[Peace-discuss] A conservative on anti-war movements

[Morton K. Brussel]

Several parallel points, Carl:

1) MoveOn was initially against the war. Then they were quiet; now  
their readership tells them to resist the occupation, and so again  
they've taken an explicit position against it. So your attribution to  
them of "staying the course" is wrong. Moreover, I don't agree that  
they are, in your pejorative phrase,  a Democratic front. They are  
simply like typical Democrats, most of whom were/are against the war,  
but have been too timid to come out and actively join the struggle.  
Or have had too much faith in their Democratic political leaders.

2) Perhaps a useful distinction. But your last sentence doesn't  
follow, unless you say "liberal POLITICIANS".

3) If i recall correctly, many from the House caucus voted against  
the war resolution given to Bush. And they've done useful work on the  
issue of the Downing Street memo. Whether that constitutes bravery of  
not, I'm not sure. But for sure, I wish they had made even more noise.

I think you mischaracterize a huge swath of people who consider  
themselves liberal, and who have been against the war on principled  
grounds. It's one thing to rant about the cowardliness, or ignorance,  
or self deception, or opportunism, or jingoism, of the Democratic  
party leadership; it's another to smear the general liberal  
constituency with this brush. I think that constituency is reflected  
best in The Nation magazine, with which I too have sometimes been  
disappointed. But on the whole they have come out against almost all  
the Bush policies (even on Israel), usefully so. Jonathan Schell is a  
liberal; so is Nader, and others (Pollitt?, Greider, Alterman) by  
your definition.

--Mort


On Jul 12, 2005, at 11:00 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:

> Several points, Mort:
>
> [1] It's surprising that you should start with MoveOn, a
> Democratic party front group that is thoroughly liberal in my
> lexicon -- and their position on the war is "stay the course"!
>
> [2] I'd make a distinction between liberal and left,
> fundamentally on the point of support for or opposition to
> capitalism.  All of the elected Democratic politicians in the
> country (including Bernie Sanders, tho' he would deny it) fall
> into the first group; the Progressive, Z Mag, Counterpunch
> etc. (I have doubts about The Nation), into the second group.
>  On that reading, it's almost exact that the left opposes the
> war and liberals don't.
>
> [3] Where are the brave actions of the "progressive caucus" in
> the House against the war?  Only now do we get a a hat-in-hand
> petition from some of them, asking the president please to
> tell them how and when he's going to get out of Iraq. (It's
> true that with the exception of Ron Paul and one or two
> others, the paleo-conservative position is not represented in
> the House.)
>
> My point is that principled opposition to the war (and not
> just worries that it isn't working very well) is found among
> paleo-conservatives (what I posted was an example) and on the
> left -- and not among liberals.  --CGE
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
>
>> Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 21:20:23 -0500
>> From: "Morton K. Brussel" <brussel4 at insightbb.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] A conservative on anti-war
>>
> movements
>
>> To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>> Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>
>>
>>> Can you think of (m)any liberals who have had as principled a
>>> stand against the war?
>>>
>>
>> Carl, almost all those who signed on to MoveOn.org are/were
>>
> liberals
>
>> and strongly against the war, even if they've wobbled at
>>
> times since
>
>> about the occupation. The same is true of UFPJ (United for
>>
> Peace and
>
>> Justice), Peace-Action, liberal periodicals like the
>>
> Progressive, The
>
>> Nation, Z Magazine. Internet sources such as CommonDreams.org
>>
> or
>
>> ZNet. Of course, most social-ist inclined folks, Greens,
>> Counterpunchers, etc.   were strongly against the war, but I
>>
> guess
>
>> you would not classify them as liberal. Is Nader a liberal?
>>
>> You are right that the so-called liberal politicians
>>
> (Democrats) have
>
>> failed miserably to stand up and speak out loudly against
>>
> this war,
>
>> but neither can I remember any "conservative" politicians
>>
> who've done
>
>> so . At least there is a progressive caucus in the House that
>>
> has
>
>> been against the war policies; there is no equivalent group
>>
> on the
>
>> other side. I could go on to list many other liberal
>>
> organizations
>
>> who've taken strong stands against the "war". There is no
>>
> equivalent
>
>> that I know on the other side.
>>
>> It is for this reason that I dislike your promotion of certain
>> conservative spokesmen to the exclusion of those on the left
>>
> who've
>
>> said the same things, and far longer.
>>
>> --mkb
>>
>>
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