[Peace-discuss] The Christmas He Dreamed for All of Us

[janine giordano]

Agreed, the time of year to celebrate Christianity, and 
indeed the definition of "pagans," arose in the course of 
defending the Christian faith against worshippers of other 
gods. But, why do some think that this knowledge gives them 
the freedom to lash out against the legitimacy of Christian 
faith?: Why the need to call Christ X? Why the desire to 
erode Christmas of its spirituality for the secular popular 
sector? What is so threatening about Christianity? 

If we really hope to build a movement, if we really hope to 
build some kind of tangible change from "presences" outside 
of churches, we have to articulate why we find Christianity 
is so threatening. We have to decide whether or not we are 
willing to build coalition with believers that Christ is the 
one and only Messiah, Savior of the World. We have to decide 
whether we want our movement for social justice/ peace/ etc 
to be completely marxist-materialist or not. I use "we" as 
referring to my identification with those who fight for 
social justice and human dignity. As a Christian, I do not 
understand this obsessive need to turn Christ into "Xy" and 
discuss its historically contingent syncretism. Knowing 
Christ is not something someone can be rationally convinced 
into or out of.

My opinion is that we are not going to get very far with an 
activist movement for justice in this country without the 
collaboration of "believers" (those whose faith is in 
something unseen). We don't all have to ask each other to 
convert. But, we have to respect each other's traditions. Do 
we really believe that Christian theology is at the center 
of Bush's conservative-hegemonic political coalition? If so, 
please explain. If not, can we please start fighting the 
real beast-----or at least come to consensus in defining the 
real beast?? At risk here are millions of socially conscious 
believers (Christian and otherwise) who are upset by an 
attack on their treasure, their identity, their worldly 
motivation.

janine


---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 03:32:35 -0600
>From: "John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com>  
>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Christmas He Dreamed for 
All of Us   
>To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>, Tracy Nectoux 
<tnectoux at uiuc.edu>, peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>
>At 11:50 PM 12/22/2005, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>
>>I think it is, in regard to Xmas, at least in the sense 
that
>>the early Xn movement purposely scheduled the celebration 
of
>>Christ's birth at the time of the solstice festivals 
popular
>>in the rather sophisticated urban culture of the first
>>century. (E.g., Mithraism, popular in the Roman military, 
used
>>sun symbols.)
>>
>>In the larger sense, the relation of Xy to the surrounding
>>religious culture, which eventually came to be called pagan
>>(lit., the religion of country-people), was much debated in
>>the Xn writings of the first several centuries 
('patristics'),
>>In the period ca. 100-500 CE, Christianity worked its way 
up
>>the social scale of Roman imperial civilization, which was 
a
>>league of city-states of varying cultures. (The imperial 
court
>>became Xn only in the course of the fourth century.)
>>
>>The culmination (and in some sense the conclusion, as the
>>empire in the West gave way to 'barbarian' kingdoms) of 
this
>>process came in the work of Augustine of Hippo (d. 430 CE),
>>who thought that Xy should properly 'despoil the 
Egyptians':
>>just as the Israelites had taken things of value as they
>>escaped from Egypt, according to the book of Exodus, so Xy
>>should take what was of value in classical culture.
>>
>>Xy has generally been syncretistic in that sense.  As one 
of
>>the patristic writers put it, 'anima naturaliter 
christiana'
>>-- human nature is naturally Christian -- and so should
>>include what is best in human achievement.  It's been a
>>popular sentiment: Karl Marx took as his motto a line from 
the
>>Roman poet Terence, 'homo sum; nihil humanum alienum a me
>>puto' -- 'Being human, I don't consider anything human 
foreign
>>to me.'
>>
>>And Chesterton's ballad is a strange but interesting read.
>>
>>Merry Xmas, CGE
>
>
>And there you have it.  Quid erat non disputandam.  Or 
something.  All 
>praise to X this Xmas.
>
>
>
>---- Original message ----
>> >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:05:41 -0600
>> >From: Tracy Nectoux <tnectoux at uiuc.edu>
>> >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The Christmas He Dreamed 
for All
>>of Us
>> >To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> >
>> >---- Original message ----
>> >>Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:34:52 -0600
>> >>From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>   "...because it is only Christian men
>> >>   Guard even heathen things."
>> >>
>> >>   --Chesterton, Ballad of the White Horse
>> >
>> >A beautiful quote.  But is it true?
>> >
>> >Peace,
>> >Tracy
>
>_______________________________________________
>Peace-discuss mailing list
>Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss