[UCIMC-Tech] Re: IMC membership - paypal follow-up

Danielle Chynoweth chyn at ojctech.com
Mon Jun 30 15:38:31 CDT 2008 

By setting up CiviCRM to work off of our Drupal site, CiviCRM can send auto
thank yous.  We need to do this anyway to collect better info on everyone
who signs up as a member, donates, or asks that we stay on touch with them
about X, Y, and Z group.    Now we just have to sweet talk Dan or someone
from tech to plug it in :)

- Danielle


On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 5:28 AM, Barry Isralewitz <barryi at ks.uiuc.edu>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It has recently come to my attention that when people become members of
> the
> > > IMC via the membership page on the IMC site, other than the generic
> paypal
> > > receipt, they are not receiving any follow up acknowledgment.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know if paypal allows us to customize our response?  Is
> there
> > > any simple way that new memberships and renewals via paypal can trigger
> an
> > > automated email?
>
>   There is supposed to be one but it is broken; Paypal says they are fixing
> it.
>
>  About 80% of the function Jay wants is explictly offered by Paypal --
> "Email
> Notices" of subscription transactions are sent to the payee (UCIMC), even
> helpfully parceled out to the specified "businesses" (email addresses
> specified
> in the Subscribe buttons and registered with main account, e.g. Bike
> Project,
> Books to Prisoners, etc) -- but the feature does not work.  Paypal is aware
> of
> their internal software problem, and has been claiming a fix is on the way
> for
> the past six months.
>
>  If "Email Notices" did work, one could very simply set up a the last 20%
> of
> the job of constructing a safe, secure, robust  "Thank You" system (which
> could
> also auto-add member info to a database).  Set a mail account to: receive
> the
> Email Notice generated immediately after Subscription activity, parse out
> the
> relevant fields, send the "Thank You", then make the database addition.  (A
> procmail recipe on any Unix shell account would do this nicely.) I've been
> hoping to use this service for Bike Project memberships, plus offer it up
> to
> other UCIMC groups when it was working.  Seemed like a good strategy, since
> based on a documented Paypal feature.  I have spent 20+  hours in contact
> with
> Paypal about this since Sept 2007; no fix yet, but a recent developement:
> Paypal frontline tech support at long-last knows this feature is broken.
>  As
> they have since I succeeded in opening the internal trouble ticket in Dec.
> 2007, Paypal still claims a fix is coming from their Engineering
> Department.
> Unfortunately, from the sort of understanding and poor follow-up I've seen
> from
> Paypal, I am not confident that this is coming anytime soon, if ever.
>
>
>  There are other approaches:
>     -- run scripts to generate "Thank You: after successful Paypal-site
> transaction via 'return to merchant' button which appears when transaction
> is completed.  Can use set Paypal to POST the successful transaction data to
> chambana.net server.  Unfortunately, most users ignore this button.
>  Perhaps an interstital pre-Paypal reminder to hit the the 'return to
> merchant' button would help...
>     --collect the non-credit card info on chambana.net server page forms,
> pre-populate fields for Paypal sub. request, and send "Thank You" when the
> transaction is sent on to 'success'.
>     -- Use server methods to trigger "Thank You" generation.  Easiest would
> be
> to implement Instant Payment Notification. Or gather data on own website,
> use
> Paypal SOAP API directly.  I've been avoiding such server interactions,
> both
> requires additional reliable features on chamabana.net servers, would be
> much
> harder to find someone to maintain/alter/repair this after I leave, and
> might
> be harder for other IMC groups to use than email-based solution.
>     -- periodically download transactions spreadsheet, and do automated
> search for relevant activities.
>    -- stop using Paypal, do web donations through a more competent company.
> (Even if higher price/percentage, worth it in overral receipts to get extra
> contacts -> improve donor relations -> increase donations).
>
>
>  Details on Paypal Subscription Email Notices
> ---
>  Here's the currently-relevant text from Paypal's latest documentation.  If
> you are familiar with Paypal documentation, note that the _Recurring
> Payments
> Guide_ has recently been obseleted, the info. it contained is now found in
> the
> _Website Payments Standard Integration Guide_.
>  Below is the relevant passage on Subscription Email Notices.
> ========
>  From the Paypal _Website Payments Standard Integration Guide_
> "June 2008" edition
> Page 72
> ====
> Using Email Notices to Track Subscription Transactions
> PayPal sends you email notices when:
>  * People sign up for new subscriptions.
>  * Subscription payments are made.
>  * Subscriptions end or are canceled.
> Generally, PayPal sends email notices to the primary email address of your
> account.  PayPal can send email notices to an alternate email address, such
> as
> to someone in your organization who handles accounting or manages access to
> members-only content. Add the additional email address to your account
> profile.
> Then, use that email address as the value for the business
> ========
>
> I've had Bike Project subscriptions set to generate Email Notices to
> thebikeproject at gmail.org from the very start, but it has never worked.  An
> internal Paypal  user field "User Receives Subscription Payment
> Notification
> Emails" must be set "True", but the user web GUI does not offer this
> option,
> and top level Paypal tech support workers have been repeatedly shocked to
> find
> that _they_, working on Paypal internal settings, cannot manually set the
> field.
>
> Amazingly, there has been no bug report number or similar tracking
> information
> available for this known bug. The best they can do, they told me, is
> promise to
> contact me about this when the issue is solved.  I cannot call Paypal and
> say
> "It has been 6 months since bug XXXXXXX has been filed, what is the
> progress?"
> More information on this issue available from me for those interested.
>
>
>
>            Cheers,
>
>            Barry
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 01:30:59PM -0500, Danielle Chynoweth wrote:
> > Hi Jay,
> > We have, Nicole Pion, a full time support person coming on to analyze and
> > improve our membership, thanking, and outreach systems.  She will be
> meeting
> > with each working group to hear about needs in this regard.  When you
> meet
> > with her, give her details about what kind of thanking, membership
> alters,
> > etc you want to see.
> >
> > As for what is possible, Paypal should be sending a confirmation of
> payment
> > for membership already.  I would like to see us track ALL of our contacts
> > with CiviCRM connected to both Drupal and Paypal.  CiviCRM is a open
> source
> > Constituent Relationship Manager (made famous by Howard Dean) and can
> manage
> > memberships and send reminders.  We have in house knowledge about
> installing
> > and maintaining it.
> >
> > - Danielle
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It has recently come to my attention that when people become members of
> the
> > > IMC via the membership page on the IMC site, other than the generic
> paypal
> > > receipt, they are not receiving any follow up acknowledgment.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know if paypal allows us to customize our response?  Is
> there
> > > any simple way that new memberships and renewals via paypal can trigger
> an
> > > automated email?
> > >
> > > It seems like we're really missing an opportunity to greet new members,
> > > extend an invitation to get involved with our projects and plant the
> seed
> > > that we hope they will renew their membership annually (which as far as
> I
> > > can tell is up to each member to keep track of currently).  As you can
> see
> > > below, a new member from books to prisoners was distraught after her
> > > experience of joining the IMC using paypal.
> > >
> > > While the business of sending reminders for membership renewals is a
> > > different can of worms, it seems like a simple follow up message for
> new &
> > > renewing members would be a relatively simple matter.  If anyone knows
> how
> > > to set this up, I would be happy to write / propose some copy for such
> a
> > > message.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jay Schubert
> > > (217) 721-7419
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: ann h. <annhett at yahoo.com>
> > > Date: Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:25 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Fwd: [Btp-jail-libraries] Fwd: Friday afternoon at the
> Main
> > > Jail
> > > To: Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >  i became a member in may but never received any sort of
> confirmation,other
> > > than from paypal.  Should I have received something?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > ann
> > >
> > > --- On *Sun, 6/29/08, Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>* wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Jay Schubert <jay.schubert at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Fwd: [Btp-jail-libraries] Fwd: Friday afternoon at the Main
> Jail
> > > To: "BTP Libraries" <btp-jail-libraries at lists.chambana.net>
> > > Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 11:18 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > re: IMC keys.
> > >
> > > I agree that it would be nice if more of our volunteers had access to
> the
> > > IMC building and would like to take this opportunity to appeal to jail
> > > librarians who do not have keys to the building to consider becoming a
> > > member of the Independent Media Center.
> > >
> > > If you have been volunteering with books to prisoners for a while now
> and
> > > enjoy doing it, please consider becoming a member and supporting the
> parent
> > > organization that makes it possible for books to prisoners to operate
> the
> > > way we do.  The IMC relies on membership dues to help pay for the
> mortgage
> > > on our building, utilities and other costs not covered by the rent we
> > > collect.
> > >
> > > Membership costs as little as $25 a year.  Once you are a member you
> are
> > > entitled to a building key in exchange for a nominal deposit.
> > >
> > > - Books to Prisoners needs more volunteers with keys to the building
> > > - The IMC would not exist without the financial support of its members
> > > - Have you ever thought that it would be convenient to have a key / 24
> hour
> > > access to the building?
> > > - Have you been volunteering with BTP and like what you see?
> > > *
> > > Please consider joining the IMC*
> > >
> > > Here is a link to more information about becoming a member:
> > > http://www.ucimc.org/info/membership
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jay
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Barbara kessel <barkes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > >> From: Barbara kessel <barkes at gmail.com>
> > >> Date: Jun 8, 2008 11:39 PM
> > >> Subject: Fwd: Friday afternoon at the Main Jail
> > >> To: Josh Seiter <jseiter2 at uiuc.edu>, Kristin Palmer <
> palmerk3 at gmail.com>
> > >> Cc: Jail library <btp-jail-libraries at books2prisoners.org>
> > >>
> > >> Tracy Dace and I met with 65 prisoners. The air conditioning had gone
> out
> > >> in the men's cells.The library was OK.
> > >> Neither Kristin nor Josh have a key to the Books to Prisoners room and
> > >> access to the jail box.  I am going to go and meet one of them around
>  5:45.
> > >> If it is Josh with a car, he can take the box and we can figure out
> later
> > >> how and when to get it back. If it is Kristin on her bicycle, then I
> can
> > >> give her the books and magazines in a bag that she can carry.
> > >>
> > >> I have a proposal to the keystaff that we purchase 2 or 3 keys for our
> > >> Monday nighters so that the jail inmates don't have to always be "sad"
> as
> > >> Frances Jacobson reports when there is no jail box with their
> long-awaited
> > >> orders. The Friday afternoon people all know we will be there on
> Monday
> > >> night and they are eager.
> > >>
> > >> Here were the Friday orders:
> > >> 1-2. Deborah Kissel and Adrien White want word search books. These
> have to
> > >> be bought at the grocery store.
> > >> Deborah is still hpoing for one of two Dave Pelzer books - Help
> Yourself
> > >> and The Privilege of Youth.
> > >>
> > >> 3. Valerie Gordon wants the little booklets Daily Bread.
> > >>
> > >> 4. Marcus Williams wants True to the Game 2, which is checked out to a
> > >> woman prisoner named Chantrel (or something similar) Brown, who
> promises to
> > >> bring it back rather than give it to her cell mate. This idea is tough
> sell,
> > >> but if the books comes in from Ms. Brown, please put it in the box
> until Mr.
> > >> Williams comes in.
> > >> Jay had an idea about checking out special books such as Goines.  I
> want
> > >> to hear it. (again).
> > >>
> > >> 5. Charles Brown wants, has wanted, is wanting, will want Nikki Turner
> or
> > >> Dutch 2. The latter is by Teri Woods, the author of True to the Game.
> > >>
> > >> 6. Cody Decker wants anything by Zane except for Breaking the Cycle. I
> put
> > >> something by Zane in the box with his name on it.
> > >>
> > >> 7. William Kelly wants a Koran. We were completely out of them, and he
> > >> wanted several to be there for others. I put three in the box and told
> Naeem
> > >> Sheikh about this as  people from the Mosque occasionally visit the
> jail and
> > >> bring such things. Johnnie Ray
> > >>  Priester asked before for something on Hadith. Said he already had
> his
> > >> own Koran. On Friday he was in Seg and they would not let him come. I
> had
> > >> the slim book, Understanding Islam and  gave it to the guard for him.
>  They
> > >> will usually do that for prisoners. The Mosque has also been informed
> about
> > >> this request as we will not have that.
> > >>
> > >> 8. One request for the small Alcoholics Anonymous blue backed book.
> Jay
> > >> tells me that we don't supply them, but that the jail does.
> > >>
> > >> 9. Vernon Jones has been reading our poetry collection most
> aggressively
> > >> but has not found anything he likes yet. He wants some poetry that is
> > >> "realistic." Another guy wanted love poetry that rhymed and I was able
> to
> > >> help him with a lot of searching. I am working on something for Vernon
> > >> through networking and inquiry. Hoping to have something by Monday
> night.
> > >> Our poetry collection has not been hitting the spot for some time.
> Does
> > >> anyone out there have a good idea for something that African-American
> men
> > >> would like?
> > >>
> > >> Barbara Kessel
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Btp-jail-libraries mailing list
> > >> Btp-jail-libraries at lists.chambana.net
> > >> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/btp-jail-libraries
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Btp-jail-libraries mailing list
> > > Btp-jail-libraries at lists.chambana.net
> > > http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/btp-jail-libraries
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > IMC-Tech mailing list
> > IMC-Tech at lists.ucimc.org
> > http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/imc-tech
>
>
> --
> Barry Isralewitz, Ph. D.   Theoretical and Computational Biophysics Group,
> UIUC
> Beckman 3043    Office Phone: (217) 244-1612   Home Phone: (217) 337-6364
> email: barryi at ks.uiuc.edu      http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~barryi<http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/%7Ebarryi>
>
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