[UCIMC-Tech] Mailman 2.1.18? - DMARC: Yahoo vs internet mailing lists
Stuart Levy
stuartnlevy at gmail.com
Fri May 9 09:08:53 EDT 2014
That's a different problem. This change solves yahoo's problem, but
hotmail's problem is that they think *anything* coming from the IMC mail
server is spam, regardless of content.
On 5/9/14 8:03 AM, Jay Schubert wrote:
> ok. Since making this setting (mung) and manually re-adding some
> hotmail users then posting to the list, I see that hotmail address are
> still bouncing and their bounce scores are incrementing, suggesting
> that this didn't solve the problem.
>
> thanks,
> Jay
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Josh King <jking at chambana.net
> <mailto:jking at chambana.net>> wrote:
>
> To be honest, I'm not entirely clear how wrap message works. On
> further
> inspection, I think what they're talking about with DKIM is just that
> using 'Mung From' makes DKIM possible for lists, whereas before it
> really wasn't. DKIM associates a cryptographic key with a particular
> domain, but given that mailinglists typically have the 'From'
> address be
> that of the original sender of the message, the DKIM key is mismatched
> and so Mailman usually strips out DKIM headers. Since this function
> changes the 'From' address to be the list and the 'Reply-to' to be the
> original sender, DKIM should work where it usually wouldn't. But
> despite
> their confusing wording, I don't think it's _necessary_. I would
> probably try 'Mung from' first.
>
> On 05/08/2014 07:30 AM, Jay Schubert wrote:
> > thanks. So until that time, do you recommend *Mung From* or *Wrap
> > Message* setting for/from_is_list/?
> >
> > - Jay
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Josh King <jking at chambana.net
> <mailto:jking at chambana.net>
> > <mailto:jking at chambana.net <mailto:jking at chambana.net>>> wrote:
> >
> > I upgraded mailman late last night, apologies for needing
> time to do a
> > little additional research.
> >
> > The options are now permitted under General Options in list
> > administration. I figure I'll leave it up to you guys to
> experiment with
> > the settings you want for from_is_list, unless you want me
> to do it,
> > which is fine too. Mailman seems to recommend that we set up
> DKIM
> > signing for domains for which we enable munging. I had been
> planning on
> > setting this up at some point anyway, but I likely won't get
> to it until
> > at least this weekend.
> >
> > On 05/06/2014 11:58 AM, Stuart Levy wrote:
> > > Yes, thank you, having that 2.1.16 from_is_list
> workaround, even
> > though
> > > imperfect, would be a great relief!
> > >
> > > And, thanks, too, for pursuing hotmail. Blast them.
> > >
> > > On 5/6/14 9:28 AM, Josh King wrote:
> > >> Actually, it looks like there is a (not as good) DMARC
> workaround in
> > >> 2.1.16. I'm going to try updating to that in order to try
> it out, and
> > >> see if that will allow us to get around Yahoo until
> 2.1.18 ends up in
> > >> the repositories officially.
> > >>
> > >> On 05/06/2014 10:25 AM, Josh King wrote:
> > >>> Thanks for tracking down this issue. Unfortunately the
> newest
> > version
> > >>> of Mailman available for Debian (even unstable) is
> 2.1.16. We do
> > have
> > >>> our own apt repository, though. I'll see if I can roll an
> > updated dpkg,
> > >>> though it'll be a little risky. It's pretty ridiculous
> of Yahoo
> > to do
> > >>> this.
> > >>>
> > >>> Btw, I've applied for hotmail delisting twice, but
> gotten just
> > >>> automated messages repeating the nonsense about
> namespace mining
> > that
> > >>> shows up in the logs anyway. I'm currently looking at
> whether I can
> > >>> switch just the mailinglists to a different IP in our
> allocation to
> > >>> work around it.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue 06 May 2014 07:25:18 AM EDT, Jay Schubert wrote:
> > >>>> I can't do the mailman upgraded, but I will mention
> that BTP really
> > >>>> needs this fixed. We're dead in the water with our
> three lists
> > until
> > >>>> this is resolved.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Stuart Levy
> > <stuartnlevy at gmail.com <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>
> <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>>
> > >>>> <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com
> <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com> <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com
> <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>>>>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Dear IMC Tech people,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm sorry to bother you again, but am wondering if
> you can help
> > >>>> with this, or if I can, or both.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Having read last month that Yahoo's DMARC mail trust
> > settings were
> > >>>> breaking mailing lists including the IETF's own -
> > >>>>
> > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html
> > >>>> ... I wondered why it wasn't happening here.
> Well, it is.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The effect is that, when a Yahoo user writes to an
> IMC mailing
> > >>>> list which has other Yahoo users as non-digest
> recipients,
> > all of
> > >>>> them - sender and receivers - get bounce messages.
> The
> > receivers
> > >>>> get fatal bounces which immediately suspend them
> from the list.
> > >>>> This is happening now.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> There are workarounds for this in the latest version of
> > Mailman,
> > >>>> 2.1.18, released just this last weekend --
> > >>>>
> > >>>> release notes here:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2014-May/076787.html
> > >>>>
> > >>>> including this:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> [...] a new Privacy options -> Sender filters ->
> > dmarc_moderation_action
> > >>>> feature which applies to list messages where the
> > From: address is in a
> > >>>> domain which publishes a DMARC policy of
> reject or
> > possibly quarantine.
> > >>>> This is a list setting with values of Accept,
> Wrap
> > Message, Munge From, Reject or Discard.
> > >>>> There is a new DEFAULT_DMARC_MODERATION_ACTION
> > configuration setting to set the
> > >>>> default for this, and the list admin UI is
> not able
> > to set an action
> > >>>> which is 'less' than the default.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> What would it take to get Mailman 2.1.18 on the
> > chambana.net <http://chambana.net> <http://chambana.net>
> > >>>> <http://chambana.net> mailing list server?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> IMC-Tech mailing list
> > >>>> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
> > <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>
> > <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
> > <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>>
> > >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> IMC-Tech mailing list
> > >>>> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>
> > >>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech
> > >>> --
> > >>> Josh King
> > >>> PGP Fingerprint: 8269 ED6F EA3B 7D78 F074 1E99 2FDA 4DA1
> 69AE 4999
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> IMC-Tech mailing list
> > >>> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>
> > >>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> IMC-Tech mailing list
> > >> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net>>
> > >> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Josh King
> > PGP Fingerprint: 8269 ED6F EA3B 7D78 F074 1E99 2FDA 4DA1
> 69AE 4999
> >
> >
>
> --
> Josh King
> PGP Fingerprint: 8269 ED6F EA3B 7D78 F074 1E99 2FDA 4DA1 69AE 4999
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IMC-Tech mailing list
> IMC-Tech at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc-tech
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