Sehvilla is right (was Re: [Imc] twisted locks, twisted security)

Wed Feb 13 03:13:14 UTC 2002

At the risk of giving Mike L. more tasks, sorry Mike, could we build a
pole that we could wedge between the door handle and the floor to
effectively "lock" the door from the inside.  I've seen something like
this in the Harriet Carter catalog, and I don't know how well it will
work, but it might be a solution until the door gets fixed.

Russ

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:19:22 -0600 (CST) Brian Hagy
<bhagy at urbana.indymedia.org> writes:
> ok, there is an important point about the front door being missed.  
> when
> it is locked from the inside (when the latch is turned from the 
> inside),
> then no key from the outside can open it.  true having a doorbell 
> might
> solve this, so long as the person in the production room doesn't 
> have
> headphones on, or doesn't have their attention away from a light.  
> but
> more importantly, when that lock is turned, it loses it's alignment.
> There have been a couple times when someone has untaped the lock
> and turned it, and the lock becomes unaligned.  When that person 
> leaves,
> and locks up from the outside, the unaligned lock stays that way 
> (because
> most people don't know how to realign it), and thus the lock 
> continues to
> be unlockable from the outside with a key (requiring the landlords, 
> if
> they're home, or an angry tennant, if he's home, to let the person 
> in, so
> that that person can go all the way through the back way).
> 
> yes, the door needs to be fixed.  the door frame, actually, because 
> the
> door lock has been replaced a couple times in the past.  fixing the 
> door
> frame will be fairly expensive (redoing the concrete and bricks, and 
> the
> steel frame itself).  unless someone wants to step up with the money 
> to
> cover this, then we will need to wait until the landlords fix the 
> facade
> of the building, which is currently slated for this summer.
> 
> until then, maybe when people need to work on something other than 
> the
> website (which can be worked on then from the security of their own 
> home),
> they should make sure that, if they won't feel safe working at night 
> by
> themselves, either they plan ahead so that they work there during
> hours when people are there, or they call up friends.  Paul 
> Riismandel,
> who lives around the corner from the IMC, has graciously offered to 
> be
> available to hang out with folks at the IMC if they don't feel 
> comfortable
> being there alone, so long as you give him suffiecient notice (i 
> would
> recommend a couple days notice....though you'd need to plan ahead, 
> but
> that shouldn't be so difficult).  i think it is somewhat appropriate 
> to be
> responsible for your own safety (beyond what can be provided by the
> space, and true we need and will eventually have a front door that 
> locks
> correctly) when you can't utilize the space during the times that 
> some
> volunteer has agreed to keep open.
> 
> safety is a concern for everyone at the imc, and i hope no one is 
> thinking
> we're treating this concern flippantly. whereas, i do agree with 
> clint
> that some part of feeling safe is a personal responsibility (a 
> perspective
> of things), it is also necessary for the imc to do what is needed to 
> help
> maintain a safe environment.  perhaps until we raise the money to 
> replace
> the door, find a temporary lock situation, or the landlords fix the 
> facade
> of the building, we should reconsider who has keys to the building.  
> i
> liked jay's attempt to question what is entailed in being a member.  
> does
> that automatically mean they can get a key?  if someone is a member 
> and
> needs to use imc resources, does that mean they should automatically 
> get a
> key?  if a member of a library wants to do some research, does that 
> mean
> that person should be able to get a key to the library (ok, sure 
> that's
> kinda a stretch, cuz our hours are more limited than the library's, 
> but
> we're also a volunteer organization, thus we can't pay people to be 
> here
> to work, and have to work within our limitations).  this whole 
> question of
> who gets a key needs to be sorted out....does a member, does a media
> producer, does a staffer, do community folk who rent the place, etc.
> 
> it is important to be as flexible to the community as possible.  it 
> is
> also important listen to the concerns of the individuals who utilize 
> the
> imc, and balance them with the sustainability of the imc.  else, 
> what good
> are we as a community center?  if replacing the door is cost 
> prohibitive
> at the moment, then something else needs to thought up.  there have 
> been
> some proposals, such as the door bell idea (the problem with that is 
> that
> it doesn't solve the problem of a misaligned lock when the person 
> leaves
> for the night), locking the production room (which, though it might
> technically be the safest room in the space because the deadbolt is 
> much
> more secure than a flip lock, it doesn't address the claustrophobic 
> or
> psychologic fear), and using the space when others are there (either 
> imc
> staffers, or friends that you have arranged to have there).
> 
> the steering focus group is trying to listen to all concerns.  it 
> would be
> helpful if those with the biggest concerns attempt to come a 
> steering
> meeting (sundays at noon).  i realize that may not be possible, 
> however.
> there is also wednesday nite (1st and 3rd wednesdays of the month) 
> at 6:30
> when the space focus group meets.  this is another place to bring up
> things.  email does allow people to bring up concerns, but it sucks 
> as a
> format to resolve them, though it is possible (the global imc works 
> this
> way).  however, since we're all local, if attending one of the 
> regularly
> scheduled meetings is not possible, i would advocate for and with 
> those
> who have a strong concern about this matter to propose an 
> alternative time
> to get people also interested in this matter to together to come up 
> with some
> solution which can be presented to the sunday steering focus group 
> (by
> anyone from that meeting).
> 
> 
> thanks to all who have responded to this.  i like when people work
> together to try to solve things.
> 
> brian
> 
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Chas. 'Mark' Bee wrote:
> 
> >
> >    Not that I have any particular standing in the community, but I 
> think
> > it's past time to speak out, member or no.
> >
> >    On the several occasions I've had to visit the IMC, I noticed 
> that
> > there is a counter in the front room, and it seems that at various 
> times
> > there are staffers assigned thereabouts (which apparently makes 
> the IMC
> > 'staffed' at those times)..?
> >
> >    I fail to see why the IMC (or any other organization) should be 
> open
> > to street folk during times at which there is no staffer in the 
> front
> > room.  Likewise, those using the production room should probably 
> not be
> > considered staffers, without a doorbell or annunciator (these beep 
> when
> > someone comes in).  If a community member without a key wants to 
> use the
> > space, they should simply plan to arrive during a staffer's shift 
> or
> > make special arrangements.  Then, of course, there's always the 
> call
> > ahead, or from a pay phone upon arrival.
> >
> >    The onus of security should not be placed on doors/locks not 
> visible
> > from the street.  The production room doors, if I recall 
> correctly, are
> > primarily constructed of window glass and thin wooden struts - 
> easy
> > pickings for any individual wielding a chair - with the required 
> ruckus
> > effectively shielded from police/passersby observation or later 
> notice.
> > This sounds unlikely, true.  Whose life/health are folks willing 
> to
> > stake this wager with?  I could get through those doors in 30 
> seconds,
> > and I'm supposed to be 'disabled', fer chrissake.
> >
> >    Basically, if the IMC wants production to go on after hours, it 
> needs
> > to assuage the concerns of its producers by creating a 
> no-compromise
> > safe environment.  After-hours access by folks without keys should 
> not
> > be available without front room oversight.
> >
> >    After hours, no staffer, no appointment, no access.  Anything 
> else is
> > foolhardy and places personnel at risk with minimal return.  Lone
> > producers should be allowed to lock the front door, no question 
> about
> > it.  If this causes a real problem, wireless doorbells are 
> available for
> > around $20, and I think I saw someone offer one anyway.  
> Otherwise, I
> > suggest producers refuse to produce there/then, deadline or no.
> >
> >    That's about it - sorry if this harshes anyone's groove!  --CMB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Clint Popetz wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 03:31:37PM -0600, Sehvilla wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The UCIMC's sense of security seems as twisted as the broken 
> lock on the
> > > > door. While Steering Committee is taking serious steps to 
> protect the
> > > > UCIMC's equipment, sensibly regulating the equipment usage 
> policy, it
> > > > defends the silly idea that volunteers shouldn't keep the IMC 
> door locked,
> > > > no matter what, because the IMC must be open to everyone. Many 
> of the
> > > > volunteers at the IMC will not feel safe using the UC-IMC 
> space unless
> > > > they are able to lock the door behind themselves. THE IMC IS 
> NOT OPEN TO
> > > > EVERYONE IF ITS VOLUNTEERS/PRODUCERS CAN'T WORK THERE SAFELY!
> > > > It has been suggested that a volunteer could avoid security 
> problems by
> > > > working in the production room with the door locked. Some 
> IMCistas feel
> > > > like this is a solution, but it probably won't resolve the 
> security
> > > > concerns of most concerned volunteers. How is the volunteer to 
> staff the
> > > > IMC effectively, if they're locked in the production room?
> > >
> > > Similarly, how could they possibly staff the IMC effectively if 
> the
> > > front door is locked?  I think the point of the suggestion to 
> lock the
> > > production room door was not to provide safety while staffing, 
> but
> > > rather later at night.
> > >
> > > > What will they
> > > > do if a person comes up and knocks on the production room door 
> and asks
> > > > for help with something?
> > >
> > > Use common sense and their own feeling of personally safety to 
> decide
> > > how to act?
> > >
> > > > Yes, the production room has a phone - if someone
> > > > is disrupting the IMC, the volunteer who is locked in the 
> production room
> > > > can call 911. But if an attacker wants to hurt someone who's 
> working in
> > > > the production room, the deadbolt on the production-room door 
> offers
> > > > little protection to the volunteer.
> > >
> > > The production room deadbolt is actually a much more secure lock 
> than
> > > that on the front door.
> > >
> > > > They're far away from the front door,
> > > > and they're blocked, visually and acoustically, from anyone 
> passing-by on
> > > > the street. The production room is full of windows. Three of 
> these windows
> > > > are just large sheets of glass. What's stopping an attacker 
> from breaking
> > > > a window to attack someone in the production room? No one can 
> hear them
> > > > from the street. What protection does the IMC volunteer have 
> in that
> > > > situation?
> > >
> > > Ditto for an attacker approaching the front door, no?
> > >
> > > No amount of locks/procedures/safeguards can make someone feel 
> safe
> > > in any situation.  The suggestions that have been made by the 
> steering
> > > committee and others have been an attempt to balance the needs 
> of
> > > individuals using the space late at night without allowing the 
> space
> > > to be monopolized, which is essentially what happens when the 
> door is
> > > locked from the inside.
> > >
> > > My suggestion would be: if you don't feel safe working at the 
> IMC late
> > > at night without locking everyone else out, then use the buddy 
> system
> > > and/or come in to work during hours when others are present.  
> Safety
> > > in numbers...
> > >
> > >                                 -Clint
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> 
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