[Peace-discuss] Reply from Wayne Ma, and Sobotka blog

[David Green]

http://vivalablog.blogspot.com/

Here is the blog for Sobotka, in case you want to gain
more insight regarding this demented individual. I
believe that he is a member of Students for the
Defense of America. You can look up their statement
and brief record under uiuc student organizations.

Below is Wayne Ma's response. I replied to him to the
effect that the issue of racism at the U of I needs to
be seriously debated, as I said in my letter. I am
serious about making these charges not only against
Sobotka and the other DI writers, but as an aspect of
the "new anti-semitism" discourse.

David Green

--- Wayne Ma <waynema at gmail.com> wrote:

> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:04:13 -0500
> From: Wayne Ma <waynema at gmail.com>
> To: David Green <davegreen48 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: [Fwd: Letter to the Editor: Forum
> Submission (550 words)]
> 
> Mr. Green,
> 
> I apologize for Mr. Sobotka. His response to you was
> unprofessional,
> and I will speak to him about it. Sometimes we can't
> print all the
> letters or forums we receive, and sometimes
> columnists don't catch all
> the letters that are written in response to their
> columns if they
> published in the DI. As a result, I always forward
> reader responses to
> columnists in order to give them feedback about what
> the readership
> thinks or to make them aware of issues that readers
> have with their
> columns.
> 
> I forward these responses in good faith that
> columnists will act
> professionally and respond in a constructive way.
> Upon reading Mr.
> Sobotka's response, I am extremely disappointed.
> 
> In terms of privacy, technically, there is no
> expectation of privacy
> within the opinions staff. I don't forward letters
> to anyone other
> than columnists that are mentioned in them. In the
> past, we have never
> had a problem, because letter submitters were more
> than happy to
> receive immediate feedback from the writers they
> mentioned. And if you
> notice, opinions at dailyillini.com is a catch-all for
> all columnist
> feedback, along with the letters to the editor and
> forums.
> 
> However, in the future, I won't forward your
> responses to columnists
> unless it is published.
> 
> As for constructive dialogue within the Arab/Muslim
> community. I find
> it difficult when words such as racism and bigotry
> are used on both
> sides to criticize and attack. Some of Mr. Sobotka's
> opinions are
> extreme, but as long as I feel his arguments aren't
> extremely
> inflammatory, he's been given the right to say them.
> 
> -Wayne
> 
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:41:39 -0700 (PDT), David
> Green
> <davegreen48 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Dear Wayne:
> > 
> >      On Saturday, I submitted the letter you find
> at
> > the bottom of this message to the Daily Illini
> > Opinions Editer, who is you. This morning, I
> received
> > the following response from James Sobotaka, a
> > columnist who is one of the subjects of my letter.
> > 
> >       Exactly how has this happened? Mr. Sobotka
> is
> > welcome to respond to me in print, or personally
> after
> > the publication of my forum submission. But to
> receive
> > a response like this--and such a nasty one--
> before my
> > letter's publication is a breach of
> confidentiality. I
> > would like to inquire how this has happened.
> > 
> >       Beyond that, I think that Sobotka's tone
> speaks
> > for itself. He has a forum in the DI, and you are
> > welcome to publish his venom. But I think that you
> > should make an effort to bring the Arab/Muslim
> > community into this disucssion in a more serious
> way.
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > 
> > David Green
> > 
> > --- james sobotka <sobotkajc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:23:57 -0500
> > > From: james sobotka <sobotkajc at gmail.com>
> > > To: davegreen48 at yahoo.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Letter to the Editor: Forum
> > > Submission (550 words)]
> > >
> > > David,
> > >
> > > Ordinarily I don't respond to the Matt Hale
> type,
> > > but since you're
> > > such a noted bigot on campus it's my duty as a
> moral
> > > being to stand
> > > against you.
> > >
> > > You're right when you say there is only one
> > > acceptable form of racism
> > > on campus, but you're a bit confused.  This
> racism
> > > is anti-Semitism,
> > > known euphemistically as anti-Zionism.  As
> Martin
> > > Luther King Jr.
> > > spoke, after a young man criticized Zionists,
> "Don't
> > > talk like that!
> > > When people criticise Zionists, they mean Jews.
> > > You're talking
> > > Anti-Semitism." (Encounter Magazine, Dec. 1969,
> p.
> > > 24)  Moreover, the
> > > Roman Catholic Church â€" which knows a
> little a
> > > something about the
> > > topic â€" recently declared that anti-Zionism
> is
> > > anti-Semitism.  Of
> > > course I doubt either of these facts will move
> you
> > > from your position,
> > > because while the moral people of the world were
> > > denouncing this,
> > > while the European Union was busy studying these
> > > problems, while Danil
> > > Pearl was being murdered for being a Jew, in
> short
> > > while the rest of
> > > the world gradually became aware of the growing
> > > danger of
> > > anti-Semitism promising "Never Again" you sir
> > > encouraged these natural
> > > demons to rise up.
> > >
> > > And that, Mr. Green, is why you are the most
> notable
> > > bigot on campus.
> > >
> > > I pity you, I really do.  You have been so
> corrupted
> > > by tall tales by
> > > the PLO that you can scarcely tell reality from
> > > fiction.  Whether or
> > > not the first intifada was a popular uprising or
> not
> > > has no bearing on
> > > my opinion of Yasser Arafat.  He is a monster. 
> From
> > > the 1972 Olympics
> > > where his organization murdered eleven Israeli
> > > athletes to the
> > > present, he deserves swift death.  Perhaps you
> don't
> > > realize it, but
> > > Arafat's PLO was calling for the liberation of
> > > Palestine before the
> > > West Bank was captured by the Israelis.  I know
> you
> > > have a small mind,
> > > but perhaps even it could realize what this
> would
> > > mean for the Jews.
> > > A bullet and a shallow grave are really too good
> for
> > > Arafat, but the
> > > Israeli people are a moral people and will not
> > > descend into the
> > > barbarism of the Palestinians.
> > >
> > > I have no such trust in the morality of the
> > > Palestinian people.  They
> > > have turned the West Bank into a death cult. 
> Their
> > > children attend
> > > summer camps where they learn to be suicide
> bombers.
> > >  Their leadership
> > > sends children against tanks, hoping they'll be
> shot
> > > for propaganda
> > > purposes.  They cheered on September 11.  They
> shoot
> > > pregnant women
> > > and children on their way to protest.  They
> invade
> > > Christian holy
> > > sites and desecrate them.  They use ambulances
> to
> > > deliver explosives.
> > > They barge into the Passover meal and blow
> > > themselves up, sprinking
> > > the blood of their elderly victims on the
> maztah.
> > > They describe the
> > > Jews as the sons of pigs and monkeys.  They
> threaten
> > > the press.  They
> > > stifle free speech.  They protest the wall as
> their
> > > leaders make money
> > > selling Israelis concrete.  They adore Adolf
> Hitler
> > > and hope to finish
> > > the job he started.
> > >
> > > Of course you'll probably attribute their
> actions to
> > > the Jews, just
> > > like I'm sure you believe that Beslan and the
> > > actions on Sept 11 were
> > > carried out by the Jews.  With those opinions
> you're
> > > in the company of
> > > a large portion of the Arab world.  I'm sure you
> > > know all about their
> > > fanaticism, their bigotry, their tyrannts, their
> > > stoning of
> > > homosexuals, their sub-human treatment of women,
> > > their jihad, their
> > > self-loathing, their dhimmis, their genocides,
> their
> > > slave markets,
> > > their child molestation, their murderous
> theology,
> > > their traditions,
> > > and their immoral prophet, book, and god!
> > >
> > > And moreover, I am sure whole-heartedly approve
> of
> > > all of it.
> > >
> > > Against such evil, it is rather difficult not to
> see
> > > the good in
> > > nations such as Israel, India, Britain,
> Australia,
> > > Russia, and the
> > > United States.  Yet you have choosen to join the
> > > ranks of the souless.
> > >  Mr. Green we are at war and the stakes have
> never
> > > been higher.
> > > Either we shall triumph or darkness the likes
> the
> > > world has never seen
> > > shall sweep the globe.
> > >
> > > I will not stand with those whose only hope in
> life
> > > is to take their
> > > own lives and the lives of others.  I will not
> > > encourage a theology
> > > that makes killing and enslaving the infidel a
> > > religious duty.  I will
> > > not mask the Middle East, but will actively seek
> to
> > > pull the mask off
> > > their lies.
> > >
> > > You Mr. Green have choosen to support, to
> encourage,
> > > and to cover up evil.
> > >
> > > And you son of a bitch you know it.
> > >
> > > I have choosen to support, to encourage, and to
> > > expand whatever good
> > > exists in the world.
> > >
> > > And you son of a bitch you know it too.
> > >
> > > You and I Mr. Green are on opposite sides of a
> war
> > > of ideas.  I might
> > > not have your degrees, your resources, or your
> years
> > > of hypocrisy to
> > > back me, but I have the hearts, minds, and souls
> of
> > > every moral man
> > > from Moses and Socrates to Sharon and Bush.
> > >
> > > And you know what else you son of a bitch?  You
> know
> > > the truth and
> > > this knowledge daily eats away at whatever is
> left
> > > of your soul.
> > >
> > > My words have been harsh, but I do not
> appreciate
> > > being called a
> > > racist, and I doubt you do either.  If you wish
> to
> > > discuss the
> > > relative merits of Israeli actions, I am open to
> > > discussion, but I
> > > will not discuss anti-Semitism as a respectable
> > > philosophy.  Your
> > > views, if implemented, would result in a second
> > > holocaust.  Either you
> > > are too stupid to understand this, or are hoping
> for
> > > it.  I don't know
> > > which way you lean, but I have an idea.
> > >
> > > Until you are willing to accept Israel's right
> to
> > > exist, then please fuck off.
> > >
> > > James Sobotka
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:05:27 -0500 (CDT), DI
> > > opinions editor
> > > <opinions at dailyillini.com> wrote:
> > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > Subject: Letter to the Editor: Forum
> Submission
> > > (550 words)
> > > > From: David Green <davegreen48 at yahoo.com>
> > > > Date: Sat, September 11, 2004 6:00 pm
> > > > To: opinions at dailyillini.com
> > > >
> > > >      In response to my critique of the "new
> > > > anti-semitism," Jeremy Glassenberg (9/9) goes
> back
> > > two
> > > > years, and to Canada, to find an example on
> campus
> > > > that is not fabricated. But he fantasizes that
> a
> > > > "racist" mob chanted "kill the Jews" when
> > > protesting
> > > > Netanyahu's Concordia visit.
> > > >
> > > >      Jordy Cummings, an eyewitness, wrote that
> "a
> > > few
> > > > people engaged in violence. But in a situation
> in
> > > > which police, goaded by counter-demonstrators
> > > chanting
> > > > anti-Arab bigotry, attacked the thousands of
> > > peaceful
> > > > pro-Palestine demonstrators with tear gas and
> > > pepper
> > > > spray, a few tempers flared." As for racism,
> > > Cummings
> > > > states: "Pro-Palestinian speakers at Concordia
> > > have
> > > > never engaged in anti-Semitism. Netanyahu is
> > > clearly
> > > > anti-Palestinian and murderous, and wears his
> > > bigotry
> > > > on his sleeve."
> > > >
> > > >      Glassenberg writes that scholar Norman
> > > > Finkelstein claims that the holocaust was an
> > > > "exaggeration." Finkelstein is the child of
> > > > concentration camp survivors, and has claimed
> no
> > > such
> > > > thing. But he has convincingly argued that the
> > > > holocaust has been used to silence criticism
> of
> > > > Israel.
> > > >
> > > >      Meanwhile, the only politically correct
> form
> > > of
> > > > racism on campus abounds in lurid fashion in
> the
> > > DI.
> > > > James Sobotka (9/7) writes "if the media
> > > accurately
> > > > portrayed Yasser Arafat, would he have won the
> > > Nobel
> > > > Prize? After starting the first intifada, all
> > > Arafat
> > > > deserved was a bullet in his temple and a
> shallow
> > > > grave."
> > > >
> > > >      Sobotka is unaware that the first
> intifada
> > > (1987)
> > > > was a popular uprising unrelated to the PLO,
> which
> > > was
> > > > exiled. Yitzhak Rabin, Arafat's
> co-prizewinner,
> > > > responded to the rock throwers by asserting
> "we
> > > will
> > > > break their bones." And so they did, well
> before
> > > > suicide bombings. Later, he was murdered by a
> > > > right-wing Jew.
> > > >
> > > >      To add to this hateful chorus, Elie
> Dvorin
> > > (9/9)
> > > > claims that in Gaza, "Islamists stone rape
> victims
> > > to
> > > > death." I would like to see evidence for this
> > > claim. I
> > > > have seen photographic evidence that Israeli
> > > marksmen
> > > > aim for the upper bodies of young unarmed
> > > Palestinian
> > > > demonstrators. In terms of moral
> responsibility,
> > > this
> > > > should be Dvorin's priority. After all, our
> tax
> > > > dollars support this.
> > > >
> > > >      Dvorin asserts that "only countries with
> > > Jewish
> > > > and Hindu majorities are democratic and most
> > > > Christian-majority countries are democracies
> as
> > > well."
> > > > Tell that to those in occupied Palestine, and
> in
> > > > Gujarat. Because Dvorin defines terrorism in a
> > > manner
> > > > that excludes the actions of states like the
> U.S.
> > > and
> > > > Israel, he is able to maintain the illusion of
> > > being
> > > > on the side of good.
> > > >
> > > >      The Zionist and neoconservative discourse
> of
> > > the
> > > > "new anti-semitism" is a transparent cover for
> > > Israeli
> > > > and American criminality, and for bigotry
> against
> > > > Arabs and Muslims. Such propaganda is promoted
> by
> > > > Illinipac and the Jewish Federation, which
> last
> > > spring
> > > > accused the editors of the DI, demonizing a
> Muslim
> > > > journalist. On September 2nd, historian Omer
> > > Bartov
> > > > leveled this charge in global Islamic terms,
> > > sponsored
> > > > by the Drobny Center and the Illinois Program
> for
> > > > Research in the Humanities. It was presented
> in
> > > > institutionalized racist fashion as a
> conversation
> > > > among Jews--no Muslims invited, none present.
> > > >
> > > >      Again, this is the only acceptable form
> of
> > > racism
> > > > at the U of I, and its practice spans from
> > > > indoctrinated students to professors to
> invited
> > > > luminaries. It should be the topic of serious
> > > debate,
> > > > if those involved can allow Muslims to
> represent
> > > > themselves, and to connect this discourse to a
> > > > different reality than seen by those who claim
> to
> > > > represent Jews. The rhetoric of Jewish
> self-pity
> > > > serves the propaganda of American empire.
> > > >
> > > > David Green
> > > > 2709 Lakeview Drive
> > > > Champaign, IL 61822
> > > > 356-2034
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
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> > >
> > 
> > 
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> 



		
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