[UCIMC-Tech] Re: IMC membership - paypal follow-up
Barry Isralewitz
barryi at ks.uiuc.edu
Mon Jun 30 05:28:15 CDT 2008
Hello,
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It has recently come to my attention that when people become members of the
> > IMC via the membership page on the IMC site, other than the generic paypal
> > receipt, they are not receiving any follow up acknowledgment.
> >
> > Does anyone know if paypal allows us to customize our response? Is there
> > any simple way that new memberships and renewals via paypal can trigger an
> > automated email?
There is supposed to be one but it is broken; Paypal says they are fixing it.
About 80% of the function Jay wants is explictly offered by Paypal -- "Email
Notices" of subscription transactions are sent to the payee (UCIMC), even
helpfully parceled out to the specified "businesses" (email addresses specified
in the Subscribe buttons and registered with main account, e.g. Bike Project,
Books to Prisoners, etc) -- but the feature does not work. Paypal is aware of
their internal software problem, and has been claiming a fix is on the way for
the past six months.
If "Email Notices" did work, one could very simply set up a the last 20% of
the job of constructing a safe, secure, robust "Thank You" system (which could
also auto-add member info to a database). Set a mail account to: receive the
Email Notice generated immediately after Subscription activity, parse out the
relevant fields, send the "Thank You", then make the database addition. (A
procmail recipe on any Unix shell account would do this nicely.) I've been
hoping to use this service for Bike Project memberships, plus offer it up to
other UCIMC groups when it was working. Seemed like a good strategy, since
based on a documented Paypal feature. I have spent 20+ hours in contact with
Paypal about this since Sept 2007; no fix yet, but a recent developement:
Paypal frontline tech support at long-last knows this feature is broken. As
they have since I succeeded in opening the internal trouble ticket in Dec.
2007, Paypal still claims a fix is coming from their Engineering Department.
Unfortunately, from the sort of understanding and poor follow-up I've seen from
Paypal, I am not confident that this is coming anytime soon, if ever.
There are other approaches:
-- run scripts to generate "Thank You: after successful Paypal-site
transaction via 'return to merchant' button which appears when transaction is completed. Can use set Paypal to POST the successful transaction data to chambana.net server. Unfortunately, most users ignore this button. Perhaps an interstital pre-Paypal reminder to hit the the 'return to merchant' button would help...
--collect the non-credit card info on chambana.net server page forms,
pre-populate fields for Paypal sub. request, and send "Thank You" when the
transaction is sent on to 'success'.
-- Use server methods to trigger "Thank You" generation. Easiest would be
to implement Instant Payment Notification. Or gather data on own website, use
Paypal SOAP API directly. I've been avoiding such server interactions, both
requires additional reliable features on chamabana.net servers, would be much
harder to find someone to maintain/alter/repair this after I leave, and might
be harder for other IMC groups to use than email-based solution.
-- periodically download transactions spreadsheet, and do automated search for relevant activities.
-- stop using Paypal, do web donations through a more competent company.
(Even if higher price/percentage, worth it in overral receipts to get extra
contacts -> improve donor relations -> increase donations).
Details on Paypal Subscription Email Notices
---
Here's the currently-relevant text from Paypal's latest documentation. If
you are familiar with Paypal documentation, note that the _Recurring Payments
Guide_ has recently been obseleted, the info. it contained is now found in the
_Website Payments Standard Integration Guide_.
Below is the relevant passage on Subscription Email Notices.
========
From the Paypal _Website Payments Standard Integration Guide_
"June 2008" edition
Page 72
====
Using Email Notices to Track Subscription Transactions
PayPal sends you email notices when:
* People sign up for new subscriptions.
* Subscription payments are made.
* Subscriptions end or are canceled.
Generally, PayPal sends email notices to the primary email address of your
account. PayPal can send email notices to an alternate email address, such as
to someone in your organization who handles accounting or manages access to
members-only content. Add the additional email address to your account profile.
Then, use that email address as the value for the business
========
I've had Bike Project subscriptions set to generate Email Notices to
thebikeproject at gmail.org from the very start, but it has never worked. An
internal Paypal user field "User Receives Subscription Payment Notification
Emails" must be set "True", but the user web GUI does not offer this option,
and top level Paypal tech support workers have been repeatedly shocked to find
that _they_, working on Paypal internal settings, cannot manually set the
field.
Amazingly, there has been no bug report number or similar tracking information
available for this known bug. The best they can do, they told me, is promise to
contact me about this when the issue is solved. I cannot call Paypal and say
"It has been 6 months since bug XXXXXXX has been filed, what is the progress?"
More information on this issue available from me for those interested.
Cheers,
Barry
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 01:30:59PM -0500, Danielle Chynoweth wrote:
> Hi Jay,
> We have, Nicole Pion, a full time support person coming on to analyze and
> improve our membership, thanking, and outreach systems. She will be meeting
> with each working group to hear about needs in this regard. When you meet
> with her, give her details about what kind of thanking, membership alters,
> etc you want to see.
>
> As for what is possible, Paypal should be sending a confirmation of payment
> for membership already. I would like to see us track ALL of our contacts
> with CiviCRM connected to both Drupal and Paypal. CiviCRM is a open source
> Constituent Relationship Manager (made famous by Howard Dean) and can manage
> memberships and send reminders. We have in house knowledge about installing
> and maintaining it.
>
> - Danielle
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It has recently come to my attention that when people become members of the
> > IMC via the membership page on the IMC site, other than the generic paypal
> > receipt, they are not receiving any follow up acknowledgment.
> >
> > Does anyone know if paypal allows us to customize our response? Is there
> > any simple way that new memberships and renewals via paypal can trigger an
> > automated email?
> >
> > It seems like we're really missing an opportunity to greet new members,
> > extend an invitation to get involved with our projects and plant the seed
> > that we hope they will renew their membership annually (which as far as I
> > can tell is up to each member to keep track of currently). As you can see
> > below, a new member from books to prisoners was distraught after her
> > experience of joining the IMC using paypal.
> >
> > While the business of sending reminders for membership renewals is a
> > different can of worms, it seems like a simple follow up message for new &
> > renewing members would be a relatively simple matter. If anyone knows how
> > to set this up, I would be happy to write / propose some copy for such a
> > message.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jay Schubert
> > (217) 721-7419
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: ann h. <annhett at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:25 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: [Btp-jail-libraries] Fwd: Friday afternoon at the Main
> > Jail
> > To: Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> > i became a member in may but never received any sort of confirmation,other
> > than from paypal. Should I have received something?
> >
> > thanks,
> > ann
> >
> > --- On *Sun, 6/29/08, Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>* wrote:
> >
> > From: Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Fwd: [Btp-jail-libraries] Fwd: Friday afternoon at the Main Jail
> > To: "BTP Libraries" <btp-jail-libraries at lists.chambana.net>
> > Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 11:18 AM
> >
> >
> > re: IMC keys.
> >
> > I agree that it would be nice if more of our volunteers had access to the
> > IMC building and would like to take this opportunity to appeal to jail
> > librarians who do not have keys to the building to consider becoming a
> > member of the Independent Media Center.
> >
> > If you have been volunteering with books to prisoners for a while now and
> > enjoy doing it, please consider becoming a member and supporting the parent
> > organization that makes it possible for books to prisoners to operate the
> > way we do. The IMC relies on membership dues to help pay for the mortgage
> > on our building, utilities and other costs not covered by the rent we
> > collect.
> >
> > Membership costs as little as $25 a year. Once you are a member you are
> > entitled to a building key in exchange for a nominal deposit.
> >
> > - Books to Prisoners needs more volunteers with keys to the building
> > - The IMC would not exist without the financial support of its members
> > - Have you ever thought that it would be convenient to have a key / 24 hour
> > access to the building?
> > - Have you been volunteering with BTP and like what you see?
> > *
> > Please consider joining the IMC*
> >
> > Here is a link to more information about becoming a member:
> > http://www.ucimc.org/info/membership
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jay
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Barbara kessel <barkes at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Barbara kessel <barkes at gmail.com>
> >> Date: Jun 8, 2008 11:39 PM
> >> Subject: Fwd: Friday afternoon at the Main Jail
> >> To: Josh Seiter <jseiter2 at uiuc.edu>, Kristin Palmer <palmerk3 at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: Jail library <btp-jail-libraries at books2prisoners.org>
> >>
> >> Tracy Dace and I met with 65 prisoners. The air conditioning had gone out
> >> in the men's cells.The library was OK.
> >> Neither Kristin nor Josh have a key to the Books to Prisoners room and
> >> access to the jail box. I am going to go and meet one of them around 5:45.
> >> If it is Josh with a car, he can take the box and we can figure out later
> >> how and when to get it back. If it is Kristin on her bicycle, then I can
> >> give her the books and magazines in a bag that she can carry.
> >>
> >> I have a proposal to the keystaff that we purchase 2 or 3 keys for our
> >> Monday nighters so that the jail inmates don't have to always be "sad" as
> >> Frances Jacobson reports when there is no jail box with their long-awaited
> >> orders. The Friday afternoon people all know we will be there on Monday
> >> night and they are eager.
> >>
> >> Here were the Friday orders:
> >> 1-2. Deborah Kissel and Adrien White want word search books. These have to
> >> be bought at the grocery store.
> >> Deborah is still hpoing for one of two Dave Pelzer books - Help Yourself
> >> and The Privilege of Youth.
> >>
> >> 3. Valerie Gordon wants the little booklets Daily Bread.
> >>
> >> 4. Marcus Williams wants True to the Game 2, which is checked out to a
> >> woman prisoner named Chantrel (or something similar) Brown, who promises to
> >> bring it back rather than give it to her cell mate. This idea is tough sell,
> >> but if the books comes in from Ms. Brown, please put it in the box until Mr.
> >> Williams comes in.
> >> Jay had an idea about checking out special books such as Goines. I want
> >> to hear it. (again).
> >>
> >> 5. Charles Brown wants, has wanted, is wanting, will want Nikki Turner or
> >> Dutch 2. The latter is by Teri Woods, the author of True to the Game.
> >>
> >> 6. Cody Decker wants anything by Zane except for Breaking the Cycle. I put
> >> something by Zane in the box with his name on it.
> >>
> >> 7. William Kelly wants a Koran. We were completely out of them, and he
> >> wanted several to be there for others. I put three in the box and told Naeem
> >> Sheikh about this as people from the Mosque occasionally visit the jail and
> >> bring such things. Johnnie Ray
> >> Priester asked before for something on Hadith. Said he already had his
> >> own Koran. On Friday he was in Seg and they would not let him come. I had
> >> the slim book, Understanding Islam and gave it to the guard for him. They
> >> will usually do that for prisoners. The Mosque has also been informed about
> >> this request as we will not have that.
> >>
> >> 8. One request for the small Alcoholics Anonymous blue backed book. Jay
> >> tells me that we don't supply them, but that the jail does.
> >>
> >> 9. Vernon Jones has been reading our poetry collection most aggressively
> >> but has not found anything he likes yet. He wants some poetry that is
> >> "realistic." Another guy wanted love poetry that rhymed and I was able to
> >> help him with a lot of searching. I am working on something for Vernon
> >> through networking and inquiry. Hoping to have something by Monday night.
> >> Our poetry collection has not been hitting the spot for some time. Does
> >> anyone out there have a good idea for something that African-American men
> >> would like?
> >>
> >> Barbara Kessel
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Btp-jail-libraries mailing list
> >> Btp-jail-libraries at lists.chambana.net
> >> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/btp-jail-libraries
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Btp-jail-libraries mailing list
> > Btp-jail-libraries at lists.chambana.net
> > http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/btp-jail-libraries
> >
> >
> >
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--
Barry Isralewitz, Ph. D. Theoretical and Computational Biophysics Group, UIUC
Beckman 3043 Office Phone: (217) 244-1612 Home Phone: (217) 337-6364
email: barryi at ks.uiuc.edu http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~barryi
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