[Cu-wireless] RE: Cu-wireless digest, Vol 1 #114 - 9 msgs
David Young
dyoung at onthejob.net
Mon Apr 29 14:16:53 CDT 2002
Cisco makes very nice equipment. Pricey, though. In Cisco's client
adapters is one of the most powerful radios on the market, 100mW.
Every very inexpensive APs support a variety of antennas by virtue of
having industry-standard RF connectors (N, SMA, TNC, ...). I do not have
a list of APs with connectors, though.
Dave
On Mon, Apr 29, 2002 at 10:36:38AM -0500, Shannon McMahon wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> I am new to this CU-wireless project, and I am anxious to find out more.
> At this very moment I am debating over what 802.11a/b equipment to buy
> for use in my home. What are your thoughts on cisco? I was looking at
> their equipment because the AP supports many different antennas, and the
> pc cards support a lot of OS's.
>
> Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cu-wireless-admin at lists.groogroo.com
> [mailto:cu-wireless-admin at lists.groogroo.com] On Behalf Of
> cu-wireless-request at lists.groogroo.com
> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 12:19 AM
> To: cu-wireless at lists.groogroo.com
> Subject: Cu-wireless digest, Vol 1 #114 - 9 msgs
>
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. organize! (Zachary C. Miller)
> 2. Re: organize! (Ralph Johnson)
> 3. Re: organize! (Sascha Meinrath)
> 4. Re: organize! (niteshad at whopper.de)
> 5. More suggestions (was re: organize) (niteshad at whopper.de)
> 6. Re: organize! (Zachary C. Miller)
> 7. Re: organize! (David Young)
> 8. good buys (Ralph Johnson)
> 9. Re: good buys (David Young)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> To: wireless at ucimc.org
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:37:46 -0500 (CDT)
> From: "Zachary C. Miller" <wolfgang at wolfgang.groogroo.com>
> Subject: [Cu-wireless] organize!
>
> We have a ton of volunteers and almost no organization. I think it is
> time to apply some structure to our meetings so we can leverage all
> our energy into getting concrete things done.
>
> I propose that we develop a schedule of _focused_ topic oriented
> meetings. We should have more than one meeting each week with the
> expectation that not everyone will come to all the meetings but people
> will come to the meetings that interest them.
>
> Proposal:
>
> 1) Seminar/Theory Meetings - Every Tuesday at Zach's
>
> I propose we meet every Tuesday from 5:30pm-7:30pm at my house for a
> different lecture/discussion each week from someone (typically from
> our group) about a different technology or other area of expertise.
>
> I would take care of organizing a speaker each week. We would combine
> the session with a dinner which would be either potluck or order out
> (e.g. pizza). 1 hour of eating, 1 hour of lecture.
>
> Example Topics:
> * Structures for a CU community wireless network
> * Basic TCP/IP and OSI network theory
> * OSPF and other TCP/IP Routing Protocols
> * NoCatAuth
> * Microwave Physics and implications for Antenna design
> * Practical strategies for Antenna mounting on houses
> * Wireless Roaming and Ad-Hoc Mesh networks
> * Embedded router hardware overview
> * Antenna design overview
> * Wireless networking in a campus setting (NCSA's wireless network)
> * NCSA's research on developing embedded wireless routers for ad hoc
> networks
> * etc. etc. etc.
>
> 2) Affinity Group Meetings
>
> We should form affinity groups to take on specific tasks and the
> affinity groups should determine their own meeting schedule. I
> propose the following groups:
>
> 1) Standard PC based wireless router development - work with the
> Dell Optiplexes that are currently sitting at my house and make a
> bootable CD-ROM based router that supports N wireless cards, N
> ethernet cards, and is as self configuring as possible. Work done
> on these platforms can be directly translated to various embedded
> platforms like PC/104 or the linux STB or even just a regular PC
> in a weatherproof container at a later date.
>
> 2) OpenAP based wireless router development - work on developing a
> linux/OpenAP based wired<->wireless router that is as self
> configuring as possible and speaks OSPF. Modify the case to allow
> the connection of an external antenna.
>
> 3) Antenna R&D - research, design, build, test, document antenna
> designs. Do the field testing of antennas.
>
> 4) Node installation and testing - Using whatever tools are
> currently available from the other groups, install antennas and
> nodes at various locations so that there is a real world testbed
> platform to play with routing protocols and to test throughput
> and antenna designs.
>
> 5) Policy group - learn about routing protocols and establish some
> policies for the wireless network. How will IP address blocks be
> allocated. What routing protocols will be used. What authentication
> schemes will be used? What traffic flow schemes will be used? What
> aspects of the policy will be mandatory and what will be suggested?
> How will channel usage be tracked/allocated? Develop a database for
> information about nodes. What kind of statistics will we generate?
> This is all network administration kind of stuff. Planning,
> tracking, coordinating.
>
> 6) Outreach group - Work on the website. Prepare snail mailings
> soliciting interest/funds in/for the projects. prepare FAQs on
> safety and other such issues for concerned members of the general
> public. Work on acquiring grants or donations of equipment.
>
> These groups need not meet every week. They can meet once a month, or
> whatever. Perhaps groups can meet on a rotating basis after/during/as
> the sunday meeting. Groups should make some effort to have their
> schedules be non-overlapping so that people can participate in more
> than one group.
>
> 3) Reportback and orientation meeting
>
> I propose that the first 30 minutes of the Sunday meetings be used
> for orientation of new members and reporting by the affinity groups
> of what they are working on and what their needs are. This part of
> the meeting should only take up the first 30 minutes or so and then
> perhaps we can have a rotating affinity group or two meet or have a
> general work party depending on the scheduled the affinity groups
> choose.
>
> Comments? Support? Lame?
>
> --
> Zachary C. Miller - @= - http://wolfgang.groogroo.com/
> IMSA 1995 - UIUC 2000 - Just Another Leftist Muppet - Ya Basta!
> Social Justice, Community, Nonviolence, Decentralization, Feminism,
> Sustainability, Responsibility, Diversity, Democracy, Ecology
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:36:15 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Ralph Johnson <johnson at cs.uiuc.edu>
> To: wireless at ucimc.org, wolfgang at wolfgang.groogroo.com
> Subject: Re: [Cu-wireless] organize!
>
> I agree that more organization is needed.
>
> I propose that we develop a schedule of _focused_ topic oriented
> meetings. We should have more than one meeting each week with
> the
> expectation that not everyone will come to all the meetings but
> people
> will come to the meetings that interest them.
>
> Or that they can come to. Early Sunday afternoon is a bad time for me.
>
> I'm interested in several topics, but I have been thinking most about
> this.
>
> 6) Outreach group - Work on the website. Prepare snail
> mailings
> soliciting interest/funds in/for the projects. prepare FAQs
> on
> safety and other such issues for concerned members of the
> general
> public. Work on acquiring grants or donations of equipment.
>
>
> You keep mentioning money. It will be hard to get money from other
> organizations unless there is an organization for them to give it to.
> Perhaps "CU Wireless" doesn't have to be an official corporation, but
> it at least needs to have some sort of charter with recongized leaders.
> Organizations that give money want to know who they are giving it to.
>
> Sometimes you can piggy back off another group. For example, perhaps
> people would donate money to the media center. I bet we could get a
> grant to give wireless at the high schools and middle schools. But
> if you want people to give money to us, not to some other organization
> that is working with us, we'll need an organization.
>
> I will add a topic.
>
> For this project to succeed in the long run, the ISPs will need to think
> of us as good guys, not competitors. We need to figure out a way for
> people using the CU wireless system to buy a small channel to the
> internet. This will not only get them on our side, but it will
> eliminate
> the need for the group to raise funds for large shared pipes to the
> internet.
>
> -Ralph
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:42:33 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Sascha Meinrath <meinrath at uiuc.edu>
> Cc: <wireless at ucimc.org>
> Subject: Re: [Cu-wireless] organize!
>
> On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Ralph Johnson wrote:
>
> > I'm interested in several topics, but I have been thinking most about
> > this.
> >
> > 6) Outreach group - Work on the website. Prepare snail
> mailings
> > soliciting interest/funds in/for the projects. prepare FAQs
> on
> > safety and other such issues for concerned members of the
> general
> > public. Work on acquiring grants or donations of equipment.
> >
> > You keep mentioning money. It will be hard to get money from other
> > organizations unless there is an organization for them to give it to.
> > Perhaps "CU Wireless" doesn't have to be an official corporation, but
> > it at least needs to have some sort of charter with recongized
> leaders.
> > Organizations that give money want to know who they are giving it to.
> >
> > Sometimes you can piggy back off another group. For example, perhaps
> > people would donate money to the media center. I bet we could get a
> > grant to give wireless at the high schools and middle schools. But
> > if you want people to give money to us, not to some other organization
> > that is working with us, we'll need an organization.
>
> Several of us are working in loose affiliation with the UCIMC -- perhaps
> we should make this a more formalized relationship since it would
> address
> this issue.
>
> --Sascha
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 00:49:54 +0200 (MEST)
> From: niteshad at whopper.de
> To: cu-wireless at lists.groogroo.com
> Subject: Re: [Cu-wireless] organize!
>
> I agree with Zach and others that we need a bit more organization in
> order
> to make better use of our resources, interact with the community (be
> they
> the general public or ISPs). However, I have enjoyed what Sascha
> called, at
> the last meeting, our anarcho-syndicalism. I think that we should
> actively
> keep in mind this structure, which mirrors the structure of the network
> we
> want to implement, when we consider how we will organize.
> I support Zach's idea of a dedicated Seminar/Theory meeting.
> However,
> rather than arbitrarily assigning a time to it, I suggest that we poll
> the
> list for candidate times. It may also be a good idea to re-evaluate the
> time
> for our Sunday work meetings. Perhaps there is another time which still
> works for the regular members, but would allow others greater
> opportunity to
> participate.
> Finally, I suggest that we maintain a running discussion of what
> the
> project or agenda we will tackle at the next General meeting, so that
> everyone
> involved will know what's to be done before they show up to the meeting.
>
> (Yes, the to-do list is forthcoming on the web page, Sascha.)
> The one problem that I forsee is in the area of incorporating
> CU-Wireless
> for the purposes of receiving donations of either money or hardware.
> Such
> incorporation, even as a 503(c) non-profit, would impose a structure on
> the
> group that would be anti-thetical to our current anarcho-syndicalist
> model.
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> regards,
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 01:07:10 +0200 (MEST)
> From: niteshad at whopper.de
> To: cu-wireless at lists.groogroo.com
> Subject: [Cu-wireless] More suggestions (was re: organize)
>
> Regarding the Seminar/Theory meetings, perhaps it would be a good idea
> to
> encourage the speakers to submit a version of their talk suitable for
> posting
> on our website. This way, we will build a base of knowledge which we
> (and
> other wireless groups) can access on a more permanent basis. The only
> bugbear is the usual one of how to represent equations in HTML...unless
> MathML
> has really come a long way.
> Also, I advocate that rather than the typical lecture model, we
> try to
> implement a more active learning model. Educational reseach has shown
> that
> active learning models, such as group work or discussion result in
> better
> comprehension and knowledge retention by the students. Plus, it's just
> plain
> more fun!
>
> regards,
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Subject: Re: [Cu-wireless] organize!
> To: niteshad at whopper.de
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:28:44 -0500 (CDT)
> Cc: cu-wireless at lists.groogroo.com
> From: "Zachary C. Miller" <wolfgang at wolfgang.groogroo.com>
>
> > However, I have enjoyed what Sascha called, at the last meeting, our
> > anarcho-syndicalism.
>
> Believe me, I'm fully dedicated to maintaining such a model. I'm just
> trying to encourage the organization of the syndicalist part of that
> equation by instigating the formation of affinity groups around
> specific work tasks.
>
> I offered a specific time to the Seminar/Theory section because I was
> volunteering to host and organize it. If the time/plan I suggested
> isn't convenient for others I encourage them to pose alternate
> plans. I think it is important to establish stable times for various
> purposes.
>
> The model I proposed with the affinity groups was just a suggestion
> based on work I see being done by various people. Affinity groups are
> just groups of people who want to accomplish the same goals
> together. I think it is important for a large monolithic group like
> ours to split into smaller working groups to get things done. This
> isn't non-anarchic, this is syndicalist.
>
> I'm trying to encourage discussion on how we might acheive the work
> goals we want to achieve. Lets enumerate those goals and find out who
> is interested in doing what kind of work and how much time people are
> willing to commit and then lets have some meetings. Maybe some of the
> affinity group formation and meeting time setting will happen at a
> sunday meeting or offline but lets keep everyone aware of it.
>
> What I'd like to see as a result of my email is lots of people chiming
> in about what they are interested in working on so they can find each
> other and work together outside of the monolithic sunday meetings and
> with some openness to the general wireless group.
>
> > The one problem that I forsee is in the area of incorporating
> > CU-Wireless for the purposes of receiving donations of either money
> > or hardware. Such incorporation, even as a 503(c) non-profit, would
> > impose a structure on the group that would be anti-thetical to our
> > current anarcho-syndicalist model.
>
> Independent incorporation or affiliation with the IMC (itself
> organized around participatory consensus based focus groups) would not
> neccessarily impose structure on the entire project as long as we
> agree to incorporate or affiliate on terms that are compatible with
> our existing model. Anarcho-syndicalism doesn't mean unstructured or
> unorganized, it just means no heirarchy or implicit power.
>
> I don't see any reason to worry about this until some actual
> fundraising effort is underway and I don't see us doing any actual
> fundraising for several months (until we have some working testbed
> nodes up and running). So lets not worry about this question too much
> right now, lets focus on organizing ourselves to get vital R&D work
> done so we can build a wireless network.
>
> --
> Zachary C. Miller - @= - http://wolfgang.groogroo.com/
> IMSA 1995 - UIUC 2000 - Just Another Leftist Muppet - Ya Basta!
> Social Justice, Community, Nonviolence, Decentralization, Feminism,
> Sustainability, Responsibility, Diversity, Democracy, Ecology
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:14:26 -0500
> From: David Young <dyoung at onthejob.net>
> To: wireless at ucimc.org
> Subject: Re: [Cu-wireless] organize!
> Reply-To: dyoung at pobox.com
>
>
> I like your proposal. I suggest two changes:
>
> New participants' introduction/orientation occurs at the Tuesday
> seminar, which becomes our general meeting. Affinity groups may be
> give updates at that meeting.
>
> No general meeting Sunday. Let an affinity group use Sunday.
>
> I would really like to hear what is going on with wireless in NCSA.
>
> Also, if Mark who teaches at Parkland will teach about routing, that
> would be great.
>
> I would be pleased to lead a session where a Pringles can antenna
> and the 5dBi omni antenna are built. Also, I can talk about NetBSD.
> And very shortly I may be an expert on the 802.11 standard, whether I
> want to be or not....
>
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 01:37:46PM -0500, Zachary C. Miller wrote:
> > We have a ton of volunteers and almost no organization. I think it is
> > time to apply some structure to our meetings so we can leverage all
> > our energy into getting concrete things done.
> >
> > I propose that we develop a schedule of _focused_ topic oriented
> > meetings. We should have more than one meeting each week with the
> > expectation that not everyone will come to all the meetings but people
> > will come to the meetings that interest them.
> >
> > Proposal:
> >
> > 1) Seminar/Theory Meetings - Every Tuesday at Zach's
> >
> > I propose we meet every Tuesday from 5:30pm-7:30pm at my house for a
> > different lecture/discussion each week from someone (typically from
> > our group) about a different technology or other area of expertise.
> >
> > I would take care of organizing a speaker each week. We would
> combine
> > the session with a dinner which would be either potluck or order out
> > (e.g. pizza). 1 hour of eating, 1 hour of lecture.
> >
> > Example Topics:
> > * Structures for a CU community wireless network
> > * Basic TCP/IP and OSI network theory
> > * OSPF and other TCP/IP Routing Protocols
> > * NoCatAuth
> > * Microwave Physics and implications for Antenna design
> > * Practical strategies for Antenna mounting on houses
> > * Wireless Roaming and Ad-Hoc Mesh networks
> > * Embedded router hardware overview
> > * Antenna design overview
> > * Wireless networking in a campus setting (NCSA's wireless network)
> > * NCSA's research on developing embedded wireless routers for ad hoc
> networks
> > * etc. etc. etc.
> >
> > 2) Affinity Group Meetings
> >
> > We should form affinity groups to take on specific tasks and the
> > affinity groups should determine their own meeting schedule. I
> > propose the following groups:
> >
> > 1) Standard PC based wireless router development - work with the
> > Dell Optiplexes that are currently sitting at my house and make a
> > bootable CD-ROM based router that supports N wireless cards, N
> > ethernet cards, and is as self configuring as possible. Work done
> > on these platforms can be directly translated to various embedded
> > platforms like PC/104 or the linux STB or even just a regular PC
> > in a weatherproof container at a later date.
> >
> > 2) OpenAP based wireless router development - work on developing a
> > linux/OpenAP based wired<->wireless router that is as self
> > configuring as possible and speaks OSPF. Modify the case to allow
> > the connection of an external antenna.
> >
> > 3) Antenna R&D - research, design, build, test, document antenna
> > designs. Do the field testing of antennas.
> >
> > 4) Node installation and testing - Using whatever tools are
> > currently available from the other groups, install antennas and
> > nodes at various locations so that there is a real world testbed
> > platform to play with routing protocols and to test throughput
> > and antenna designs.
> >
> > 5) Policy group - learn about routing protocols and establish some
> > policies for the wireless network. How will IP address blocks be
> > allocated. What routing protocols will be used. What
> authentication
> > schemes will be used? What traffic flow schemes will be used?
> What
> > aspects of the policy will be mandatory and what will be
> suggested?
> > How will channel usage be tracked/allocated? Develop a database
> for
> > information about nodes. What kind of statistics will we
> generate?
> > This is all network administration kind of stuff. Planning,
> > tracking, coordinating.
> >
> > 6) Outreach group - Work on the website. Prepare snail mailings
> > soliciting interest/funds in/for the projects. prepare FAQs on
> > safety and other such issues for concerned members of the general
> > public. Work on acquiring grants or donations of equipment.
> >
> > These groups need not meet every week. They can meet once a month,
> or
> > whatever. Perhaps groups can meet on a rotating basis
> after/during/as
> > the sunday meeting. Groups should make some effort to have their
> > schedules be non-overlapping so that people can participate in more
> > than one group.
> >
> > 3) Reportback and orientation meeting
> >
> > I propose that the first 30 minutes of the Sunday meetings be used
> > for orientation of new members and reporting by the affinity groups
> > of what they are working on and what their needs are. This part of
> > the meeting should only take up the first 30 minutes or so and then
> > perhaps we can have a rotating affinity group or two meet or have a
> > general work party depending on the scheduled the affinity groups
> > choose.
> >
> > Comments? Support? Lame?
> >
> > --
> > Zachary C. Miller - @= - http://wolfgang.groogroo.com/
> > IMSA 1995 - UIUC 2000 - Just Another Leftist Muppet - Ya Basta!
> > Social Justice, Community, Nonviolence, Decentralization, Feminism,
> > Sustainability, Responsibility, Diversity, Democracy, Ecology
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cu-wireless mailing list
> > Cu-wireless at lists.groogroo.com
> > http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/cu-wireless
>
> --
> David Young OJC Engineering from the Right Brain
> dyoung at onthejob.net Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:11:31 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Ralph Johnson <johnson at cs.uiuc.edu>
> To: wireless at ucimc.org
> Subject: [Cu-wireless] good buys
>
> TigerDirect has some $50 wireless PCMCIA cards.
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_slc.asp?Id=350
> 2
> Are any of these particularly good deals?
>
> http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/HotNews is a list of good
> buys that people have discovered.
>
> http://www.superpass.com/price.html has lots of antennas that are
> reasonably priced, including an 8dBi omni for $59.50 and a 13dBi
> directional panel for $35.
>
> -Ralph
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 00:18:23 -0500
> From: David Young <dyoung at onthejob.net>
> To: cu-wireless at ucimc.org
> Subject: Re: [Cu-wireless] good buys
> Reply-To: dyoung at pobox.com
>
>
> I don't think any Linux/*BSD driver supports Proxim RangeLan.
>
> The Lucent card will accept an external antenna through a fragile,
> expensive connector. The internal antenna will always leak some
> radiation. Lucent cards do not have a Prism chipset.
>
> I know nothing about the IBM card, but it is likely to have a Prism
> chipset. Prism chipsets support HostAP mode. I don't know if IBM's card
> accepts an external antenna.
>
> The $80 SMC 2652W wireless access point can be flashed with Linux OpenAP
> software.
>
> The antennas are worth considering. Do you think their operating
> temperatures are given in Fahrenheit or Celsius?
>
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 11:11:31PM -0500, Ralph Johnson wrote:
> > TigerDirect has some $50 wireless PCMCIA cards.
> >
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_slc.asp?Id=350
> 2
> > Are any of these particularly good deals?
> >
> > http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/HotNews is a list of good
> > buys that people have discovered.
> >
> > http://www.superpass.com/price.html has lots of antennas that are
> > reasonably priced, including an 8dBi omni for $59.50 and a 13dBi
> > directional panel for $35.
> >
> > -Ralph
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cu-wireless mailing list
> > Cu-wireless at lists.groogroo.com
> > http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/cu-wireless
>
> --
> David Young OJC Engineering from the Right Brain
> dyoung at onthejob.net Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cu-wireless mailing list
> Cu-wireless at lists.groogroo.com
> http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/cu-wireless
>
>
> End of Cu-wireless Digest
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cu-wireless mailing list
> Cu-wireless at lists.groogroo.com
> http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/cu-wireless
--
David Young OJC Engineering from the Right Brain
dyoung at onthejob.net Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933
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