[Peace-discuss] Flag Flap

[C. G. Estabrook]

Read Dean's whole comment, if you haven't done so, Matt.  I consider Dean
a perfectly conventional right-wing politician, against whom I'd have many
objections.  But his Confederate flag remark is not racist in any
interesting way; on the contrary, the whole comment suggests (crudely)
questions of class and social programs that bother both liberals and
conservatives in the US.  In fact, they often substitute questions of
race, with which they seem more comfortable, for them.

And I've just reread my comments under this subject line.  I can find no
sarcasm in them, sarcasm in the sense of "a sharp, bitter, or cutting
expression or remark; a bitter gibe or taunt."  (The feeble attempts at
humor are hardly bitter or cutting.)  Not that I think that sarcasm would
necessarily be out of place in these discussions: our interlocutors are
grown-ups and perfectly capable of taking care of themselves in
discussion.  We're talking about serious matters that require candor (like
yours), not condescension.

I'm reminded of the Monty Python routine about the Piranha brothers, Doug
and Dinsdale (a gangster named Vercotti is being interviewed):

	"Vercotti: Doug... (takes a drink) Well, I was terrified of him.
Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads
off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.
	"Interviewer: What did he do?
	"Vercotti: He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic
irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was
vicious..."

Would that I were as accomplished as Doug.  But what have I said that you
find sarcastic?  Regards, Carl


On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Matthew Murrey wrote:

> I've been looking at the posts regarding Dean's confederate flag
> comments. I think that it is a complex issue.  After all I grew up in
> Florida and as a boy scout used to think it was "fun" to fly a
> confederate flag on my tent!  Since then I've certainly had to reflect
> on my own ignorance and have come to see the confederate flag as a
> potent symbol of white racism (why else do some states' white citizens
> cling to it so passionately?)
> 
> I personally think Dean's comment is a racist comment, but understand
> the reluctance to then label him a "racist."  These times we live in
> surely show that one can support viciously racist programs and never
> make an overtly racist comment.  And conversely, one can be on the
> right side of many progressive and race issues and still need to
> examine one's assumptions and perceptions.
> 
> Added note:  Carl, I guess you know by now that I have a great deal of
> respect for your ideas and insights, but I wish you would avoid
> sarcasm when responding to people who disagree with you.  To me
> sarcasm is a strategy used to point out the stupidity or repugnance of
> someone's ideas, not a way of really opening up or challenging someone
> else--especially on a topic as sensitive as race...yikes!
> 
> Matt Murrey