[Peace-discuss] Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Letter
to the Editor: Forum Submission (550 words)]
Paul M. King
pmking at uiuc.edu
Mon Sep 13 08:53:49 CDT 2004
Something else you may be interested in, David.
He's published his personal letter to you...
http://vivalablog.blogspot.com/
..:: paul
---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:41:39 -0700 (PDT)
>From: David Green <davegreen48 at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Letter to the Editor:
Forum Submission (550 words)]
>To: waynema at uiuc.edu, peace-discuss at lists.cu.groogroo.com,
paulmueth at yahoo.com, chana51 at yahoo.com, lazare at uiuc.edu
>
>Dear Wayne:
>
> On Saturday, I submitted the letter you find at
>the bottom of this message to the Daily Illini
>Opinions Editer, who is you. This morning, I received
>the following response from James Sobotaka, a
>columnist who is one of the subjects of my letter.
>
> Exactly how has this happened? Mr. Sobotka is
>welcome to respond to me in print, or personally after
>the publication of my forum submission. But to receive
>a response like this--and such a nasty one-- before my
>letter's publication is a breach of confidentiality. I
>would like to inquire how this has happened.
>
> Beyond that, I think that Sobotka's tone speaks
>for itself. He has a forum in the DI, and you are
>welcome to publish his venom. But I think that you
>should make an effort to bring the Arab/Muslim
>community into this disucssion in a more serious way.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>David Green
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- james sobotka <sobotkajc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:23:57 -0500
>> From: james sobotka <sobotkajc at gmail.com>
>> To: davegreen48 at yahoo.com
>> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Letter to the Editor: Forum
>> Submission (550 words)]
>>
>> David,
>>
>> Ordinarily I don't respond to the Matt Hale type,
>> but since you're
>> such a noted bigot on campus it's my duty as a moral
>> being to stand
>> against you.
>>
>> You're right when you say there is only one
>> acceptable form of racism
>> on campus, but you're a bit confused. This racism
>> is anti-Semitism,
>> known euphemistically as anti-Zionism. As Martin
>> Luther King Jr.
>> spoke, after a young man criticized Zionists, "Don't
>> talk like that!
>> When people criticise Zionists, they mean Jews.
>> You're talking
>> Anti-Semitism." (Encounter Magazine, Dec. 1969, p.
>> 24) Moreover, the
>> Roman Catholic Church – which knows a little a
>> something about the
>> topic – recently declared that anti-Zionism is
>> anti-Semitism. Of
>> course I doubt either of these facts will move you
>> from your position,
>> because while the moral people of the world were
>> denouncing this,
>> while the European Union was busy studying these
>> problems, while Danil
>> Pearl was being murdered for being a Jew, in short
>> while the rest of
>> the world gradually became aware of the growing
>> danger of
>> anti-Semitism promising "Never Again" you sir
>> encouraged these natural
>> demons to rise up.
>>
>> And that, Mr. Green, is why you are the most notable
>> bigot on campus.
>>
>> I pity you, I really do. You have been so corrupted
>> by tall tales by
>> the PLO that you can scarcely tell reality from
>> fiction. Whether or
>> not the first intifada was a popular uprising or not
>> has no bearing on
>> my opinion of Yasser Arafat. He is a monster. From
>> the 1972 Olympics
>> where his organization murdered eleven Israeli
>> athletes to the
>> present, he deserves swift death. Perhaps you don't
>> realize it, but
>> Arafat's PLO was calling for the liberation of
>> Palestine before the
>> West Bank was captured by the Israelis. I know you
>> have a small mind,
>> but perhaps even it could realize what this would
>> mean for the Jews.
>> A bullet and a shallow grave are really too good for
>> Arafat, but the
>> Israeli people are a moral people and will not
>> descend into the
>> barbarism of the Palestinians.
>>
>> I have no such trust in the morality of the
>> Palestinian people. They
>> have turned the West Bank into a death cult. Their
>> children attend
>> summer camps where they learn to be suicide bombers.
>> Their leadership
>> sends children against tanks, hoping they'll be shot
>> for propaganda
>> purposes. They cheered on September 11. They shoot
>> pregnant women
>> and children on their way to protest. They invade
>> Christian holy
>> sites and desecrate them. They use ambulances to
>> deliver explosives.
>> They barge into the Passover meal and blow
>> themselves up, sprinking
>> the blood of their elderly victims on the maztah.
>> They describe the
>> Jews as the sons of pigs and monkeys. They threaten
>> the press. They
>> stifle free speech. They protest the wall as their
>> leaders make money
>> selling Israelis concrete. They adore Adolf Hitler
>> and hope to finish
>> the job he started.
>>
>> Of course you'll probably attribute their actions to
>> the Jews, just
>> like I'm sure you believe that Beslan and the
>> actions on Sept 11 were
>> carried out by the Jews. With those opinions you're
>> in the company of
>> a large portion of the Arab world. I'm sure you
>> know all about their
>> fanaticism, their bigotry, their tyrannts, their
>> stoning of
>> homosexuals, their sub-human treatment of women,
>> their jihad, their
>> self-loathing, their dhimmis, their genocides, their
>> slave markets,
>> their child molestation, their murderous theology,
>> their traditions,
>> and their immoral prophet, book, and god!
>>
>> And moreover, I am sure whole-heartedly approve of
>> all of it.
>>
>> Against such evil, it is rather difficult not to see
>> the good in
>> nations such as Israel, India, Britain, Australia,
>> Russia, and the
>> United States. Yet you have choosen to join the
>> ranks of the souless.
>> Mr. Green we are at war and the stakes have never
>> been higher.
>> Either we shall triumph or darkness the likes the
>> world has never seen
>> shall sweep the globe.
>>
>> I will not stand with those whose only hope in life
>> is to take their
>> own lives and the lives of others. I will not
>> encourage a theology
>> that makes killing and enslaving the infidel a
>> religious duty. I will
>> not mask the Middle East, but will actively seek to
>> pull the mask off
>> their lies.
>>
>> You Mr. Green have choosen to support, to encourage,
>> and to cover up evil.
>>
>> And you son of a bitch you know it.
>>
>> I have choosen to support, to encourage, and to
>> expand whatever good
>> exists in the world.
>>
>> And you son of a bitch you know it too.
>>
>> You and I Mr. Green are on opposite sides of a war
>> of ideas. I might
>> not have your degrees, your resources, or your years
>> of hypocrisy to
>> back me, but I have the hearts, minds, and souls of
>> every moral man
>> from Moses and Socrates to Sharon and Bush.
>>
>> And you know what else you son of a bitch? You know
>> the truth and
>> this knowledge daily eats away at whatever is left
>> of your soul.
>>
>> My words have been harsh, but I do not appreciate
>> being called a
>> racist, and I doubt you do either. If you wish to
>> discuss the
>> relative merits of Israeli actions, I am open to
>> discussion, but I
>> will not discuss anti-Semitism as a respectable
>> philosophy. Your
>> views, if implemented, would result in a second
>> holocaust. Either you
>> are too stupid to understand this, or are hoping for
>> it. I don't know
>> which way you lean, but I have an idea.
>>
>> Until you are willing to accept Israel's right to
>> exist, then please fuck off.
>>
>> James Sobotka
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:05:27 -0500 (CDT), DI
>> opinions editor
>> <opinions at dailyillini.com> wrote:
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Letter to the Editor: Forum Submission
>> (550 words)
>> > From: David Green <davegreen48 at yahoo.com>
>> > Date: Sat, September 11, 2004 6:00 pm
>> > To: opinions at dailyillini.com
>> >
>> > In response to my critique of the "new
>> > anti-semitism," Jeremy Glassenberg (9/9) goes back
>> two
>> > years, and to Canada, to find an example on campus
>> > that is not fabricated. But he fantasizes that a
>> > "racist" mob chanted "kill the Jews" when
>> protesting
>> > Netanyahu's Concordia visit.
>> >
>> > Jordy Cummings, an eyewitness, wrote that "a
>> few
>> > people engaged in violence. But in a situation in
>> > which police, goaded by counter-demonstrators
>> chanting
>> > anti-Arab bigotry, attacked the thousands of
>> peaceful
>> > pro-Palestine demonstrators with tear gas and
>> pepper
>> > spray, a few tempers flared." As for racism,
>> Cummings
>> > states: "Pro-Palestinian speakers at Concordia
>> have
>> > never engaged in anti-Semitism. Netanyahu is
>> clearly
>> > anti-Palestinian and murderous, and wears his
>> bigotry
>> > on his sleeve."
>> >
>> > Glassenberg writes that scholar Norman
>> > Finkelstein claims that the holocaust was an
>> > "exaggeration." Finkelstein is the child of
>> > concentration camp survivors, and has claimed no
>> such
>> > thing. But he has convincingly argued that the
>> > holocaust has been used to silence criticism of
>> > Israel.
>> >
>> > Meanwhile, the only politically correct form
>> of
>> > racism on campus abounds in lurid fashion in the
>> DI.
>> > James Sobotka (9/7) writes "if the media
>> accurately
>> > portrayed Yasser Arafat, would he have won the
>> Nobel
>> > Prize? After starting the first intifada, all
>> Arafat
>> > deserved was a bullet in his temple and a shallow
>> > grave."
>> >
>> > Sobotka is unaware that the first intifada
>> (1987)
>> > was a popular uprising unrelated to the PLO, which
>> was
>> > exiled. Yitzhak Rabin, Arafat's co-prizewinner,
>> > responded to the rock throwers by asserting "we
>> will
>> > break their bones." And so they did, well before
>> > suicide bombings. Later, he was murdered by a
>> > right-wing Jew.
>> >
>> > To add to this hateful chorus, Elie Dvorin
>> (9/9)
>> > claims that in Gaza, "Islamists stone rape victims
>> to
>> > death." I would like to see evidence for this
>> claim. I
>> > have seen photographic evidence that Israeli
>> marksmen
>> > aim for the upper bodies of young unarmed
>> Palestinian
>> > demonstrators. In terms of moral responsibility,
>> this
>> > should be Dvorin's priority. After all, our tax
>> > dollars support this.
>> >
>> > Dvorin asserts that "only countries with
>> Jewish
>> > and Hindu majorities are democratic and most
>> > Christian-majority countries are democracies as
>> well."
>> > Tell that to those in occupied Palestine, and in
>> > Gujarat. Because Dvorin defines terrorism in a
>> manner
>> > that excludes the actions of states like the U.S.
>> and
>> > Israel, he is able to maintain the illusion of
>> being
>> > on the side of good.
>> >
>> > The Zionist and neoconservative discourse of
>> the
>> > "new anti-semitism" is a transparent cover for
>> Israeli
>> > and American criminality, and for bigotry against
>> > Arabs and Muslims. Such propaganda is promoted by
>> > Illinipac and the Jewish Federation, which last
>> spring
>> > accused the editors of the DI, demonizing a Muslim
>> > journalist. On September 2nd, historian Omer
>> Bartov
>> > leveled this charge in global Islamic terms,
>> sponsored
>> > by the Drobny Center and the Illinois Program for
>> > Research in the Humanities. It was presented in
>> > institutionalized racist fashion as a conversation
>> > among Jews--no Muslims invited, none present.
>> >
>> > Again, this is the only acceptable form of
>> racism
>> > at the U of I, and its practice spans from
>> > indoctrinated students to professors to invited
>> > luminaries. It should be the topic of serious
>> debate,
>> > if those involved can allow Muslims to represent
>> > themselves, and to connect this discourse to a
>> > different reality than seen by those who claim to
>> > represent Jews. The rhetoric of Jewish self-pity
>> > serves the propaganda of American empire.
>> >
>> > David Green
>> > 2709 Lakeview Drive
>> > Champaign, IL 61822
>> > 356-2034
>> >
>> > __________________________________
>> > Do you Yahoo!?
>> > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
>> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
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