[Commotion-discuss] Chilling effect, TP-Link locking their routers against 3rd party firmware
Dan Staples
dan at disman.tl
Thu Feb 18 15:10:36 EST 2016
Apologies, I posted the wrong link for the first footnote of my previous
email: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer-c5-c7-wdr7500
On 02/18/2016 03:09 PM, Dan Staples wrote:
> That is very disappointing. Thanks for asking one of their reps, Adam.
>
> It seems like the hairsplitting comes down to the question of whether
> TP-Link started locking down their firmware before the FCC proposed
> rulemaking came out. If they did, then it implies a possibly different
> motivation than simply preemptively complying with regulations.
>
> The only reference I read to the first reported locked out TP-Link
> firmware is Archer C7 v2 151014 US, from OpenWRT wiki[1]. Assuming this
> firmware build is from Oct 14, 2015 (rather than Oct 15, 2014), this is
> *after* the proposed rulemaking was published by the FCC (July 21,
> 2015)[2]. But maybe I'm reading the date wrong...
>
> Dan
>
>
> [1]
> https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates
> [2] https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-15-92A1.pdf
>
> On 02/18/2016 02:45 PM, Ben West wrote:
>> Adam, thanks for chiming in, especially since it was your chat with
>> TP-Link tech support.
>>
>> The hair-splitting I saw was at venues like news.ycombinator.org
>> <http://news.ycombinator.org>, not on listservs we likely are both
>> subscribed to, and should say found such quibbles trivial. TP-Link
>> clearly was motivated by proposed FCC rulemaking, although they may
>> indeed have their own motivations at the same time.
>>
>> The specific detail that they're locking down 2.4GHz products too was
>> quite galling; no FCC actions pertain to those devices. So, either
>> their products share enough of the same firmware tree that inexpensively
>> placing locks on one product necessitates placing locks on all products,
>> or TP-Link is mindfully wanting to lock out 3rd party firmware. (Sadly,
>> not the first time this sequence of events has run its course, cf.
>> history with Meraki.)
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Adam Longwill
>> <adam.longwill at metamesh.org <mailto:adam.longwill at metamesh.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Ben, unfortunately there is no hair-splitting according to the chat
>> record I have pasted below from 2 days ago. TP-Link is locking down
>> all devices due to FCC regulations.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Chat transcript
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Name:* Adam Longwill
>>
>> *E-mail:* adam.longwill at metamesh.org <mailto:adam.longwill at metamesh.org>
>>
>> *Choose Product Category:* Wireless Router
>>
>> *Please Describe Your Model No. and Problem* WDR3600
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Camille Tue, 02/16/16 09:05:00 pm America/New_York
>>
>> Hello. How may I help you?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam Longwill 09:05:15 pm
>>
>> I cannot view my support tickets
>> my support tickets were closed because I could not view or reply to them
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Camille 09:05:34 pm
>>
>> may I have the ticket number?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam Longwill 09:05:34 pm
>>
>> and my original support issues were not resolved.
>> I wish I knew- but because the support site is broken I have to
>> check my e-mail.
>> 194265 is one
>> 195288 is the other regarding your broken site
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Camille 09:07:07 pm
>>
>> regarding ticket issue, please follow steps below to have a try
>> 1. Make sure you have clean up all the history of the web browser.
>> 2. Please try different computers and web browser.Did you have the
>> same problem? 3. Try to refresh by pressing the Ctrl+F5. 4. What is
>> the operating system and version of your computers? Is that 32bit or
>> 64bit? 5. What is the version of the web browser you have tried?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam Longwill 09:08:24 pm
>>
>> I have tried multiple computers multiple browsers, and cleared cookies
>> I'm using Chrome current and have tried firefox and IE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Camille 09:09:12 pm
>>
>> did you clear history of web browser?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam Longwill 09:09:17 pm
>>
>> yes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Camille 09:09:36 pm
>>
>> OK
>> Dear Adam, Many thanks for your valuable reply. If you cannot
>> replace the firmware with a third party firmware, then please try to
>> downgrade the firmware to the older version to see whether it can
>> work. Sorry that we don't have the information about the unlocked
>> firmware. This has to be tried by yourself. Sorry again for the
>> inconvenience caused and your great cooperation & Patience will be
>> highly appreciated.
>> this is my colleague reply
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam Longwill 09:10:01 pm
>>
>> downgrading does not work
>> I get an 18005 errror
>> upon attempting to downgrade
>> I want to know if this is because of the FCC's rules regarding
>> broadcast strength and DFS control. Has TP-Link complied with these
>> rules and locked down its firmware and if so, for what models
>> I need to know if I am going to continue purchasing devices from you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Camille 09:13:25 pm
>>
>> wait one moment please
>> Thanks for your waiting, right now only these products has
>> limitation on firmware: Archer C7 V2 Archer C1900 V1 Touch P5 V1
>> Archer C2600 V1 Archer C3200 V1 Archer C2 V1 Archer C5 V2 Archer C8
>> V1 Archer C9 V1 TL-WR841N V11 TL-WDR3500 V1 TL-WR940N V3.0
>> TL-WR1043ND V3.0 TL-WR710N(USA) TL-WR841N V9.0
>> and all products will also limite firmware in the future.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam Longwill 09:26:19 pm
>>
>> Wow. Thank you. I'm impressed with your digging
>> And this limitation is due to FCC rule clarifications in 2015?
>> And not some other reason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Camille 09:28:15 pm
>>
>> Right, due to FCC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam Longwill 09:28:50 pm
>>
>> Thank you very much. Can you explain why the WDR3600 appears to be
>> locked down? Is it possible that your list is not totally updated?
>> And do you have a method or avenue that people who wish to use other
>> firmware have?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Camille 09:34:02 pm
>>
>> Yes, wdr3600 as dual band wifi router, is also locked down. And
>> there is no other way to use other firmware. Sorry for that
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam Longwill 09:34:19 pm
>>
>> Thank you very much, Camille. You've been very helpful.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Duration: 29m 32s
>>
>> Chat started
>> on: http://www.tp-link.us/support-contact.html#Hotline-Support
>> <http://www.tp-link.us/support-contact.html#Hotline-Support>
>> Referrer: http://www.tp-link.us/ <http://www.tp-link.us/>
>> Visitor geolocation: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States /
>> 96.89.42.102
>> Chat group: US
>>
>> <http://twitter.com/LiveChat> <http://facebook.com/LiveChat>
>>
>> E-mail from LiveChat
>> <http://www.livechatinc.com/?utm_source=livechat&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=chat_transcript>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Ben West <ben at gowasabi.net
>> <mailto:ben at gowasabi.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Presently, Commotion is being built for TP-Link WDR3600 and
>> WDR4300, among others.
>> https://commotionwireless.net/docs/guides-howtos/recommended-hardware/
>> https://commotionwireless.net/download/routers/
>>
>> Please be advised people have confirmed these very TP-Link
>> products and plenty others are now appearing in the field with
>> 3rd-party firmware upgrade locked out. I.e. Commotion's install
>> instructions will no longer work.
>>
>> The particular conversation with the TP-Link support rep quoted
>> below also mentions 2.4GHz products being locked too, with FCC
>> rulemaking cited as (incorrect) reason.
>>
>> http://ml.ninux.org/pipermail/battlemesh/2016-February/004379.html
>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11122966
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/46c0t0/tplink_begins_router_lockdown_due_to_fcc_proposed/
>> https://www.gofundme.com/save_wifi_round_2 (funding campaign
>> started in response)
>>
>> I read some hair-splitting about whether TP-Link started doing
>> this in response to the FCC proposed rulemaking re: 5.8GHz
>> operation, or whether they had their own reasons.
>>
>> Precise details of the lockdown are still sketchy, but it looks
>> like a serial console is needed to override it.
>>
>> --
>> Ben West
>> http://gowasabi.net
>> ben at gowasabi.net <mailto:ben at gowasabi.net>
>> 314-246-9434 <tel:314-246-9434>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Ben West
>> http://gowasabi.net
>> ben at gowasabi.net <mailto:ben at gowasabi.net>
>> 314-246-9434
>>
>>
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>
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