[Commotion-discuss] Chilling effect, TP-Link locking their routers against 3rd party firmware

Dan Staples dan at disman.tl
Thu Feb 18 15:10:36 EST 2016


Apologies, I posted the wrong link for the first footnote of my previous
email: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/archer-c5-c7-wdr7500

On 02/18/2016 03:09 PM, Dan Staples wrote:
> That is very disappointing. Thanks for asking one of their reps, Adam.
> 
> It seems like the hairsplitting comes down to the question of whether
> TP-Link started locking down their firmware before the FCC proposed
> rulemaking came out. If they did, then it implies a possibly different
> motivation than simply preemptively complying with regulations.
> 
> The only reference I read to the first reported locked out TP-Link
> firmware is Archer C7 v2 151014 US, from OpenWRT wiki[1]. Assuming this
> firmware build is from Oct 14, 2015 (rather than Oct 15, 2014), this is
> *after* the proposed rulemaking was published by the FCC (July 21,
> 2015)[2]. But maybe I'm reading the date wrong...
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> [1]
> https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates
> [2] https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-15-92A1.pdf
> 
> On 02/18/2016 02:45 PM, Ben West wrote:
>> Adam, thanks for chiming in, especially since it was your chat with
>> TP-Link tech support.
>>
>> The hair-splitting I saw was at venues like news.ycombinator.org
>> <http://news.ycombinator.org>, not on listservs we likely are both
>> subscribed to, and should say found such quibbles trivial.  TP-Link
>> clearly was motivated by proposed FCC rulemaking, although they may
>> indeed have their own motivations at the same time.
>>
>> The specific detail that they're locking down 2.4GHz products too was
>> quite galling; no FCC actions pertain to those devices.  So, either
>> their products share enough of the same firmware tree that inexpensively
>> placing locks on one product necessitates placing locks on all products,
>> or TP-Link is mindfully wanting to lock out 3rd party firmware.  (Sadly,
>> not the first time this sequence of events has run its course, cf.
>> history with Meraki.)
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Adam Longwill
>> <adam.longwill at metamesh.org <mailto:adam.longwill at metamesh.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     Ben, unfortunately there is no hair-splitting according to the chat
>>     record I have pasted below from 2 days ago. TP-Link is locking down
>>     all devices due to FCC regulations.
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Chat transcript
>>
>>      
>>      	
>>
>>     *Name:* Adam Longwill
>>
>>     *E-mail:* adam.longwill at metamesh.org <mailto:adam.longwill at metamesh.org>
>>
>>     *Choose Product Category:* Wireless Router
>>
>>     *Please Describe Your Model No. and Problem* WDR3600
>>
>>     		
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Camille	Tue, 02/16/16 09:05:00 pm America/New_York	
>>      
>>     	Hello. How may I help you?
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Adam Longwill	09:05:15 pm	
>>      
>>     	I cannot view my support tickets
>>     my support tickets were closed because I could not view or reply to them
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Camille	09:05:34 pm	
>>      
>>     	may I have the ticket number?
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Adam Longwill	09:05:34 pm	
>>      
>>     	and my original support issues were not resolved.
>>     I wish I knew- but because the support site is broken I have to
>>     check my e-mail.
>>     194265 is one
>>     195288 is the other regarding your broken site
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Camille	09:07:07 pm	
>>      
>>     	regarding ticket issue, please follow steps below to have a try
>>     1. Make sure you have clean up all the history of the web browser.
>>     2. Please try different computers and web browser.Did you have the
>>     same problem? 3. Try to refresh by pressing the Ctrl+F5. 4. What is
>>     the operating system and version of your computers? Is that 32bit or
>>     64bit? 5. What is the version of the web browser you have tried?
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Adam Longwill	09:08:24 pm	
>>      
>>     	I have tried multiple computers multiple browsers, and cleared cookies
>>     I'm using Chrome current and have tried firefox and IE
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Camille	09:09:12 pm	
>>      
>>     	did you clear history of web browser?
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Adam Longwill	09:09:17 pm	
>>      
>>     	yes
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Camille	09:09:36 pm	
>>      
>>     	OK
>>     Dear Adam, Many thanks for your valuable reply. If you cannot
>>     replace the firmware with a third party firmware, then please try to
>>     downgrade the firmware to the older version to see whether it can
>>     work. Sorry that we don't have the information about the unlocked
>>     firmware. This has to be tried by yourself. Sorry again for the
>>     inconvenience caused and your great cooperation & Patience will be
>>     highly appreciated.
>>     this is my colleague reply
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Adam Longwill	09:10:01 pm	
>>      
>>     	downgrading does not work
>>     I get an 18005 errror
>>     upon attempting to downgrade
>>     I want to know if this is because of the FCC's rules regarding
>>     broadcast strength and DFS control. Has TP-Link complied with these
>>     rules and locked down its firmware and if so, for what models
>>     I need to know if I am going to continue purchasing devices from you.
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Camille	09:13:25 pm	
>>      
>>     	wait one moment please
>>     Thanks for your waiting, right now only these products has
>>     limitation on firmware: Archer C7 V2 Archer C1900 V1 Touch P5 V1
>>     Archer C2600 V1 Archer C3200 V1 Archer C2 V1 Archer C5 V2 Archer C8
>>     V1 Archer C9 V1 TL-WR841N V11 TL-WDR3500 V1 TL-WR940N V3.0
>>     TL-WR1043ND V3.0 TL-WR710N(USA) TL-WR841N V9.0
>>     and all products will also limite firmware in the future.
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Adam Longwill	09:26:19 pm	
>>      
>>     	Wow. Thank you. I'm impressed with your digging
>>     And this limitation is due to FCC rule clarifications in 2015?
>>     And not some other reason
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Camille	09:28:15 pm	
>>      
>>     	Right, due to FCC
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Adam Longwill	09:28:50 pm	
>>      
>>     	Thank you very much. Can you explain why the WDR3600 appears to be
>>     locked down? Is it possible that your list is not totally updated?
>>     And do you have a method or avenue that people who wish to use other
>>     firmware have?
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Camille	09:34:02 pm	
>>      
>>     	Yes, wdr3600 as dual band wifi router, is also locked down. And
>>     there is no other way to use other firmware. Sorry for that
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>      
>>      	Adam Longwill	09:34:19 pm	
>>      
>>     	Thank you very much, Camille. You've been very helpful.
>>     	
>>      
>>
>>      
>>      
>>     	Duration: 29m 32s
>>
>>     	Chat started
>>     on: http://www.tp-link.us/support-contact.html#Hotline-Support
>>     <http://www.tp-link.us/support-contact.html#Hotline-Support>
>>     	Referrer: http://www.tp-link.us/ <http://www.tp-link.us/>
>>     	Visitor geolocation: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States /
>>     96.89.42.102
>>     	Chat group: US
>>
>>     	<http://twitter.com/LiveChat>		<http://facebook.com/LiveChat>	
>>
>>     E-mail from LiveChat
>>     <http://www.livechatinc.com/?utm_source=livechat&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=chat_transcript>
>>
>>     	
>>
>>
>>     On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Ben West <ben at gowasabi.net
>>     <mailto:ben at gowasabi.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         Presently, Commotion is being built for TP-Link WDR3600 and
>>         WDR4300, among others.
>>         https://commotionwireless.net/docs/guides-howtos/recommended-hardware/
>>         https://commotionwireless.net/download/routers/
>>
>>         Please be advised people have confirmed these very TP-Link
>>         products and plenty others are now appearing in the field with
>>         3rd-party firmware upgrade locked out.  I.e. Commotion's install
>>         instructions will no longer work.
>>
>>         The particular conversation with the TP-Link support rep quoted
>>         below also mentions 2.4GHz products being locked too, with FCC
>>         rulemaking cited as (incorrect) reason.
>>
>>         http://ml.ninux.org/pipermail/battlemesh/2016-February/004379.html
>>         https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11122966
>>         https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/46c0t0/tplink_begins_router_lockdown_due_to_fcc_proposed/
>>         https://www.gofundme.com/save_wifi_round_2 (funding campaign
>>         started in response)
>>
>>         I read some hair-splitting about whether TP-Link started doing
>>         this in response to the FCC proposed rulemaking re: 5.8GHz
>>         operation, or whether they had their own reasons.
>>
>>         Precise details of the lockdown are still sketchy, but it looks
>>         like a serial console is needed to override it.
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Ben West
>>         http://gowasabi.net
>>         ben at gowasabi.net <mailto:ben at gowasabi.net>
>>         314-246-9434 <tel:314-246-9434>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Ben West
>> http://gowasabi.net
>> ben at gowasabi.net <mailto:ben at gowasabi.net>
>> 314-246-9434
>>
>>
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> 

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