[Peace-discuss] A conservative on anti-war movements

[David Green]

Yes, but I'm concerned with the "principles" of people
like Pat Buchanan, whose opposition to the war is
based on another form of chauvinism. If we don't want
to identify with the anti-Semites (such as they are)
who oppose our alliance with Israel, why do we want to
identify with nativists, not to mention the native
libertarians who never connect the dots of government
power and corporate power? This relates to the problem
I have with Hentoff as a civil libertarian who
supported the war, and supports Israel.

David

--- "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu> wrote:

> Several points, Mort:
> 
> [1] It's surprising that you should start with
> MoveOn, a
> Democratic party front group that is thoroughly
> liberal in my
> lexicon -- and their position on the war is "stay
> the course"!
> 
> [2] I'd make a distinction between liberal and left,
> fundamentally on the point of support for or
> opposition to
> capitalism.  All of the elected Democratic
> politicians in the
> country (including Bernie Sanders, tho' he would
> deny it) fall
> into the first group; the Progressive, Z Mag,
> Counterpunch
> etc. (I have doubts about The Nation), into the
> second group.
>  On that reading, it's almost exact that the left
> opposes the
> war and liberals don't.
> 
> [3] Where are the brave actions of the "progressive
> caucus" in
> the House against the war?  Only now do we get a a
> hat-in-hand
> petition from some of them, asking the president
> please to
> tell them how and when he's going to get out of
> Iraq. (It's
> true that with the exception of Ron Paul and one or
> two
> others, the paleo-conservative position is not
> represented in
> the House.)
> 
> My point is that principled opposition to the war
> (and not
> just worries that it isn't working very well) is
> found among
> paleo-conservatives (what I posted was an example)
> and on the
> left -- and not among liberals.  --CGE
> 
> 
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 21:20:23 -0500
> >From: "Morton K. Brussel" <brussel4 at insightbb.com> 
> 
> >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] A conservative on
> anti-war
> movements  
> >To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
> >Cc: Peace Discuss
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> >
> >> Can you think of (m)any liberals who have had as
> principled a
> >> stand against the war?
> >
> >Carl, almost all those who signed on to MoveOn.org
> are/were
> liberals  
> >and strongly against the war, even if they've
> wobbled at
> times since  
> >about the occupation. The same is true of UFPJ
> (United for
> Peace and  
> >Justice), Peace-Action, liberal periodicals like
> the
> Progressive, The  
> >Nation, Z Magazine. Internet sources such as
> CommonDreams.org
> or  
> >ZNet. Of course, most social-ist inclined folks,
> Greens,  
> >Counterpunchers, etc.   were strongly against the
> war, but I
> guess  
> >you would not classify them as liberal. Is Nader a
> liberal?
> >
> >You are right that the so-called liberal
> politicians
> (Democrats) have  
> >failed miserably to stand up and speak out loudly
> against
> this war,  
> >but neither can I remember any "conservative"
> politicians
> who've done  
> >so . At least there is a progressive caucus in the
> House that
> has  
> >been against the war policies; there is no
> equivalent group
> on the  
> >other side. I could go on to list many other
> liberal
> organizations  
> >who've taken strong stands against the "war". There
> is no
> equivalent  
> >that I know on the other side.
> >
> >It is for this reason that I dislike your promotion
> of certain  
> >conservative spokesmen to the exclusion of those on
> the left
> who've  
> >said the same things, and far longer.
> >
> >--mkb
> >
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