[Peace-discuss] Forgiveness Weekend program schedule

[C. G. Estabrook]

The rather headlong nature of your post makes it difficult to answer,
Danielle, and you indicate that you don't want to discuss the matter by
e-mail anyway (and that you were not "able to face [me] at the meeting
yesterday"...?)

I don't believe I mentioned the matter at any meeting yesterday.  What I
did do was send you a question after the AWARE meeting: "What,
specifically, is the disenfranchisement of felons that this conference
seeks to end?" The question seemed quite straightforward to me.

Randall offered what seemed to me to be an answer from a party with an
interest in the matter, and we discussed it.  But I now understand him to
say that it was at best a partial or tentative indication of what an
answer would be.

You know that I agree that drug laws and resulting imprisonments are not
accidental evils in our society, but instead malign mechanisms of social
control that must be opposed politically. But I still don't know what,
specifically, is the disenfranchisement of felons that your conference
seeks to end.

Regards, Carl


On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Danielle Schumacher wrote:

> Thanks to Randall for all the time he put into defending Forgiveness
> Weekend.  As Randall said, the organizers of the event are overwhelmed
> for several reasons.  We have been putting as much information out
> about the CONFERENCE as possible, and while we know it does not
> contain as much information as we would like it to, we are doing what
> we can and we know that the event itself will contain most of the
> information you are looking for.  We are actually overwhelmed wth
> support.  For instance, I had to spend several days trying to arrange
> accomodations for people coming from out of town because there is a
> high school state wrestling championship that is taking all the hotel
> rooms.  We weren't expecting so many people from out of town for the
> events, so we didn't have rooms reserved far enough ahead of time :)
> !!!  The other thing that is overwhelming me personally is resistance
> and ATTACK from Carl.  I hope this is not your intention, Carl, but
> you are keeping me up at night because I am incredibly upset that the
> group I thought I was a part of is now allowing you to work so
> actively against everything I am trying to do.  And you don't even
> understand what I am trying to do!  I supposed I could have tried to
> clear some of your questions up sooner, but does anyone in AWARE blaim
> me for not being able to face you at the meeting yesterday?  And does
> anyone hold it against me that I feel it is a waste of time?  Should I
> put time into trying to change your mind or should I be putting time
> into making the CONFERENCE better?  I didn't answer all these emails
> last night, because I honestly couldn't believe they were happening,
> and now I am taking time from my new, wonderful job to answer this
> because I think it has gone way too far.  And all through email!  Why
> not on the phone?  The Forgiveness Weekend press release has my phone
> number.  Call and ask the questions, and I will answer if I can and
> talk to you when I have time.  I chose to use email in this case so
> that everyone could see my response, since you chose to attack us in a
> public venue.  And is Aaron even on the discuss list?  Why would you
> attack him in a venue in which he cannot even defend himself?  Please
> think about the situation you have put me in.  If I choose to not
> spend this time to answer your questions, you will continue to assume
> things.  If I choose to answer them, I am hoping I can calm your fears
> and I am taking time out of my work day, at which I get paid hourly
> and need every dollar because I am taking days off later in the week
> because Cliff Thornton will be my guest in town.  Honestly, I feel
> tempted to ask you to pay me for time lost at work and sleep lost,
> etc.
> 
> Now, rather than go through each email and respond to each concern, I
> have read through them as quickly as I could since I will tell my
> supervisor at the Y to not pay me for the hour this entire process
> will take me.  I will respond with overall comments instead of
> nitpicky details.  Thanks again to Randall for answering your
> questions, since that is what he did!  Aaron's commentary should have
> answered what other forms of disenfranchisement we are referring to:
> the Higher Education Act Drug Provision denies financial aid to anyone
> with a drug conviction of any kind. public housing, government jobs,
> and other forms of public assistance are denied to felons.
> 
> We are not just talking about Illinois.  We are talking about all
> felons in the U.S.  And we are mostly talking about felons whose only
> crime was drug POSSESSION and other NON-VIOLENT crimes.  Carl, you
> keep referring to violent criminals.  That is a different story, yet
> they are dealt with through the same criminal justice system so we
> must talk about them, too.  They too need forgiveness.
> 
> I am tempted to just tell you to give it a rest and just come to the
> events and ask your questions there.  If you are not willing to do
> this sort of thing in public, only through email, then please refrain
> from doing it.  I don't feel right about it, doing it through email.  
> I would much prefer to work through all these issues in a public,
> personal way.
> 
> As for the distinction between "rally" and "conference"- I seem to
> remember you volunteering at an AWARE table at the Amnesty conference
> I held on campus last year.  Carol and Aaron obviously didn't have
> anything to do with the planning of that, but I think you will see the
> similarities between the two events.  No one had anything bad to say
> about that event, so why is this one (which I feel is going to be 100
> times better) being attacked by so many people on so many levels?  No
> one dug up dirt on the speakers at that conference before approving
> the AWARE money that supported it.
> 
> As for the worth of Forgiveness Weekend... Carl, what are YOU doing to
> make the problem better?  Since you have such a perfect understanding
> of the problem, why are we (Forgiveness Weekend organizers) the only
> ones trying to do anything about it?  I'm sorry you feel that we are
> not doing enough, but at least we are trying to do something.  And we
> don't even have any money to do it with!!  I am confident that
> everything that is happening this Weekend is worth your time and at
> the very least will not be hurting society.  Everything we all learn
> this weekend, all the discussions we will have, all the action we will
> take can only help.
> 
> Carl, if you have any respect AT ALL for ANYONE, please stop these
> posts immediately.
> 
> I look forward to seeing all of you this Weekend!
> 
> Danielle
>