[Peace] [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Give War A Chance

Fri Apr 22 22:35:34 UTC 2022

"*More and more*, we're told outright war isn't just necessary and right,
but the thing that will solve America's existential problems"

"*More and more*"?! How could it be any more than it was already?

This is why LBJ had the right idea with the "War on Poverty." If we have to
have a war on something, let's have a war on something bad that it's
obvious you can't do anything about with guns. Let's have a "war on
poverty," let's have a "war on climate change," let's have a "war on
racism." Let's have a war on something bad, which it's obvious that you
can't do anything about by dropping a bomb on someone.

On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 3:09 PM C. G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *Matt Taibbi <taibbi at substack.com>
> *Subject: **Give War A Chance*
> *Date: *April 12, 2022 at 11:44:45 AM CDT
> *To: *cgestabrook at gmail.com
> *Reply-To: *Matt Taibbi <
> reply+uvpt4&692a&&bfd03b118b3c94cc59ae165b6c355087227e3dc833736808e88259dadf558800 at mg1.substack.com
> >
>
>
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJxVkduSojAQhp9G7qRIiAEucrE16g6uolvFjnpF5dBihkNYCOMyTz9xuNqqHKrTf7qT_5PcQmn6iXVmsN5zKezUAWvhMdRgLfTeOEBfaMVwgmiMPcWIQvEq9vRQ3HqAhuua2X4ErxtFrSW32rRPPQoI9u4sQhHcOBWUSLmSSiIaSnEDiBIauwSfm_JRaWglMNPWU9Fxrbya3a3thkX4Y4G3bliuhdD-MIrBcln50jTutHOz1B-wfPB-yZfyzl2VRbi1poJ2Ea5h2iGJ36YLrqv03UzHfIOP63RIm_quXlJ6yK_BMZfkkFc40w_NL9mn02n5-qb3-eaRrVO9f9l9qnOqj3r3EGEW7C-7-nrOAn5OxrQNfP3XYH61_24iPkj0-xePrj-bbUI-zqdxoKd92fxRxSmqo3zjaYYDjAOCMKKEkJWP_SgUknDgACEmJKG-7AISxwQvSNCU-L8fez2TJbhQ9MZUTlA-_f_OOPsLtzdjq-1UQMtFDWomY2e836yKElroHXZVcMvcI5IoRgmlSRjPKBy6FYodako811oZd6tls_tfh-a8Ow>
> Give War A Chance
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJxVkduSojAQhp9G7qRIiAEucrE16g6uolvFjnpF5dBihkNYCOMyTz9xuNqqHKrTf7qT_5PcQmn6iXVmsN5zKezUAWvhMdRgLfTeOEBfaMVwgmiMPcWIQvEq9vRQ3HqAhuua2X4ErxtFrSW32rRPPQoI9u4sQhHcOBWUSLmSSiIaSnEDiBIauwSfm_JRaWglMNPWU9Fxrbya3a3thkX4Y4G3bliuhdD-MIrBcln50jTutHOz1B-wfPB-yZfyzl2VRbi1poJ2Ea5h2iGJ36YLrqv03UzHfIOP63RIm_quXlJ6yK_BMZfkkFc40w_NL9mn02n5-qb3-eaRrVO9f9l9qnOqj3r3EGEW7C-7-nrOAn5OxrQNfP3XYH61_24iPkj0-xePrj-bbUI-zqdxoKd92fxRxSmqo3zjaYYDjAOCMKKEkJWP_SgUknDgACEmJKG-7AISxwQvSNCU-L8fez2TJbhQ9MZUTlA-_f_OOPsLtzdjq-1UQMtFDWomY2e836yKElroHXZVcMvcI5IoRgmlSRjPKBy6FYodako811oZd6tls_tfh-a8Ow>More
> and more, we're told outright war isn't just necessary and right, but the
> thing that will solve America's existential problems
> Matt Taibbi
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJxNkMGOhCAMhp9muK2RCooHDnvZ1yAVqkNGwWDNxrdfZrxs0rQ0bWn_zyPTkstl93yweDvH10420e-xEjMVcR5UXAwWRtkbEMGqII02Ih5uLkQbxtVyOUns57RGjxxzevfLVoF4WimNGXAwpIOnADoMoQWtO5pnMDjjvRTPECl5sjmtl9sxBrHaJ_N-PLrvB_xUO87pYPSvxuetpnvJc1ypvqDvWt19bcj8xRinKYpooQVolQTZK6V0A83QTV4hIVEHSo194_dWGaPgodptgeb_96JYv1BNp5LzqzYsb5WfShXpatzOFPlylHBaKdz6-Yb4IeIWSlQq3OCQbT1iHIwc-37szC24AtLSVKC9EnV1yHUq2fv8P2kQh4o> Apr
> 12
>
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJxVUtGupCAM_ZrxTYNQFR54uNlkf8MU6DhkVFzBvTv79Vv1aRPSllJ6TnrqsdCU9o_dUi7Vacby2ciu9J1nKoX26si0jzFYadpeyypYCK3udBXz-NyJFoyzLftB1Xa4OXosMa1nfStAVi8rO69hIO2dRNEKI_oAreqM6IZeCehuUDxCpNWTTev8GTeMoZrtq5QtP9TXQ_7k48Pa5MPlgv7d-LRwKi44EfsnFf86Pfcp6SF__LoD9TWlFPj-nMdtT9NOOcffxPlciDb-cUPI7gTpThg27vBv4ve9JtE5x_Rrh6hqUAPVpmt1jcEp6WgYjIYmqwYX_JtW_M43L-5xz-IKL5L5Cj2iJtk_a-nA1MC9a2MUdxaATzAdUPCjFFL-aRWIZlunKtrzLqCVbQ8AXSObQTkPSEikJIDpG78J0BrkA8Qyyf-GVO3WM3pBt6f05oLp1Ot6YYoj--VYY_mMtKKbKdxKlnsdLm3HiVbaeU3CiMUyCTPo1vS9UfqWjqXmmfBq9FAxdEj8a7UFo3PxHy1Dw-E> *Robert
> Kagan*
>
> Robert Kagan, neoconservative writer and husband to Deputy Undersecretary
> of State Victoria Nuland, wrote a piece called “The Price of Hegemony
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwtkc2OhCAMx59muGkAGQcPHPayr0EqVKcZBQMY49svjps0_ci_TZtfHRScYzrNFnNhl7Pl3NAEPPKCpWBie8ZkyRs5iF5L5o3yQj81o2ynhLgCLaakHdm2jws5KBTD1S-4kuxtJnCdnqRHAb6Tw-A79E4gON0NHEd1L4XdEwaHJobltBuQZ4t5l7LlR_fzkL_VjuNop5iQ5gDTBJRy6-JaBUiF3IK5pvsnAQWsmeRSNlw1vK9F2nMmaP7V5oDUbIkcNm-ccY3hZGSuAa6EFL1S6tnK9tWNTgECYieVGvrWbVxpreRD8XWWbd7HXMB9ritYMm7GWo4pxk9tmC8sX6VSsTWue6ByWgwwLuhvYOWm_kVoZwyY6je8hWLqEcNLi6Hvh07fhCrRp9D1A71idbWPdSqYAjSO9AcxNJnF>”
> in *Foreign Affairs *last week that was fascinating. If I’d written his
> opening, people would denounce me as a Putin-concubine:
>
> *Although it is obscene to blame the United States for Putin’s inhumane
> attack on Ukraine, to insist that the invasion was entirely unprovoked is
> misleading. *
>
> *Just as Pearl Harbor was the consequence of U.S. efforts to blunt
> Japanese expansion on the Asian mainland, and just as the 9/11 attacks were
> partly a response to the United States’ dominant presence in the Middle
> East after the first Gulf War, so Russian decisions have been a response to
> the expanding post–Cold War hegemony of the United States and its allies in
> Europe.*
>
> Kagan went on to make an argument straight out of *Dr. Strangelove*.
> Instead of doing what some critics want and focusing on “improving the
> well-being of Americans,” the U.S. government is instead properly
> recognizing the responsibility that comes with being a superpower. So,
> while Russia’s invasion may indeed have been a foreseeable consequence of a
> decision to expand our hegemonic reach, now that we’re here, there’s only
> one option left. Total commitment:
>
> *It is better for the United States to risk confrontation with belligerent
> powers when they are in the early stages of ambition and expansion, not
> after they have already consolidated substantial gains. Russia may possess
> a fearful nuclear arsenal, but the risk of Moscow using it is not higher
> now than it would have been in 2008 or 2014, if the West had intervened
> then. And it has always been extraordinarily small…*
>
>
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlkMtqhDAUhp_GLCU3NS6yKJShLQx0V7oKuRydMJqIJhXfvnGEcELOJf_5P6sTjHE95BK3hM6g0rGADLBvE6QEK8obrMo7SXvSCoqc5I6IRiC_qWEFmLWfZFozoCWbyVudfAxnP8GcoofE3dCTBjgmRjhN2eA6w7BjXae1xjBcojo7D8GCjGE61KK9Q5N8pLRsFXur6K2cfd_rI-aUDdQ2zmdGJ_uo2O2vYu_d93z_vP80H1-_yEuKKcWcUNJyzpua1h0zlmvQAIxy3re1XTAXgtOK43mk9ZbNlrR9nj-jVdoRytOsMT5Lw3h6fFWKRVXuOQefDgVBmwnc5T5dCF881AgB1oLWKZ1kWaLvBOnbtmfislvwNEQUnC1HRdrFMhVk0t4Y_w8XXYaL>
>
> A month after Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, blood seems to be rushing to
> all the wrong places across the Commentariat, which has begun in earnest
> the predictable process of asking the public to dismiss fears of nuclear
> combat. Headlines of the “We’ll take those odds” variety are springing up
> everywhere, from the *Seattle Times *(“Atrocities change the nuclear
> weapons calculus”) to *Radio Free Europe *(“Former NATO Commander Says
> Western Fears Of Nuclear War Are Preventing A Proper Response To Putin”) to
> Fox (which had on Sean Penn, of all people, to say to Sean Hannity
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlkEGOhCAQRU_TLI1ggbJgMZu5himg2iajSBDT8fZTdicE-KGK-v8FbLTs9XJlP5q4t7ldhVym97FSa1TFeVCdU3TKSjMpER1EOelJpGN-VqIN0-paPUmU068pYEt7vutlD0q8nJSD7Z8BwGhFIYYAIWoclQwavabhOxTPmCgHcnter7lgimJ1r9bK8Rh-HuqXV3un208X9o0V5gsLVtxKWlkeDdt58EVqKcfRKqmMNWCsluzUqV6pHqSSBgB0p7px8AGQkGhQANZ0ofQwTaAe0G-L6o7T85fh754mqgsLsfR13_-4YLkzf1448szndubUrpky-pXil0b7Iv3wmRfKVBl1nLE5NmHHSVpj7DB94zMuNsp4DQgeHXfuyq5h8j79A-psiq4>,
> “Countries that have nuclear weapons can remain intimidated to use them,
> and we’re seeing that now with our own country”). This is fast becoming a
> bipartisan consensus. Check out Republican Adam Kinzinger’s recent comment:
> [image: Twitter avatar for @AdamKinzinger]Adam Kinzinger @AdamKinzinger
> If we let nukes prevent us from action then expect literally every country
> to try to get nukes in next few years
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlkEGOwyAMRU9TlhEQILBg0c1s5hCIgJuiJhCBoypz-iGthIAvbL7_Cx5hKfW0e2lIrs3huYPN8G4rIEIlR4PqUrTcMKU5iVZEpqUmqblHBdh8Wi3WA8h-zGsKHlPJVz2jgpOn9TAFGUOUko6gJgogTYigZqMnL-Xja-qPmCAHsCWvp9t9imS1T8S93cb7jf_0he90zTOEsnV1j377Tfkv5QVq1w09Hq1fmGSjVlIwaYzgykx0JMlyyjkVjDMlhJADH6ZxDsKDBxi5EEYNYadCa8Fvgm4LH9ox9y_D67Ij1YYFupxrKa9esFyhPy89s-vnduSEp4Ps5xXiFwd-mX4AuQUy1M46Oo-2D2EmzYxSZtTf_J2XZLrzVYJ061h6V7bo0zynf7cmiyQ>
>
> April 12th 2022
> 387 Retweets3,180 Likes
>
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlkEGOwyAMRU9TlhEQILBg0c1s5hCIgJuiJhCBoypz-iGthIAvbL7_Cx5hKfW0e2lIrs3huYPN8G4rIEIlR4PqUrTcMKU5iVZEpqUmqblHBdh8Wi3WA8h-zGsKHlPJVz2jgpOn9TAFGUOUko6gJgogTYigZqMnL-Xja-qPmCAHsCWvp9t9imS1T8S93cb7jf_0he90zTOEsnV1j377Tfkv5QVq1w09Hq1fmGSjVlIwaYzgykx0JMlyyjkVjDMlhJADH6ZxDsKDBxi5EEYNYadCa8Fvgm4LH9ox9y_D67Ij1YYFupxrKa9esFyhPy89s-vnduSEp4Ps5xXiFwd-mX4AuQUy1M46Oo-2D2EmzYxSZtTf_J2XZLrzVYJ061h6V7bo0zynf7cmiyQ>
>
> Most of us look back at 9/11 and wish we’d tried to narrow the scope of
> the problem, not expand it in grandiose ways and make it the central fact
> of the lives of every person on the planet. We were told right away that
> 9/11 meant so much more than a policing problem, that instead of a few
> nut-jobs slipping through the net, bin Laden’s Twin Tower attacks heralded
> an inevitable, and desirable, Final Battle between new and old worlds.
> We’re going through something similar now. The pundit excitement over the
> final clash between “Democracy and Autocracy” perhaps being at hand reminds
> me exactly of the open praying for signs of the Apocalypse I once heard among
> the Rapture-ready flock
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwlkE1rwzAMhn9NfWuwFSd1Dj4MxnYdY4fdgmyrmVliB0ehZL9-bgtCQh8venk8Mk25HHbNG4t7GvlYySa6bTMxUxH7RmWMwcKgegMiWB2U6YyI23gtRAvG2XLZSay7m6NHjjnd75XUIH6sUkGbQTmJXrZOXYxrpWl7BFABQuieT3EPkZInm9N8jCvGIGb7w7xup_blBG81brdbgwv-5dT4vNTBeyHk8ysVTBMtlPj8RaXE6xHTdP7Ic-Tot_MnzXGqlqogrDXJ1nQdyB6-RbQgAaRWoHqtdddAc2md10hI1ILWQ9_4VWpjNJy0XCZott1tjP73bkEU6yeqrSs5_9aD6c7isakoxlqXPUU-RkroZgpPSvxE_eA2TpSqfaYwIttqYrgYNfT90JonloqxU6Zi77Wor0OuqmQZo3PxH3VqlAs>
>  of pastor John Hagee in San Antonio.
> We saw a ton of this thinking after 9/11. World-domination advocates who’d
> been laughed out of meetings for years were taken seriously overnight.
> Rigid with jingoistic fervor, they were suddenly in print and on air
> everywhere, bursting with “plans for everyone
> <https://email.mg2.substack.com/c/eJwtkMtuwyAQRb_GLC0bjwksWCRqs-ki6qJrxGPioNjGwlDLf1-cVEKDmAd37rE64RDiLpewJnIElfYF5YzbOmJKGEleMSrvJBUt45Q4Ca7lPSd-VfeIOGk_yhQzkiWb0VudfJiP_rYBSh5SI9N4agwCYM8ZZUKjsCDunN4NCv4W1dl5nC3KMI-7WrR3ZJSPlJa16s4VvZazbVu9h5yywdqG6cjoZB9Vd_2tug9xuZw_f26369c38ZI2lDbQ0pYBQF_T-tQZCxo1YkcBBKvt0gDnQCtopoHWazZr0vZ5_EyitAOWp4khPEvDcHh8VYpFVe4pzz7tCmdtRnRv9-mN8MVDDThjLGid0kmWJcSJt4Ix0f3bLXj6lhecDEiRdqFMzTJpb4z_AydLhoA>,”
> as Iggy Pop put it. Such people always rush to the front of the debate in
> these moments and they’re always listened to, until about ten years later,
> when it quietly becomes okay to reflect on a question we probably should
> have pondered in the moment, i.e. “Hey, are these people crazy?”...
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