[OccupyCU] Jesse Francis presentation

Thu Nov 15 17:46:56 UTC 2012

Scott,

I am a left-wing Anarcho- Socialist primarily influenced by the writtings of James Connolly, and a Trade Unionist, and therefore I am  anti-fascist / anti-racist , and I have a lifetime of actions in this community to prove it !

With this said, I DO NOT believe the Bush appointed 9/11 Commision report or the corporate media propoganda of who did what and what supposedly happened on Sept. 11th 2001, and neither does a majority of the 9/11 Families of the victims killed on that day, nor do many World Trade Center tennants and maintenance employees, construction workers, police and firefighters who were there that day of the attack. 

On many, BUT NOT ALL, 9/11 Truth web-sites there is a lot of unregulated postings by ; lunatics, anti-semites, fascists, and in my opinion intentional disinformation to diecredit the 9/11 Truth movement.

My beliefs, your beliefs, or anyone's beliefs in our local Occupy group about 9/11 is irrelevent to the issue before us.
Which is that despite Jessie's statement that he is NOT anti-semetic or a fascist, you persist in attacking him for his beliefs that are different than yours about the 9/11 attacks, and that you are attempting to equate him and anyone it appears, that has a different view than yours about 9/11 as being a fascist and a racist.

This is irrational at best, especially since you were not even at the meeting !

I seconded Susan's suggestion at the meeting that we table any further discussion about Jessie's discussion on the website and the issue of 9/11.
I would further add that if there is any further discussion about the web-site and the 9/11 issue, that we first have a working group discuss this, which myself and Chris Evans suggested to Jesse and that we would be willing to participate in with him.

THEN later, the proposed working group can report to the general meeting and the group as a whole can make a decision democraticly.
This is what should be done in the spirit of Occupy, in my opinion.

If you want to participate in the working group discussion face to face, I am certain that no one would insist on your exclusion because of your opinions.
But to stereo-type and villanize someone who you disagree with about a particular issue is NOT in the spirit of Occupy !

David Johnson 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Scott Kimball 
  To: Sarah Lazare 
  Cc: ocCUpy 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] Jesse Francis presentation

  Chris,

  As Sarah said, silence is complicity. 

  First they came for the communists,
  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

  Then they came for the socialists,
  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

  Then they came for the trade unionists,
  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

  Then they came for me,
  and there was no one left to speak for me.

  On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Sarah Lazare <sarah.lazare at gmail.com> wrote:

    Hi All,

    If someone sends out something anti-semitic to an organizing listserv or brings anti-semitic messages into an organizing space, silence is complicity. If an organization tolerates racism, sexism, or any other form of bigotry, then that organization is responsible. At the very least, I would hope that if someone says something anti-semitic they would get push-back. I am very concerned that the only response I've seen to a proto-fascist, anti-semitic organization's presence at the local Occupy has been to criticize someone for speaking out against it. Have there been other responses that haven't been aired in this public online forum?

    Sarah

    On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Chris Goodrow <c_goodrow at hotmail.com> wrote:
      In all fairness, Scott, you're doing something similar that a number have people have done in regard to Occupy around the nation since it began.  You're taking one instance of what one person says and placing it all on the group. When one person shit on a police car, guess what?  That must mean that we're all dirty drugging hippies shitting on cars. So, rather than shit on ocCUpy, perhaps your issue should be with the one person you're taking issue with.

      I personally agree that we shouldn't be getting into the 911 truth conspiracy theories and it would only serve to discredit us further.  Of course, that is just me speaking as one person and not ocCUpy as a whole.

      Chris Goodrow
      (217) 898-5039

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 11:51:58 -0600
      From: scttkmbll at gmail.com
      To: stephenf1113 at yahoo.com
      CC: OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net

      Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] Jesse Francis presentation

      More from the website:

      "The Nazi's caused the death of 100's of thousands, not millions, and not in gas chambers.  Jews have used this ploy too long and at the expense of the lives of millions of Palestinians."

      "The Jews were a small minority of the 60 million killed in WWII. The gas chamber stories are grossly overblown."

      Who are "the Jews". Sounds like some "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" nonsense. This is just a rehashing of the "international jewry" nonsense that Nazis have been spouting for years. If you were honestly anti-zionist and not anti-semitic, you would be well advised to not refer to the state of Isreal as "the jews".

      Don't conflate your anti-semitism with anti-zionism. 

      On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:

        NewsFollowUp.com is very anti-Zionist because of the mountain of evidence to Zionist involvement in 9/11.  NewsFollowUp.com is NOT anti semitic.  There is a massive anti Zionist movement in Israel that deserves to be supported.  There is a huge difference between anti-semitism and anti-Zionism.
        I'm very interested in the outcome of this discussion within the OccupyCU group because it gets to the bare bones issues of income inequality, privacy, media ownership, civil rights...on and on.  If there is a consensus that agrees with Scott Kimball, I will gladly leave the group.
        Thank you,
        Steve Francis

------------------------------------------------------------------------
        From: Scott Kimball <scttkmbll at gmail.com>
        To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> 
        Cc: "OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net" <OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net> 
        Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:46 AM
        Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] Jesse Francis presentation

        Are you kidding me? 

        Everyone here should be aware of the fact that the "9-11 truth movement" is highly anti-semitic and connected to neo-fascist groups. If anyone bothered to go on the website, they would see this link:

        http://www.newsfollowup.com/Israel.htm

        Which boldly proclaims that "The holocaust is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind". I found this after about 2 minutes on the website. Trust me, it only gets worse from there. For those of you who were previously unaware, now you know. For everyone else, shame on you!

        In addition, why would you support this absurd discourse? There are real problems that we need to organize around and you are spending your time your time postulating conspiracy theories.

        Shame on you OccupyCU.

        Unless someone has a reasonable response as to why this poison is being brought into this community, I'd like to be removed from the listserv. I don't want to be associated with anti-semitic groups and, I'm sure, many of you do not as well. 

        On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:

          Hello all,
          Just wanted to clarify my presentation from Monday night at the OccupyCU meeting.
          I think I failed to emphasize the overall impression that I wanted to make, which is that I'm proposing and what all ready exists now on the internet is a 9/11 Truth Video Conference.
          I'm proposing this as an activity for the group that would not compete with other activities, all in our effort to define our purpose and identify activities that we all agree on that would be worthwhile to energize the group.
          It is also an effort to promote video conferencing as a tool or skill that we can use with all our activities locally.
          Because of the volume of traffic of NewsFollowUp.com, there are about 30,000 'impressions' of an advertisement for the 9/11 Truth Video Conference (held in CU) per month and about 200 'clicks' per month to the advertisement and the page that provides all the information about the conference.  Because of the scope of NewsFollowUp, these clicks are going to mostly a national but also an international audience, which doesn't help the effort locally, but is good for finding 'high profile activists' on a national basis that would want to give a video presentation at the video conference.  I'm sure there are people locally that could make presentations also.
          I don't think this amount of 'clicks' is nearly enough to get the word out so I'm soliciting for help and need suggestions on how to increase the reach of the advertisements.  Thus I will be taking my presentation to other groups in town.
          Anyway, I hope this is helpful.
          Thanks
          Steve Francis

          http://www.newsfollowup.com/

          http://www.newsfollowup.com/midwest_911_truth_conference_champaign-urbana_september_2013_newsfollowup.htm

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        -- 
        Scott Kimball
        Project Organizer
        American Federation of Teachers

        Higher Education Project

      -- 
      Scott Kimball
      Project Organizer
      American Federation of Teachers

      Higher Education Project

      _______________________________________________ OccupyCU mailing list OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu

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  -- 
  Scott Kimball
  Project Organizer
  American Federation of Teachers

  Higher Education Project

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