[Commotion-discuss] Chilling effect, TP-Link locking their routers against 3rd party firmware
Dan Staples
dan at disman.tl
Thu Feb 18 15:09:14 EST 2016
That is very disappointing. Thanks for asking one of their reps, Adam.
It seems like the hairsplitting comes down to the question of whether
TP-Link started locking down their firmware before the FCC proposed
rulemaking came out. If they did, then it implies a possibly different
motivation than simply preemptively complying with regulations.
The only reference I read to the first reported locked out TP-Link
firmware is Archer C7 v2 151014 US, from OpenWRT wiki[1]. Assuming this
firmware build is from Oct 14, 2015 (rather than Oct 15, 2014), this is
*after* the proposed rulemaking was published by the FCC (July 21,
2015)[2]. But maybe I'm reading the date wrong...
Dan
[1]
https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates
[2] https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-15-92A1.pdf
On 02/18/2016 02:45 PM, Ben West wrote:
> Adam, thanks for chiming in, especially since it was your chat with
> TP-Link tech support.
>
> The hair-splitting I saw was at venues like news.ycombinator.org
> <http://news.ycombinator.org>, not on listservs we likely are both
> subscribed to, and should say found such quibbles trivial. TP-Link
> clearly was motivated by proposed FCC rulemaking, although they may
> indeed have their own motivations at the same time.
>
> The specific detail that they're locking down 2.4GHz products too was
> quite galling; no FCC actions pertain to those devices. So, either
> their products share enough of the same firmware tree that inexpensively
> placing locks on one product necessitates placing locks on all products,
> or TP-Link is mindfully wanting to lock out 3rd party firmware. (Sadly,
> not the first time this sequence of events has run its course, cf.
> history with Meraki.)
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Adam Longwill
> <adam.longwill at metamesh.org <mailto:adam.longwill at metamesh.org>> wrote:
>
> Ben, unfortunately there is no hair-splitting according to the chat
> record I have pasted below from 2 days ago. TP-Link is locking down
> all devices due to FCC regulations.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Chat transcript
>
>
>
>
> *Name:* Adam Longwill
>
> *E-mail:* adam.longwill at metamesh.org <mailto:adam.longwill at metamesh.org>
>
> *Choose Product Category:* Wireless Router
>
> *Please Describe Your Model No. and Problem* WDR3600
>
>
>
>
>
> Camille Tue, 02/16/16 09:05:00 pm America/New_York
>
> Hello. How may I help you?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam Longwill 09:05:15 pm
>
> I cannot view my support tickets
> my support tickets were closed because I could not view or reply to them
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Camille 09:05:34 pm
>
> may I have the ticket number?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam Longwill 09:05:34 pm
>
> and my original support issues were not resolved.
> I wish I knew- but because the support site is broken I have to
> check my e-mail.
> 194265 is one
> 195288 is the other regarding your broken site
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Camille 09:07:07 pm
>
> regarding ticket issue, please follow steps below to have a try
> 1. Make sure you have clean up all the history of the web browser.
> 2. Please try different computers and web browser.Did you have the
> same problem? 3. Try to refresh by pressing the Ctrl+F5. 4. What is
> the operating system and version of your computers? Is that 32bit or
> 64bit? 5. What is the version of the web browser you have tried?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam Longwill 09:08:24 pm
>
> I have tried multiple computers multiple browsers, and cleared cookies
> I'm using Chrome current and have tried firefox and IE
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Camille 09:09:12 pm
>
> did you clear history of web browser?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam Longwill 09:09:17 pm
>
> yes
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Camille 09:09:36 pm
>
> OK
> Dear Adam, Many thanks for your valuable reply. If you cannot
> replace the firmware with a third party firmware, then please try to
> downgrade the firmware to the older version to see whether it can
> work. Sorry that we don't have the information about the unlocked
> firmware. This has to be tried by yourself. Sorry again for the
> inconvenience caused and your great cooperation & Patience will be
> highly appreciated.
> this is my colleague reply
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam Longwill 09:10:01 pm
>
> downgrading does not work
> I get an 18005 errror
> upon attempting to downgrade
> I want to know if this is because of the FCC's rules regarding
> broadcast strength and DFS control. Has TP-Link complied with these
> rules and locked down its firmware and if so, for what models
> I need to know if I am going to continue purchasing devices from you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Camille 09:13:25 pm
>
> wait one moment please
> Thanks for your waiting, right now only these products has
> limitation on firmware: Archer C7 V2 Archer C1900 V1 Touch P5 V1
> Archer C2600 V1 Archer C3200 V1 Archer C2 V1 Archer C5 V2 Archer C8
> V1 Archer C9 V1 TL-WR841N V11 TL-WDR3500 V1 TL-WR940N V3.0
> TL-WR1043ND V3.0 TL-WR710N(USA) TL-WR841N V9.0
> and all products will also limite firmware in the future.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam Longwill 09:26:19 pm
>
> Wow. Thank you. I'm impressed with your digging
> And this limitation is due to FCC rule clarifications in 2015?
> And not some other reason
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Camille 09:28:15 pm
>
> Right, due to FCC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam Longwill 09:28:50 pm
>
> Thank you very much. Can you explain why the WDR3600 appears to be
> locked down? Is it possible that your list is not totally updated?
> And do you have a method or avenue that people who wish to use other
> firmware have?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Camille 09:34:02 pm
>
> Yes, wdr3600 as dual band wifi router, is also locked down. And
> there is no other way to use other firmware. Sorry for that
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam Longwill 09:34:19 pm
>
> Thank you very much, Camille. You've been very helpful.
>
>
>
>
>
> Duration: 29m 32s
>
> Chat started
> on: http://www.tp-link.us/support-contact.html#Hotline-Support
> <http://www.tp-link.us/support-contact.html#Hotline-Support>
> Referrer: http://www.tp-link.us/ <http://www.tp-link.us/>
> Visitor geolocation: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States /
> 96.89.42.102
> Chat group: US
>
> <http://twitter.com/LiveChat> <http://facebook.com/LiveChat>
>
> E-mail from LiveChat
> <http://www.livechatinc.com/?utm_source=livechat&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=chat_transcript>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Ben West <ben at gowasabi.net
> <mailto:ben at gowasabi.net>> wrote:
>
> Presently, Commotion is being built for TP-Link WDR3600 and
> WDR4300, among others.
> https://commotionwireless.net/docs/guides-howtos/recommended-hardware/
> https://commotionwireless.net/download/routers/
>
> Please be advised people have confirmed these very TP-Link
> products and plenty others are now appearing in the field with
> 3rd-party firmware upgrade locked out. I.e. Commotion's install
> instructions will no longer work.
>
> The particular conversation with the TP-Link support rep quoted
> below also mentions 2.4GHz products being locked too, with FCC
> rulemaking cited as (incorrect) reason.
>
> http://ml.ninux.org/pipermail/battlemesh/2016-February/004379.html
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11122966
> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/46c0t0/tplink_begins_router_lockdown_due_to_fcc_proposed/
> https://www.gofundme.com/save_wifi_round_2 (funding campaign
> started in response)
>
> I read some hair-splitting about whether TP-Link started doing
> this in response to the FCC proposed rulemaking re: 5.8GHz
> operation, or whether they had their own reasons.
>
> Precise details of the lockdown are still sketchy, but it looks
> like a serial console is needed to override it.
>
> --
> Ben West
> http://gowasabi.net
> ben at gowasabi.net <mailto:ben at gowasabi.net>
> 314-246-9434 <tel:314-246-9434>
>
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> --
> Ben West
> http://gowasabi.net
> ben at gowasabi.net <mailto:ben at gowasabi.net>
> 314-246-9434
>
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