[imc-us-process] Re: [Imc-cleveland] Re: [IMC-US] The "USA" Label for the New Site

Fri Jun 20 16:27:53 CDT 2003

Just to toss another opinion in here... 

I think being critical of US foreign and domestic policies will be an
important part of any US Indymedia site we create.  But I'm not
particularly thrilled with choosing a name that will alienate potential
readers before they even visit the site.  

As we're starting out in this conversation, jumping to positions like: I
don't accept us.indymedia.org as a name, find something else, creates a
very difficult and possibly divisive situation for the group to work
with.  

Consensus works best if, before jumping to demands and ultimatums, we
raise concerns and then the group as a whole tries to find ways to meet
those concerns in ways everyone can live with and that most people feel
downright good about.  

Maybe there are ways we can take the concerns and interests behind this
position and find some creative options that may, or may not, involve
"us" or "usa" in the name.  

:-)  
John

p.s. I'm sorry I've posted so much to the list over the past two days.
I'll try and shut up for a bit and hope that some new voices will chime
in.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: imc-us-process-bounces at lists.indymedia.org
[mailto:imc-us-process-
> bounces at lists.indymedia.org] On Behalf Of patrick turner
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 6:38 PM
> To: andypie at earthlink.net; sascha at ucimc.org
> Cc: imc-cleveland at lists.indymedia.org; imc-us at lists.cu.groogroo.com;
imc-
> us-process at lists.indymedia.org
> Subject: [imc-us-process] Re: [Imc-cleveland] Re: [IMC-US] The "USA"
Label
> for the New Site
> 
> andy wrote:
> >Pick another title.
> 
> andy, do you (or anyone else) have a proposal for a "title" that would
> address the problems with using the "U$", U$A, and AmeriKKKan type
labels?
> 
> i think the main issues here are creating website to focus on the
struggle
> from within the "belly of the beast" so the global site isnt dominated
by
> news of interest to mostly people living in the "US".
> 
> this may be a problem of editorial choices made by the global
editorial
> group on whether stories are really of "global" interest, but since i
> havent
> been active in the global network i cant say for sure...  por ejemplo,
> right
> now there is currently two features on the global site that deal with
US
> based news, one is about US media deregulation and the other is about
the
> meeting in sacramento of US and global ministers about deciding farm
and
> food issues.  seems to me the trouble may be partly an editorial
issue, a
> strictly US site will not completely solve an editorial imbalance
> especially
> if the majority of participation in global site comes from the US.
> 
> i do see the need for a site where people can go to find news on the
> struggles in the land shadowed by the superpower's stars and bars, and
> think
> it would help with the concerns about the inbalance of coverage.
> 
> i dont know if my analysis is correct, just my thoughts.
> 
> id like to see the project move along in "alpha" or "beta" form as we
> address these issues
> 
> aloha,
> 
> patrick
> cleveland imc
> 
> 
> >From: Andy Pyle <andypie at earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: andypie at earthlink.net
> >To: Sascha Meinrath <sascha at ucimc.org>
> >CC: IMC-US Working Group <imc-us at lists.cu.groogroo.com>, Cleveland
> >indymedia <imc-cleveland at lists.indymedia.org>, IMC-US-Process List
> ><imc-us-process at lists.indymedia.org>
> >Subject: [Imc-cleveland] Re: [IMC-US] The "USA" Label for the New
Site
> >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:17:19 -0400
> >
> >I am heartened by the fact that my thoughts are being considered i
had no
> >idea what the
> >response would be.
> >
> >It doesn't seem to be enough that the local IMC collectives will each
opt
> >in or out.  Seems
> >likely to me that the IMC collectives may be made up mostly of tech
or
> >media oriented "Anglo"
> >persons while the surrounding populations are people of color.
Decisions
> >on self-determination
> >should be made by the members of the oppressed nations, in their
numbers.
> >
> >Two very casual and somewhat tongue in cheek  ideas:
> >"bellyofthebeast-US.indymedia.org"  or the
> >perhaps confusing "babylon-US.indymedia.org"
> >
> >Sascha Meinrath wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Andy,
> > >
> > > After our discussions about using USA -- it was agreed to go with
the
> > > simpler "US" monicker.  Another main point that was discussed is
that
> >any
> > > IMC that wished to opt out of being a part of the IMC-US
collaboration
> > > could do so.  This would allow for local decision-making in terms
of
> > > whether to be a part of a national IMC collective.  As to your
example
> > > concerning Hawai'i IMC -- I think it's a decision best left up to
the
> > > Hawai'i IMC collective; if they wish to opt out of joining a US
> project
> >no
> > > one is going to be angry with them.
> > >
> > > In terms of what the US IMC would be, I think the way it's being
set
> up
> > > addresses the very question of self-determination you rightfully
> raise.
> > > It would be a collective of collectives -- where decisions about
> whether
> > > (and how) to be involved are left to local IMCs.  It would be more
of
> a
> > > _resource_ that's made available to interested IMC -- an
information
> > > dissemination point for stories, and a communications network for
> > > IMC-istas.
> > >
> > > Hope this alleviates your concerns,
> > >
> > > In solidarity,
> > >
> > > --Sascha Meinrath
> > > Urbana-Champaign IMC
> > >
> > > On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Andy Pyle wrote:
> > >
> > > > I raised an objection to the USA title at the IMC caucus meeting
at
> >the AMC that was more
> > > > of a gut reaction than an analysis, and there was also objection
> from
> >my fellow
> > > > Clevelander Kris.
> > > >
> > > > My somewhat existential objection was based simply on the fact
that
> I
> >was tired of hearing
> > > > USA! USA! USA!.
> > > >
> > > > Actually my objections run far deeper and I want to apologize
for
> not
> >being more
> > > > thought-out and political during the caucus, I was kind of taken
by
> >surprise.
> > > >
> > > > The question is a POLITICAL question and not a question of
technique
> >and I think we have
> > > > to put the politics in command of the tech aspect.
> > > >
> > > > The Question is "What is the USA and Who Gets To Decide?"
> > > >
> > > > As the US Gov't occupied and incorporated by force various
pieces of
> >territory it took
> > > > into itself various nationalities  which became oppressed
> nations....
> >some would say
> > > > internal colonies.  I believe in the right of self-determination
for
> >these nations and
> > > > don't think the US gov't should have the right to tell Indymedia
> that
> >"what it says goes"
> > > > as far as determining what is "The USA"
> > > >
> > > > I am not going to try to rank in order of importance or validity
of
> >analysis the national
> > > > territories occupied by the US: Hawai'i, Puerto Rico, Occupied
> Mexico
> >(California, Texas,
> > > > Arizona.......), the lands of the Navajo, Dakota, Iroquois,
> >Cherokee....., and what some
> > > > call New Afrika, the former slave states containing the "Black
> Belt",
> >known for its rich
> > > > productive soil (North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia,
Alabama,
> >Mississippi, and
> > > > Louisiana.  I am simply going to use Hawai'i as an example.
> > > >
> > > > Would Hawai'i belong under a "USA.Indymedia" site?  Here is an
> >occupied country of its own
> > > > nationality which was forcefully seized by the US military and
> >incorporated as one of the
> > > > 50 States.  Even the US Congress has apologized for this act,
> although
> >they have not
> > > > offered to give it back.  Would you include a Hawai'i Indymedia
> under
> >"USA Indymedia"??
> > > > To do so would be to ratify the seizure and occupation.  Under
the
> >present schema which
> > > > just includes cities and regions, the question doesn't come up.
But
> >under the USA (!)
> > > > schema, it does.
> > > >
> > > > And how about Los Angeles, Houston, Atlanta.......  Its a can of
> >worms.
> > > >
> > > > Let us contrast ourselves to the evil French political theorist
> >Chauvin who made his mark
> > > > as a rabid nationalist and gave rise to the epithet
"Chauvinist".
> > > >
> > > > This question of self-determination is not for Indymedia to
decide.
> It
> >is a question of
> > > > principle. It is for the peoples of the oppressed nationalities
to
> >decide. We are living
> > > > in a prisonhouse of nations-the phrase is from Lenin- and should
> stay
> >away from the
> > > > great-nation chauvinism that the USA.Indymedia title implies.
> > > >
> > > > Pick another title.
> >
> >_________________________________________________________
> >"The only truly revolutionary act today
> >is to tell the truth about everything."
> >  -- Robert Anton Wilson
> >http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-cleveland
> 
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