[UCIMC-Tech] Mailman 2.1.18? - DMARC: Yahoo vs internet mailing lists

Stuart Levy stuartnlevy at gmail.com
Fri May 9 09:08:53 EDT 2014


That's a different problem.   This change solves yahoo's problem, but 
hotmail's problem is that they think *anything* coming from the IMC mail 
server is spam, regardless of content.

On 5/9/14 8:03 AM, Jay Schubert wrote:
> ok.  Since making this setting (mung) and manually re-adding some 
> hotmail users then posting to the list, I see that hotmail address are 
> still bouncing and their bounce scores are incrementing, suggesting 
> that this didn't solve the problem.
>
> thanks,
> Jay
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Josh King <jking at chambana.net 
> <mailto:jking at chambana.net>> wrote:
>
>     To be honest, I'm not entirely clear how wrap message works. On
>     further
>     inspection, I think what they're talking about with DKIM is just that
>     using 'Mung From' makes DKIM possible for lists, whereas before it
>     really wasn't. DKIM associates a cryptographic key with a particular
>     domain, but given that mailinglists typically have the 'From'
>     address be
>     that of the original sender of the message, the DKIM key is mismatched
>     and so Mailman usually strips out DKIM headers. Since this function
>     changes the 'From' address to be the list and the 'Reply-to' to be the
>     original sender, DKIM should work where it usually wouldn't. But
>     despite
>     their confusing wording, I don't think it's _necessary_. I would
>     probably try 'Mung from' first.
>
>     On 05/08/2014 07:30 AM, Jay Schubert wrote:
>     > thanks.  So until that time, do you recommend *Mung From* or *Wrap
>     > Message* setting for/from_is_list/?
>     >
>     > - Jay
>     >
>     >
>     > On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Josh King <jking at chambana.net
>     <mailto:jking at chambana.net>
>     > <mailto:jking at chambana.net <mailto:jking at chambana.net>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     I upgraded mailman late last night, apologies for needing
>     time to do a
>     >     little additional research.
>     >
>     >     The options are now permitted under General Options in list
>     >     administration. I figure I'll leave it up to you guys to
>     experiment with
>     >     the settings you want for from_is_list, unless you want me
>     to do it,
>     >     which is fine too. Mailman seems to recommend that we set up
>     DKIM
>     >     signing for domains for which we enable munging. I had been
>     planning on
>     >     setting this up at some point anyway, but I likely won't get
>     to it until
>     >     at least this weekend.
>     >
>     >     On 05/06/2014 11:58 AM, Stuart Levy wrote:
>     >     > Yes, thank you, having that 2.1.16 from_is_list
>     workaround, even
>     >     though
>     >     > imperfect, would be a great relief!
>     >     >
>     >     > And, thanks, too, for pursuing hotmail. Blast them.
>     >     >
>     >     > On 5/6/14 9:28 AM, Josh King wrote:
>     >     >> Actually, it looks like there is a (not as good) DMARC
>     workaround in
>     >     >> 2.1.16. I'm going to try updating to that in order to try
>     it out, and
>     >     >> see if that will allow us to get around Yahoo until
>     2.1.18 ends up in
>     >     >> the repositories officially.
>     >     >>
>     >     >> On 05/06/2014 10:25 AM, Josh King wrote:
>     >     >>> Thanks for tracking down this issue. Unfortunately the
>     newest
>     >     version
>     >     >>> of Mailman available for Debian (even unstable) is
>     2.1.16. We do
>     >     have
>     >     >>> our own apt repository, though. I'll see if I can roll an
>     >     updated dpkg,
>     >     >>> though it'll be a little risky. It's pretty ridiculous
>     of Yahoo
>     >     to do
>     >     >>> this.
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> Btw, I've applied for hotmail delisting twice, but
>     gotten just
>     >     >>> automated messages repeating the nonsense about
>     namespace mining
>     >     that
>     >     >>> shows up in the logs anyway. I'm currently looking at
>     whether I can
>     >     >>> switch just the mailinglists to a different IP in our
>     allocation to
>     >     >>> work around it.
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> On Tue 06 May 2014 07:25:18 AM EDT, Jay Schubert wrote:
>     >     >>>> I can't do the mailman upgraded, but I will mention
>     that BTP really
>     >     >>>> needs this fixed.  We're dead in the water with our
>     three lists
>     >     until
>     >     >>>> this is resolved.
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Stuart Levy
>     >     <stuartnlevy at gmail.com <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>
>     <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>>
>     >     >>>> <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com
>     <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com> <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com
>     <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>>>>
>     >     wrote:
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>     Dear IMC Tech people,
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>     I'm sorry to bother you again, but am wondering if
>     you can help
>     >     >>>>     with this, or if I can, or both.
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>     Having read last month that Yahoo's DMARC mail trust
>     >     settings were
>     >     >>>>     breaking mailing lists including the IETF's own -
>     >     >>>>
>     > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html
>     >     >>>>     ... I wondered why it wasn't happening here.  
>     Well, it is.
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>     The effect is that, when a Yahoo user writes to an
>     IMC mailing
>     >     >>>>     list which has other Yahoo users as non-digest
>     recipients,
>     >     all of
>     >     >>>>     them - sender and receivers - get bounce messages.
>       The
>     >     receivers
>     >     >>>>     get fatal bounces which immediately suspend them
>     from the list.
>     >     >>>>     This is happening now.
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>     There are workarounds for this in the latest version of
>     >     Mailman,
>     >     >>>>     2.1.18, released just this last weekend --
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>         release notes here:
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>
>     > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-May/076787.html
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>         including this:
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>           [...] a new Privacy options -> Sender filters ->
>     >     dmarc_moderation_action
>     >     >>>>           feature which applies to list messages where the
>     >     From: address is in a
>     >     >>>>           domain which publishes a DMARC policy of
>     reject or
>     >     possibly quarantine.
>     >     >>>>           This is a list setting with values of Accept,
>     Wrap
>     >     Message, Munge From, Reject or Discard.
>     >     >>>>           There is a new DEFAULT_DMARC_MODERATION_ACTION
>     >     configuration setting to set the
>     >     >>>>           default for this, and the list admin UI is
>     not able
>     >     to set an action
>     >     >>>>           which is 'less' than the default.
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>     What would it take to get Mailman 2.1.18 on the
>     > chambana.net <http://chambana.net> <http://chambana.net>
>     >     >>>>     <http://chambana.net> mailing list server?
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>> _______________________________________________
>     >     >>>>     IMC-Tech mailing list
>     >     >>>> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
>     >     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>
>     >     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
>     >     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>>
>     >     >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>>
>     >     >>>> _______________________________________________
>     >     >>>> IMC-Tech mailing list
>     >     >>>> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>
>     >     >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech
>     >     >>> --
>     >     >>> Josh King
>     >     >>> PGP Fingerprint: 8269 ED6F EA3B 7D78 F074 1E99 2FDA 4DA1
>     69AE 4999
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>> _______________________________________________
>     >     >>> IMC-Tech mailing list
>     >     >>> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>
>     >     >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech
>     >     >>>
>     >     >>
>     >     >>
>     >     >> _______________________________________________
>     >     >> IMC-Tech mailing list
>     >     >> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
>     <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>
>     >     >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech
>     >     >
>     >
>     >     --
>     >     Josh King
>     >     PGP Fingerprint: 8269 ED6F EA3B 7D78 F074 1E99 2FDA 4DA1
>     69AE 4999
>     >
>     >
>
>     --
>     Josh King
>     PGP Fingerprint: 8269 ED6F EA3B 7D78 F074 1E99 2FDA 4DA1 69AE 4999
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IMC-Tech mailing list
> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech

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