[Newspoetry] FLAME WAR!!!!!!

Fri Aug 25 11:32:05 CDT 2000

(http://www-csag.cs.uiuc.edu/individual/pakin/complaint)

It will unmistakably surprise some people to hear me say this, but
there is considerable evidence to show that Newspoetry is serious
about wanting to curry favor with pesky voluble hippies using a
barrage of flattery, especially recognition of their "value," their
"importance," their "educational mission," and other cantankerous
nonsense. I assume you already know that if its cronies are frightened
that it might put the prisoners in charge of running the prison before
long, they have only themselves to blame, but I have something more
important to tell you. To be blunt, Newspoetry wants to transmogrify
society's petty gripes and irrational fears into "issues" to be
catered to. Such intolerance is felt by all people, from every
background. I won't pull any punches here: When Newspoetry says that
it can ignore rules, laws, and protocol without repercussion, in its
mind, that's supposed to end the argument. It's like it believes it
has said something very profound. While reading this letter, you may
have occasionally asked yourself, "Where is all of this leading?" and,
"What is the point exactly?" I deliberately wrote in the style I did
so that you may come up with your own conclusions. Therefore, I leave
you with only the following: We must steer clear of simplistic,
monocausal explanations and mythic bogeymen.

Seldom does an event take place which is such an outrage that the
silent majority stands up and demands action. But the silent majority
is currently demanding that something be done about Bill. In the first
place, those of us who are too lazy or disinterested to let Bill know,
in no uncertain terms, that the messages contained in his propositions
are a powerful source of illumination on the behavior of testy
slaphappy pamphleteers have no right to complain when he and his
cronies turn dopeheads loose against us good citizens. The agenda that
he is attempting to advance is one of alcoholism, repression, and
irreligionism. History offers innumerable examples for the truth of
this assertion. In retrospect, he has always been more irritating than
most pigheaded acrimonious polemics. After I shatter the illusion that
hanging out with what I call gruesome dotty-types is a wonderful,
culturally enriching experience, I know that everyone will come to the
dismayed conclusion that I stated at the beginning of this discussion:
Bill insists that there's no difference between normal people like you
and me and satanic loons. Sorry, Bill, but -- with apologies to
Gershwin -- "it ain't necessarily so." And that's it. I'm sure Bill
seriously believes that arriving at a true state of comprehension is
too difficult and/or time-consuming, seeing how his selective memory
works.

Perhaps you'll pardon me if I write this letter in a more personal
vein than usual. I want to tell you about some personal perceptions of
mine, primarily because even unrestrained con artists would think
twice before sitting next to someone whose sole dream is to hinder
economic growth and job creation. To get immediately to the point, by
allowing William to fortify a social correctness that restricts
experience and defines success with narrow boundaries, we are allowing
him to play puppet master. Better, far better, that Man were without
the gift of speech than that he use it as William does. Better that
Man could neither read nor write than have his head and heart
perverted by the grungy and unpatriotic tommyrot that oozes from
William's pen. And better that the cut of Man's coat and the number of
his buttons were fixed by statute and enforced by penalties than that
William should undermine everyone's capacity to see, or change, the
world as a whole. To tolerate his foul-mouthed undertakings simply
because they're not packaged and sold as loud is to operate in the
gray area between legitimate activity and counter-productive insidious
extremism. There are arguments that have made respectable people out
of crackpots like him, but what makes matters thoroughly intolerable
is knowing that he doesn't give a tinker's damn about any of us. Let
me recap that for you, because it really is extraordinarily important:
We are observing the change in our society's philosophy and values
from freedom and justice to corruption, decay, cynicism, and
injustice. All of these "values" are artistically incorporated in one
person: William. In the end, lascivious curmudgeons must be treated
with political justice, not with civil justice, as they are
unequivocally not real citizens.

It will definitely surprise some people to hear me say this, but
Dirk's opinions are peevish, poisonous to young minds, and
disrespectful to Western values and achievements. With this letter, I
hope to subject Dirk's reinterpretations of historic events to the
rigorous scrutiny they warrant. But first, I would like to make the
following introductory remark: When I first became aware of Dirk's
covert invasion into our thought processes, all I could think was how
some people say that that isn't sufficient evidence to prove that Dirk
is secretly scheming to eliminate those law-enforcement officers who
constitute the vital protective bulwark in the fragile balance between
anarchy and tyranny. And I must agree; one needs much more evidence
than that. But the evidence is there, for anyone who isn't afraid to
look at it. Just look at the way that if, five years ago, I had
described a person like Dirk to you and told you that in five years,
he'd dig a grave in which to bury liberty and freedom, you'd have
thought me disdainful. You'd have laughed at me and told me it
couldn't happen. So it is useful now to note that, first, it has
happened and, second, to try to understand how it happened and how
statements like, "His perceptions of a vast conspiracy lead him to
inappropriate assessments of even the most innocent interactions with
the worst types of postmodernist boisterous vigilantes there are"
accurately express the feelings of most of us here. As a practical
matter, Dirk's cronies believe that women are crazed Pavlovian
sex-dogs who will salivate at any object even remotely phallic in
shape. Although it is perhaps impossible to change the perspective of
those who have such beliefs, I wish nevertheless to build a sane and
healthy society free of Dirk's destructive influences. It is not my
goal to write off whole sections of society, but the opposite.  The
destruction of the Tower of Babel, be it a literal truth, an allegory,
or a mere story based upon cultural archetypes, illustrates this truth
plainly. For some strange reason, Dirk is worried he'll be
disenfranchised and shunned by the most blasphemous nonentities you'll
ever see. That is why, come what may, we must create a world in which
immoralism, plagiarism, and gnosticism are all but forgotten.

On Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 09:58:59AM -0500, William Gillespie wrote:
> > And Wm, now addressing you in particular, weren't you the one who
> > told me that the greatest accomplishment of Newspoetry was the
> > creation of the Newspoetry list which inspired so many people who
> > previously had not self-identified themselves as writers to actually
> > begin writing? Don't you imagine that in part this occurred because
> > of the friendly, down-home, intimate feel of the list-postings in
> > general? In other words, doesn't this aspect of the list promote
> > community, even if some of the members, like myself, aren't within
> > spitting distance of the actual community in Urbana?
> 
> You're right, Dirk. Community is important. But I think it's time we had a real
> flame war. Here's a poem I wrote to flame everyone. Hope you all like it. It's
> called "Spider."
> 
> ---
> 
> Browser better check who's crawling through your files cause I'm gonna fuck with
> you like only information can. You're only as strong as your weakest hyperlink.
> Next page you click on I'm gonna be there grinning and you'll crash with noplace
> to scroll to. Watch your manners on the bulletin board. Don't you know it's rude
> to point and click? Don't send hatemail to strangers. I'm the rat crawling the
> wires and I bite. I'm in the cracks of the mosaic. I'm the virus on your hard
> disc and you ain't got no protection. I know how to change your bloodtype and
> how to multiply your balance by negative one. I'm in your modem and the phantom
> flickering in your dreams. I'm sniffing all your packets. Bow before your
> server. I got a finger on you. Surferboy better stick to your homepage or turn
> off and go out on the street where it's safe. Don't fuck around on the WWW.
> 
> ---
> 
> Okay. Well. I look forward to some good flame mail.
> 
> Peace and Love,
> William
> 
> >
> >
> > I don't know. Again, maybe it's just me.
> >
> > --Dirk (in Cincinnati, but still wondering about Bill's hat--but in a
> > good way!)
> >
> > >The purpose of this message is to address complaints I have received about
> > >this list being used for Urbana-only announcements regarding neither news
> > >nor poetry. It is unlikely, for example, that correspondents living in
> > >Chicago, Cincinnati, Boston, San Diego, or England have Bill's hat. Hell, I
> > >live in Urbana, and I don't even have Bill's hat. "What hat," they are
> > >wondering, "and who's Bill?" Such people would doubtlessly approach such an
> > >email message the way one might approach a meeting of the WEFT Associates,
> > >or the Bulletin Board at the Food Co-op, if you know what I mean. Let's try
> > >to keep the cardinals off the purple coneflowers, if possible. I mean, how
> > >would you feel if you were smoking hand-rolled cigarettes made with Cherry
> > >tobacco from Jon's Pipe Shop, reading the Octopus with Dave King in the
> > >bowling alley at the Illini Union, and Chief Illiniwek walked up to you and
> > >said "While I agree with the aims of the PRC, I think it is rife with
> > >internal political maneuvering and suffers from the machismo of some of the
> > >older activists." Pretty weird, I bet, and that's exactly my point. But
> > >this isn't just about the missing hat of a guy who is so relentlessly
> > >extroverted that he's been in 46 Newspoets' houses all over the world in
> > >the past week alone. (That's the power of Birkenstocks!) Try to look at it
> > >their way: I mean, there they are trying to cross Vine street on Elm to get
> > >to the Elite Diner, but they can't get any farther than the brick median
> > >strip because the students are back in town. It's like arriving at the
> > >Courier Cafe' when they're out of croissants and the salad bar has already
> > >been taken down. They probably feel like taking a walk down by the
> > >abandoned water tower near the train station, or just enjoying a Bob at the
> > >Paradiso, but they can't, because they have to cook a vegan dinner of
> > >organic eggplant from the Blue Moon farm for the School for Designing
> > >Society. See what I mean? Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to start a
> > >controversy about Democracy Now or write an angry riposte to Carl
> > >Estabrook's latest "News from Neptune," believe me, I'm just trying to find
> > >a parking space so I can return some Lyn Hejinian books to the stacks and
> > >maybe take in some Thai food at the Y Eatery. Please don't think that I'm
> > >State Representative Johnson voting against an amendment to protect people
> > >from discrimination based on sexual orientation. So, when posting to the
> > >Newspoetry list, please try to be respectful of those who are least likely
> > >to have your hat.
> > >
> > >Our Founder
> > >
> > >Bill Wendling wrote:
> > >
> > >  > You've seen it.
> > >  > You've loved it.
> > >  > You've laughed at it behind my back.
> > >  >
> > >  > My hat is gone.
> > >  > I know not where.
> > >  > If you have an idea, I'm all ears.
> > >  >
> > >  > Many questions may be asked,
> > >  > but the reunion is the most important part.
> > >  >
> > >  > Thanks to one and all!
> > >  >
> > >  > --
> > >  > || Bill Wendling                        wendling at ganymede.isdn.uiuc.edu
> > >  >
> > >  > _______________________________________________
> > >  > Newspoetry maillist  -  Newspoetry at ganymede.isdn.uiuc.edu
> > >  > http://ganymede.isdn.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/newspoetry
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Newspoetry maillist  -  Newspoetry at ganymede.isdn.uiuc.edu
> > >http://ganymede.isdn.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/newspoetry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Newspoetry maillist  -  Newspoetry at ganymede.isdn.uiuc.edu
> > http://ganymede.isdn.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/newspoetry
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Newspoetry maillist  -  Newspoetry at ganymede.isdn.uiuc.edu
> http://ganymede.isdn.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/newspoetry
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Joe Futrelle
Editor-within-chief,
Newspoetry dot com