle Law Building 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave. Champaign IL 61820 USA 217-333-7954 (phone) 217-244-1478 (fax) (personal comments only) From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon May 25 03:54:08 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 20:54:08 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ron, I might not have found the good people of this community concerned with the geese to support in their efforts, but I personally would oppose killing the rats, and skunks as well as geese. I?m sure there is a means of controlling them, also without bloodshed. I would never kill mice either, when they entered my kitchen nightly in Bangkok, I captured one every night in a cage then released it in a field, near food stalls with garbage. Seventeen nights, seventeen mice. In Thailand they didn?t kill the stray dogs or cats either, and they were over run with mangy strays, more dogs on the streets than we have squirrels in our parks, eventually they dedicated a huge field, after neutering, for them to live out their lives in peace without reproducing. Thai?s are a very peaceful people from whom we could learn a lot. Many Thai?s won?t kill insects, I admit I do kill insects when they enter my domain. Now aren?t you glad you asked? > On May 24, 2020, at 20:21, Szoke, Ron wrote: > > Would you say the same if the park were being overrun by skunks or rats? If not, please explain the difference. > > ________________________________________ > From: Peace on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 5:10 PM > To: Peace List > Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese > > > International Law Professor Francis Boyle?s response to my letter related to the planned slaughter of geese : > > "Karen has a very fine and sensitive letter in today?s NG against Urbana slaughtering their geese. She ties it up into everything else going on in the world today including Covid-19 and US Wars around the world. I don?t live in Urbana. But it seems to me that Urbana should give a reprieve to their geese as an Affirmation of Life. Something we need these dark days for sure. In any event, well done Karen!? Congrats! Fab. > > In another comment he refers to it as: ?Respect for Life in a time of death and destruction." Fab. > > Francis A. Boyle > Law Building > 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave. > Champaign IL 61820 USA > 217-333-7954 (phone) > 217-244-1478 (fax) > (personal comments only) > From kmedina67 at gmail.com Mon May 25 04:07:06 2020 From: kmedina67 at gmail.com (kmedina67) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 23:07:06 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5ecb446c.1c69fb81.a85ab.3716@mx.google.com> ?Let me see if i understand your question. Would we say that?* "A balanced ecosystem works better than culling."* That "A balanced ecosystem is a better long-term solution."* That "culling is a temporary at best and fails to acknowledge the larger problem."* And that "a native ecosystem is better than creating a fake one. "?If it were skunks or rats. Or even kangaroos. Yes, I would.?By the way,?Canada geese are protected?from hunting and capture outside of designated hunting seasons in the United States by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.?- Karen Medina"The really great make you feel that you, too, can become great" - Mark Twain -------- Original message --------From: "Szoke, Ron via Peace" Date: 5/24/20 22:21 (GMT-06:00) To: Peace List , Karen Aram Subject: Re: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese Would you say the same if the park were being overrun by skunks or rats??? If not, please explain the difference.? ________________________________________From: Peace on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 5:10 PMTo: Peace ListSubject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese International Law Professor Francis Boyle?s response to my letter related to the planned slaughter of geese :"Karen has a very fine and sensitive letter in today?s NG against Urbana slaughtering their geese. She ties it up into everything else going on in the world today including Covid-19 and US Wars around the world. I don?t live in Urbana. But it seems to me that Urbana should give a reprieve to their geese as an Affirmation of Life. Something we need these dark days for sure. In any event, well done Karen!? Congrats! Fab.? In another comment he refers to it as: ?Respect for Life in a time of death and destruction." Fab.Francis A. BoyleLaw Building504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.Champaign IL 61820 USA217-333-7954 (phone)217-244-1478 (fax)(personal comments only)_______________________________________________Peace mailing listPeace at lists.chambana.nethttps://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brussel at illinois.edu Mon May 25 04:30:30 2020 From: brussel at illinois.edu (Brussel, Morton K) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 04:30:30 +0000 Subject: [Peace] Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5303FF82-1815-49EA-A446-A6D52BA9056E@illinois.edu> In a ?natural" ecosystem, there would be preditors of the geese, such as wolves, foxes, or?. We?ve gotten rid of the predators, except for ourselves. How does this change the rationales? > On May 24, 2020, at 10:21 PM, Szoke, Ron via Peace wrote: > > Would you say the same if the park were being overrun by skunks or rats? If not, please explain the difference. > > ________________________________________ > From: Peace on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 5:10 PM > To: Peace List > Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese > > > International Law Professor Francis Boyle?s response to my letter related to the planned slaughter of geese : > > "Karen has a very fine and sensitive letter in today?s NG against Urbana slaughtering their geese. She ties it up into everything else going on in the world today including Covid-19 and US Wars around the world. I don?t live in Urbana. But it seems to me that Urbana should give a reprieve to their geese as an Affirmation of Life. Something we need these dark days for sure. In any event, well done Karen!? Congrats! Fab. > > In another comment he refers to it as: ?Respect for Life in a time of death and destruction." Fab. > > Francis A. Boyle > Law Building > 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave. > Champaign IL 61820 USA > 217-333-7954 (phone) > 217-244-1478 (fax) > (personal comments only) > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon May 25 11:51:28 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 04:51:28 -0700 Subject: [Peace] A most important interview by Chris Hedges with Victor Wallis related to ecosocialism Message-ID: https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/489504-ecosocialism-victor-wallis-activist/?fbclid=IwAR0t0lOUJwnNgRyxkZjzi1tqljRuvZI3q-7Y014I7WhF0YzbE000eMFm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deb.pdamerica at gmail.com Mon May 25 15:21:50 2020 From: deb.pdamerica at gmail.com (Debra Schrishuhn) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 10:21:50 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese In-Reply-To: <5303FF82-1815-49EA-A446-A6D52BA9056E@illinois.edu> References: <5303FF82-1815-49EA-A446-A6D52BA9056E@illinois.edu> Message-ID: <4FA3C6BE-EF4B-4E4B-815A-4691C9E98459@gmail.com> Exactly. We created an inviting and predator-free space for the geese, so we need to use our big problem-solving brains to devise a humane and sustainable solution to the problem we created. Rounding up wild geese while they are flightless and shipping them to a slaughterhouse is neither humane nor sustainable. Fortunately, other communities have solved their goose problem and all we need to do is emulate them. Deb Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2020, at 11:30 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace wrote: > > In a ?natural" ecosystem, there would be preditors of the geese, such as wolves, foxes, or?. We?ve gotten rid of the predators, except for ourselves. > > How does this change the rationales? > >> On May 24, 2020, at 10:21 PM, Szoke, Ron via Peace wrote: >> >> Would you say the same if the park were being overrun by skunks or rats? If not, please explain the difference. >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: Peace on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace >> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 5:10 PM >> To: Peace List >> Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese >> >> >> International Law Professor Francis Boyle?s response to my letter related to the planned slaughter of geese : >> >> "Karen has a very fine and sensitive letter in today?s NG against Urbana slaughtering their geese. She ties it up into everything else going on in the world today including Covid-19 and US Wars around the world. I don?t live in Urbana. But it seems to me that Urbana should give a reprieve to their geese as an Affirmation of Life. Something we need these dark days for sure. In any event, well done Karen!? Congrats! Fab. >> >> In another comment he refers to it as: ?Respect for Life in a time of death and destruction." Fab. >> >> Francis A. Boyle >> Law Building >> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave. >> Champaign IL 61820 USA >> 217-333-7954 (phone) >> 217-244-1478 (fax) >> (personal comments only) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace From niloofar.peace at gmail.com Mon May 25 19:24:46 2020 From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 14:24:46 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese In-Reply-To: <4FA3C6BE-EF4B-4E4B-815A-4691C9E98459@gmail.com> References: <5303FF82-1815-49EA-A446-A6D52BA9056E@illinois.edu> <4FA3C6BE-EF4B-4E4B-815A-4691C9E98459@gmail.com> Message-ID: I usually don't want to waste my time convince others of their faulty thinking, but this is just too ridiculous. Being overrun by skunks or rats?! If UPD Who would in their right mind allow the population of skunks and rats o On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:22 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > Exactly. We created an inviting and predator-free space for the geese, so > we need to use our big problem-solving brains to devise a humane and > sustainable solution to the problem we created. Rounding up wild geese > while they are flightless and shipping them to a slaughterhouse is neither > humane nor sustainable. Fortunately, other communities have solved their > goose problem and all we need to do is emulate them. > > Deb > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 24, 2020, at 11:30 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > > > > In a ?natural" ecosystem, there would be preditors of the geese, such as > wolves, foxes, or?. We?ve gotten rid of the predators, except for > ourselves. > > > > How does this change the rationales? > > > >> On May 24, 2020, at 10:21 PM, Szoke, Ron via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> > >> Would you say the same if the park were being overrun by skunks or > rats? If not, please explain the difference. > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Peace on behalf of Karen Aram > via Peace > >> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 5:10 PM > >> To: Peace List > >> Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese > >> > >> > >> International Law Professor Francis Boyle?s response to my letter > related to the planned slaughter of geese : > >> > >> "Karen has a very fine and sensitive letter in today?s NG against > Urbana slaughtering their geese. She ties it up into everything else going > on in the world today including Covid-19 and US Wars around the world. I > don?t live in Urbana. But it seems to me that Urbana should give a reprieve > to their geese as an Affirmation of Life. Something we need these dark days > for sure. In any event, well done Karen!? Congrats! Fab. > >> > >> In another comment he refers to it as: ?Respect for Life in a time of > death and destruction." Fab. > >> > >> Francis A. Boyle > >> Law Building > >> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave. > >> Champaign IL 61820 USA > >> 217-333-7954 (phone) > >> 217-244-1478 (fax) > >> (personal comments only) > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Peace mailing list > >> Peace at lists.chambana.net > >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Peace mailing list > > Peace at lists.chambana.net > > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > _______________________________________________ > Peace mailing list > Peace at lists.chambana.net > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Mon May 25 19:35:01 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 12:35:01 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: On African Liberation Day 2020, We Re-Dedicate Ourselves to Ending White World Supremacy References: <5845ddb951de35b8eb11e0eee.b209f21775.20200525155918.e5b58e4a77.55604d86@mail14.suw91.mcdlv.net> Message-ID: > > From: Black Alliance for Peace > Subject: On African Liberation Day 2020, We Re-Dedicate Ourselves to Ending White World Supremacy > > > Under the threat of U.S. military action, Iranian tankers sailed to deliver fuel to Venezuela, which has the largest proven oil reserves in the world. The United States and its European vassal states have conspired to destroy Venezuela with sanctions and a growing naval blockade, preventing it from selling its oil around the world. > > Meanwhile, in the suburbs of Paris, Saint Denis, Aubervilliers, Aulnay-Sous Bois, Clichy Sous Bois, the French police beat and terrorize working-class Africans and Arabs who have migrated from French neo-colonial territories. In the United States, colonial police are just as brutal as those in the Fanonian ?zones of non-being,? where colonized African, Latinx and Indigenous peoples live as the permanent ?others.? > > Despite pandemics, global climate change and nuclear war, nothing has moved Western capitalist societies to recognize colonized people?s common humanity. > > Instead, it has become quite clear, public opinion in the United States has hardened toward China, which has economically eclipsed the United States. The U.S. capitalist class, along with growing numbers of the white public, are prepared to blow up the world before it surrenders its power. > > This makes the United States and Europe existential threats to 90 percent of global humanity unless their power is curtailed or, better still, seized. > > But that will not be easy. > > The core of the colonial/capitalist project is violence backed by the state and embedded in all social institutions and practices of capitalist societies. > > The freedom of Africa and African peoples requires the structures of domination be identified and opposed. > > The U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM) is one of those structures. Read BAP?s African Liberation Day statement. > > This is the message the Black Alliance for Peace (BAP) brings on African Liberation Day (May 25). This day reminds all Africans and all still fighting to free themselves from the barbaric rule of Western capital that a free, united African nation?with a liberated and united Africa at its core?would be a force for progress in the world. > > > PRESS AND MEDIA > > Glen Ford, Black Agenda Report Executive Editor and BAP member, calls for the indictment of the capitalist class for systematically violating African/Black people?s right to life, the ultimate human right. > > Historian Gerald Horne notes the bubonic plague ?set the stage for the erosion of feudalism in 14th century Europe,? leading to the rise of capitalism. He suggests COVID-19 is further setting the stage for the breakdown of capitalism . > > Tunde Osazua, a member of the BAP?S Africa Team and the coordinator of BAP's U.S. Out of Africa Network, breaks down why U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), in seeking accountability, only legitimized the U.S. military occupation of Africa. Watch it on YouTube , Twitter and Facebook . > > To tackle China?s growing influence in Africa, the United States permanently stationed military units to assert its will on African politics. > > BAP National Organizer Ajamu Baraka writes the ?elevation of anti-blackness as a kind of universal problem eliminates the basis for solidarity among the colonized? and puts some Africans in the United States on the side of U.S. imperialism. > > A U.S.-led bloc of countries persists in using force to maintain and extend their global dominance, writes historian Vijay Prashad and revolutionary and former Moroccan political prisoner Abdallah El Harif. > > Obama?s fans like to think of the first Black President as scholarly and above the fray of dirty politics, but he appears to have conspired with the FBI to set up the incoming Trump administration. BAP Coordinating Committee member and Black Agenda Report Senior Columnist Margaret Kimberley breaks it down . > > BAP Research Team member Paul McLennan wrote about his evolution from a petty-bourgeois upbringing to being a revolutionary in the U.S. South. > > The Council on Hemispheric Affairs hosted an exclusive interview with Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza. > > Venezuela?s opposition has long accused the Bolivarian government of corruption and mismanagement. Anya Parampil of the Grayzone reports , ?with Citgo on the verge of liquidation, Guaid??s officials are too incompetent?or too devious?to save it.? > > The U.S. Peace Council released a statement that Iran?s decision to dispatch five oil tankers carrying much-needed fuel for the struggling Venezuelan people has created a ?decisive test of the Trump administration?s willingness to continue its violations of international law and the UN Charter by taking military action against Iranian tankers.? > > Trump withdrew from the Treaty on Open Skies, further escalating tensions between Russia and the U.S./EU/NATO axis. > > > EVENTS > > Webinars have taken place or will take place in lieu of annual marches and in-person events. > 6 p.m., May 25: The December 12th Movement will host a webinar , ?COVID-19, Sanctions, and the Human Right to Health Care,? featuring officials representing Namibia, Zimbabwe and the African Union. > May 24: The All-African People?s Revolutionary Party and the Maryland Council of Elders hosted a webinar dedicated to African Liberation Day, featuring speakers from BAP and Pan-African Community Action (PACA), a BAP member organization. > June 16: BAP will host a webinar, ?Rise Up to Shut Down AFRICOM,? on Soweto Day. This is part of our ongoing U.S. Out of Africa: Shut Down AFRICOM campaign. Read our press release. We will roll out more information on this event in the coming weeks. > > > TAKE ACTION > Have you signed our petition to demand 2020 U.S. candidates take a position against war, militarism and repression? Take your anti-war activism further by asking your local, state and federal candidates to sign BAP?s 2020 Candidate Accountability Pledge. If you are a candidate, distinguish yourself from the other corporate warmongering candidates by signing the pledge.?Check out BAP?s campaign and take action. > BAP?s U.S. Out of Africa Network has begun releasing a bi-weekly AFRICOM Watch Bulletin . Sign up to join the network . > > No Compromise, No Retreat! > > Struggle to win, > Ajamu, Brandon, Dedan, Jaribu, Margaret, Netfa, Paul, Vanessa, YahN? > > P.S. Freedom isn?t free.?Consider giving today. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From niloofar.peace at gmail.com Mon May 25 19:36:04 2020 From: niloofar.peace at gmail.com (Niloofar Shambayati) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 14:36:04 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese In-Reply-To: References: <5303FF82-1815-49EA-A446-A6D52BA9056E@illinois.edu> <4FA3C6BE-EF4B-4E4B-815A-4691C9E98459@gmail.com> Message-ID: My previous email was hijacked before I could finish it. Crystal Lake being overrun by skunk and rat is a terrible adaptation of The Birds at best, it's not an argument in favor of slaughtering Crystal Lake Park's resident geese.. You can do better! N On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 2:24 PM Niloofar Shambayati < niloofar.peace at gmail.com> wrote: > I usually don't want to waste my time convince others of their faulty > thinking, but this is just too ridiculous. Being overrun by skunks or > rats?! If UPD Who would in their right mind allow the population of skunks > and rats o > > On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:22 AM Debra Schrishuhn via Peace < > peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: > >> Exactly. We created an inviting and predator-free space for the geese, so >> we need to use our big problem-solving brains to devise a humane and >> sustainable solution to the problem we created. Rounding up wild geese >> while they are flightless and shipping them to a slaughterhouse is neither >> humane nor sustainable. Fortunately, other communities have solved their >> goose problem and all we need to do is emulate them. >> >> Deb >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On May 24, 2020, at 11:30 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> > >> > In a ?natural" ecosystem, there would be preditors of the geese, such >> as wolves, foxes, or?. We?ve gotten rid of the predators, except for >> ourselves. >> > >> > How does this change the rationales? >> > >> >> On May 24, 2020, at 10:21 PM, Szoke, Ron via Peace < >> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> Would you say the same if the park were being overrun by skunks or >> rats? If not, please explain the difference. >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> From: Peace on behalf of Karen >> Aram via Peace >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 5:10 PM >> >> To: Peace List >> >> Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Karen's Letter on Slaughtering Urbana's Geese >> >> >> >> >> >> International Law Professor Francis Boyle?s response to my letter >> related to the planned slaughter of geese : >> >> >> >> "Karen has a very fine and sensitive letter in today?s NG against >> Urbana slaughtering their geese. She ties it up into everything else going >> on in the world today including Covid-19 and US Wars around the world. I >> don?t live in Urbana. But it seems to me that Urbana should give a reprieve >> to their geese as an Affirmation of Life. Something we need these dark days >> for sure. In any event, well done Karen!? Congrats! Fab. >> >> >> >> In another comment he refers to it as: ?Respect for Life in a time of >> death and destruction." Fab. >> >> >> >> Francis A. Boyle >> >> Law Building >> >> 504 E. Pennsylvania Ave. >> >> Champaign IL 61820 USA >> >> 217-333-7954 (phone) >> >> 217-244-1478 (fax) >> >> (personal comments only) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Peace mailing list >> >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Peace mailing list >> > Peace at lists.chambana.net >> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> _______________________________________________ >> Peace mailing list >> Peace at lists.chambana.net >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Mon May 25 23:07:03 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 18:07:03 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Tues., noon to 1pm, Protest Killing of our geese---& LEARN MORE Message-ID: - This Tuesday, May 26, 12 noon to 1pm, protest the Park District's decision to kill 60-100 geese next month, as the 'only way possible' to stop overpopulation. We've gathered reports of successful treatment of overpopulated geese in cities like ours, where new and humane methods are used---but Urbana Park District refuses to listen. In the name of living creatures, let's shout! Meet at Park Street & Broadway in Urbana. [image: Image may contain: 3 people, tree and outdoor] *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.de -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Tue May 26 13:31:24 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 08:31:24 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Today, noon: Protest!--and, wear mask, keep 6 Ft Distance! Message-ID: *LToday*- 12 noon to 1pm, protest the Park District's decision to kill 60-100 geese next month, as the 'only way possible' to stop overpopulation. We've gathered reports of successful treatment of overpopulated geese in cities like ours, where new and humane methods are used---but Urbana Park District refuses to listen. In the name of living creatures, let's shout! Meet at Park Street & Broadway in Urbana. [image: Image may contain: 3 people, tree and outdoor] -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Thu May 28 00:16:51 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 19:16:51 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Humane Society says, "It is wrong to kill geese". Message-ID: Protest this Friday, 12 noon to 1. The Crystal Lake Geese's lives are in our hands. The Park District intends to gas them--60 to 100 of them--in the coming month. They claim its the 'only way to solve overpopulation'. We have collected other ways that are effective and humane. Help with your presence. Corner of Park St. and Broadway. WEAR MASKS, observe SOCIAL DISTANCING. [image: Susan Parenti's photo.] C -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susanroseparenti at gmail.com Thu May 28 22:17:36 2020 From: susanroseparenti at gmail.com (Susan Parenti) Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 17:17:36 -0500 Subject: [Peace] Protest for our Geese, tomorrow--AND, we've invited Park District to show up, too Message-ID: Hi friends---Tomorrow, Friday, noon to 1pm, we'll be protesting the park's decision 2 weeks ago to kill 60-100 of our geese at the middle-end of June. While we write petitions, letters to the Park, letters to the editor, giving reasons for why their decision is inhumane and ineffective--the Park District remains silent. So we've specifically invited each one of the Park Commissioners and staff to attend tomorrow' Protest, which now we've renamed RALLY--friends of our geese, friends of our park---let's meet!. We'll see if they come! Corner of Park STreet and Broadway. Bring signs, wear masks, keep physical distancing *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net -- *Susan Parenti* *Educational Coordinator * *The School for Designing a Society *www.designingasociety.net *Like us on Facebook !* [image: image.png] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 148412 bytes Desc: not available URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sat May 30 15:13:05 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 08:13:05 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Join the caravan protest today...... Message-ID: Join thousands of people across the country in car caravan protests on Saturday, May 30 to demand the cancellation of rent, mortgages and all debts to landlords for the duration of the pandemic. We will meet at 2pm on Saturday, May 30th at Lincoln Square Mall in Urbana, on the corner of Illinois St. and Broadway Ave. The patchwork of city and state moratoriums on evictions are not enough. In a few months when these moratoriums are lifted and the rents come due -- we will still not have the money! Protesters will adhere to social distancing guidelines and requirements, including wearing masks, that have been established to respond to the Coronavirus outbreak. Cancel the Rents and Mortgages! Make the Banks Pay! No Foreclosures for Homeowners, Small Landlords, and Small Businesses! -------------------------------- Co-sponsored by: Champaign-Urbana Democratic Socialists of America -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sun May 31 00:04:12 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 19:04:12 -0500 Subject: [Peace] COVID-19 and Minneapolis news -- anger is rising against the elites Message-ID: Jimmy Dore show just ended an interview with Chris Hedges that was very informative including clearly showing the cops being criminals (and if any cops didn't go along with the program to beat the public into submission and kill the public, they'd be run out of the police or killed ala Serpico). One incident in San Jose (Silicon Valley where wealthy people live) was someone recording the cops with a phone and was shot at and beaten by cops in response. I'm sure this show will turn into multiple segments and possibly one longer segment of the entire conversation which should be recommended for running during the NFN/AOTA timeslot. ABC7 news (Disney) framed this as a "fight breaking out" instead of cops shot and beat someone, again. Apparently you're not going to get very good coverage about this on a class basis from FOX, CNN, and other establishment-friendly news outlets, judging by their tone-deaf coverage (which is precisely the coverage they are there to provide). As Dore clearly points out, "they're trained to beat the fuck out of you" and "this is why we need to get rid of all the police departments and start over". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqcCidUKL88 is live and running now. Relatedly, as Dore pointed out, LA just added a curfew -- one day after opening up -- for downtown areas, one day after shooting rubber bullets into peaceful protesters again. COVID-19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BZtvkF-fZk -- (27m 41s) "On Contact" with Chris Hedges on criticizing globalization. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moEc_fO8l7Y -- (3m 05s) COVID-19 cases on the rise in several states. Minneapolis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iHKY5Q8l8o -- (3m 18s) Minnesotan "thugs" vs. Hong Kong "heroes" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP4ozBk4gJo -- (7m 36s) "George Floyd and his alleged killer were co-workers" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DAPGLdMiK8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijvtlxeN7UY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGtaI9Idoks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiNs5f11gRk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKrDOP74QyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Gp90vdF8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGyS6oJtudw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWsHFMTxmwQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94sxcMo2Pss -- (various lengths) protests, looting, and riots in multiple places (LA, DC, Minneapolis, outside US embassy in Berlin, more) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cOgPt3kRUQ -- footage of a cop walking away after smashing windows (an agent provacateur). His ex-wife outed him as a cop. Another video of the same footage adds commentary from Joe Rogan explaining this is one way in which cops foment a riot. Jimmy Dore pointed out today that some people responded to him saying 'that video has been debunked' and he asked by whom? And the answer came back: by the police. -J From karenaram at hotmail.com Sun May 31 04:43:05 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 21:43:05 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Fwd: Tonight across the nation References: Message-ID: Minneapolis: Curfew, National Guard Portland: Curfew, National Guard >> >> Seattle: Curfew, they shut down I-5 and have brought in the National Guard. >> https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/05/30/43799167/seattle-protests-for-george-floyd-shut-down-i-5-durkan-announces-curfew?fbclid=IwAR3Pim3tEmabjWoN >> Salt Lake City: National Guard activated, people beaten, cars flipped. https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/national-guard-activated-in-salt-lake-city-curfew-in-effect/?fbclid=IwAR00Dp4tjSwB8nOBvHTUaaFEcKGEnYlaHnbjcDDQWxKjxong3X92RAm77Lg >> I read earlier today the White House was in lockdown, and tonight: PROTESTERS pushed through a police barricade and climbed on top of Secret Service vehicles at the White House on Saturday - the second day of violence in the capital. https://www.the-sun.com/news/909318/secret-service-protesters-white-house/ Nashville, the Historic courthouse, and City Hall were set on fire. Last I heard they were attempting a curfew in Chicago, but protestors were ignoring it. >> >> Many other cities as well:https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/05/30/pers-m30.html?fbclid=IwAR2gCZHMfNasL2NpWeDmk7TppoqwJMjwkbK8z-98DIZThMy_DzFUo_GvxY4 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/george-floyd-death-nationwide-protests-live-updates-n1219376/ncrd1219906#liveBlogHeader > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbn at forestfield.org Sun May 31 22:06:55 2020 From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson) Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 17:06:55 -0500 Subject: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] COVID-19 and Minneapolis news -- anger is rising against the elites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98e59510-c327-c195-9e5a-eb701ec237b5@forestfield.org> I wrote: > Jimmy Dore show just ended an interview with Chris Hedges that was very informative > including clearly showing the cops being criminals (and if any cops didn't go along > with the program to beat the public into submission and kill the public, they'd be > run out of the police or killed ala Serpico). This interview is beginning to be available in segments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjSxXpoWoTI -- (19m 28s) The Real Looting of American CNN Won't Show You with Chris Hedges. I highly recommend this, Dore & Hedges make excellent points throughout. I pointed to multiple URLs showing how the combination of police brutality, needless immiseration due to a privatized healthcare system, no UBI, and no rent/mortgage jubilee all make the 99% angry at a system that abuses and kills us. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DAPGLdMiK8 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijvtlxeN7UY > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGtaI9Idoks > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiNs5f11gRk > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKrDOP74QyM > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Gp90vdF8g > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGyS6oJtudw > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWsHFMTxmwQ > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94sxcMo2Pss -- (various lengths) protests, looting, > and riots in multiple places (LA, DC, Minneapolis, outside US embassy in Berlin, more) More police reaction and brutality from Jimmy Dore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOvTxt_bi20 -- (6m 50s) "San Jose Cop Brutally Attacks Protestor & Rest of Cops Join In" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJLzOW0eRAo -- (6m 02s) "NYPD Intentionally Runs Over Protestors In Broad Daylight" -J From karenaram at hotmail.com Sun May 31 23:00:18 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 16:00:18 -0700 Subject: [Peace] There will be a "Black Lives Matter" protest June 1st. 3:00pm at the Court House in Urbana. Message-ID: There will be a Black Lives Matter protest 3:00 on Monday at the Court House in Urbana. Distancing and Masks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karenaram at hotmail.com Sun May 31 23:39:11 2020 From: karenaram at hotmail.com (Karen Aram) Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 16:39:11 -0700 Subject: [Peace] Market Place Mall earlier today, six stores looted. Message-ID: https://www.facebook.com/wandtv/videos/2701783366742181/?hc_location=ufi Snucks and other stores are closed down. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: