[imc-us-process] Re: [IMC-US] The "USA" Label for the New Site

[michael medow]

Regarding the question of the "US-IMC" name, I think another way of looking
at this problem is not just from the perspective that individual IMCs could
choose not to participate in a US-IMC, but also that they could, if they
felt so inclined, choose to build an new IMC that could provide an
alternative mechanism for covering territory currently occupied by the USA.
For example, we could have a US-IMC but at the same time have an
IMC-Aztalan.

I work with the Michigan IMC but I've never had any pretensions about
holding any indymedia sovereignty over the territory that is Michigan. So
long as they carried good intentions, I would never block the development of
an IMC-Upper Peninsula or an IMC-Detroit. These would merely be resources
that could exist to complement the already existing Michigan IMC.

I support a US-IMC not because I support the USA, but because I recognize
that the USA is a common condition that everyone living within the USA has
to deal with. And a US-IMC will be a powerful tool for activists living in
the territory currently occupied by the USA.

Furthermore, I challenge anyone to provide an example of a nation-state that
was constructed through means that would be considered legitimate by all. I
don't believe this is possible and in that sense, I feel that every IMC
would fail this litmus test. I think we would be applying exceptional
standards to apply this test to the USA.

hope that contributed something constructive to this debate.

mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sascha Meinrath" <sascha at ucimc.org>
To: "Andy Pyle" <andypie at earthlink.net>
Cc: "IMC-US Working Group" <imc-us at lists.cu.groogroo.com>; "Cleveland
indymedia" <imc-cleveland at lists.indymedia.org>; "IMC-US-Process List"
<imc-us-process at lists.indymedia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:35 PM
Subject: [imc-us-process] Re: [IMC-US] The "USA" Label for the New Site


> Hi Andy,
>
> After our discussions about using USA -- it was agreed to go with the
> simpler "US" monicker.  Another main point that was discussed is that any
> IMC that wished to opt out of being a part of the IMC-US collaboration
> could do so.  This would allow for local decision-making in terms of
> whether to be a part of a national IMC collective.  As to your example
> concerning Hawai'i IMC -- I think it's a decision best left up to the
> Hawai'i IMC collective; if they wish to opt out of joining a US project no
> one is going to be angry with them.
>
> In terms of what the US IMC would be, I think the way it's being set up
> addresses the very question of self-determination you rightfully raise.
> It would be a collective of collectives -- where decisions about whether
> (and how) to be involved are left to local IMCs.  It would be more of a
> _resource_ that's made available to interested IMC -- an information
> dissemination point for stories, and a communications network for
> IMC-istas.
>
> Hope this alleviates your concerns,
>
> In solidarity,
>
> --Sascha Meinrath
> Urbana-Champaign IMC
>
> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Andy Pyle wrote:
>
> > I raised an objection to the USA title at the IMC caucus meeting at the
AMC that was more
> > of a gut reaction than an analysis, and there was also objection from my
fellow
> > Clevelander Kris.
> >
> > My somewhat existential objection was based simply on the fact that I
was tired of hearing
> > USA! USA! USA!.
> >
> > Actually my objections run far deeper and I want to apologize for not
being more
> > thought-out and political during the caucus, I was kind of taken by
surprise.
> >
> > The question is a POLITICAL question and not a question of technique and
I think we have
> > to put the politics in command of the tech aspect.
> >
> > The Question is "What is the USA and Who Gets To Decide?"
> >
> > As the US Gov't occupied and incorporated by force various pieces of
territory it took
> > into itself various nationalities  which became oppressed nations....
some would say
> > internal colonies.  I believe in the right of self-determination for
these nations and
> > don't think the US gov't should have the right to tell Indymedia that
"what it says goes"
> > as far as determining what is "The USA"
> >
> > I am not going to try to rank in order of importance or validity of
analysis the national
> > territories occupied by the US: Hawai'i, Puerto Rico, Occupied Mexico
(California, Texas,
> > Arizona.......), the lands of the Navajo, Dakota, Iroquois,
Cherokee....., and what some
> > call New Afrika, the former slave states containing the "Black Belt",
known for its rich
> > productive soil (North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama,
Mississippi, and
> > Louisiana.  I am simply going to use Hawai'i as an example.
> >
> > Would Hawai'i belong under a "USA.Indymedia" site?  Here is an occupied
country of its own
> > nationality which was forcefully seized by the US military and
incorporated as one of the
> > 50 States.  Even the US Congress has apologized for this act, although
they have not
> > offered to give it back.  Would you include a Hawai'i Indymedia under
"USA Indymedia"??
> > To do so would be to ratify the seizure and occupation.  Under the
present schema which
> > just includes cities and regions, the question doesn't come up.  But
under the USA (!)
> > schema, it does.
> >
> > And how about Los Angeles, Houston, Atlanta.......  Its a can of worms.
> >
> > Let us contrast ourselves to the evil French political theorist Chauvin
who made his mark
> > as a rabid nationalist and gave rise to the epithet "Chauvinist".
> >
> > This question of self-determination is not for Indymedia to decide. It
is a question of
> > principle. It is for the peoples of the oppressed nationalities to
decide. We are living
> > in a prisonhouse of nations-the phrase is from Lenin- and should stay
away from the
> > great-nation chauvinism that the USA.Indymedia title implies.
> >
> > Pick another title.
>
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