[Peace-discuss] RE: The Christmas He Dreamed for All of Us

[Paul M. King]

> you choose to brand me a fanatic, worthy of rejection,
> and if your views are similar to those of other AWARE 
> members, it explains a lot.

You're right, Phil. Janine said it nicely: "To me, it's not
about compromise but alignment on a couple key points for a
greater cause." Debate about core beliefs and identities is
fruitless and rejection is foolish. It's better to work
together contentiously than isolate ourselves in peaceful
ignorance.

Also, I'm sorry if I've inadvertently branded any Christians
on this listserv as fanatic. However, I and many others feel
branded as unregenerate sinners by Christendom and I don't
like it. It's presumptive, arrogant, dismissive and wrong.
Most importantly, it separates me from you.

> On the issue of materialism, would you agree that
> rejecting fundamentalists reduces the social justice
> movement to a humanist position?  If God is removed
> from the equation, doesn’t that just leave humanistic
> reasons for supporting social justice?

Phil, I have a question for you. I'm reborn but I reject Jesus
as my savior. How do you reconcile this?

I think most people in the social justice movement are
spiritually mature. I can feel it when I'm with them. You do
too, don't you, Phil? We are brethren with an unspoken and
holy bond to one another. Many, I'm sure, have experienced a
rebirth outside of the ideological confines of Christianity.
The science of rebirth transcends and predates any specific
creed and has been documented in (many pagan) cultures
throughout the world. We are not Godless just because we
reject Jesus as our savior. God is still part of the equation.
We just don't conceive of God as a brand name with a logo. The
language of humanism is simply a semantic bridge between
tolerant people within a pluralistic society.

> What you're describing has a Christian counterpart
> called the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.  It's a
> continual process, and exceedingly fascinating. It's
> joyful, at times painful, and it does have something
> to do with realizing when we are wrong.  I assure you,
> Christian faith doesn't stop when you're born again.

I've never heard of the indwelling. Sounds like a beautiful
idea.

> For Christians, love is externalized, focused on God
> and neighbor. ... For non-Christians, there seems to
> be a greater love of self.

I don't think so. Again, I think this is a failure to
acknowledge the value and legitimacy of other faiths, whether
it's organized or home-grown and personal. This is the
essential arrogance of Christianity and it is also very
dangerous (for the reasons Mark enumerated).

> Christianity, true Christianity, is not about public
> appearances or doing lip service, it's about deep
> abiding faith, and transforming your life to serve God.

I wish more Christians felt this way, Phil.

Question: What would it mean for AWARE to have substantive
dialogue with the mainstream Christian community? What do we
want from them? What can we give them? What is the best way to
develop genuine relationships with them for the purpose of
building future coalitions?