[Peace-discuss] RE: Darfur (and Gaza)

Wendy Edwards wedwards at uiuc.edu
Wed Dec 6 15:05:40 CST 2006 

Wait, isn't it a logical fallacy to say, "Since I find Wiesel's
positions on other issues questionable, whatever he has to say
about Darfur must be wrong too?"

Wendy

On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 02:55:18PM -0600, Morton K. Brussel wrote:
> I am sympathetic with your concern for the atrocities in Darfur, and  
> that intervention (of some sort) to stop them is needed, but you do  
> your case no good in arguing for intervention there by quoting  
> someone, Weisel, whose hypocrisy is manifest: It could lead one to  
> believe that intervention in Darfur would have hidden unsavory   
> motives. In addition, I can't help venturing the opinion that Amnesty  
> has been anything but "evenhanded" in its mutual condemnation of what  
> has transpired in Lebanon and in Gaza/West Bank. It has bent over  
> backwards to say that both sides are (equally) guilty. --mkb
> 
> 
> On Dec 6, 2006, at 2:41 PM, Scott Edwards wrote:
> 
> >*sigh*
> >
> >If I had attributed the quote to Mickey Mouse, would there be any  
> >actual substantive responses related to Darfur?
> >
> >Also, since we were (for some confused reason) talking about Darfur  
> >and Gaza the Wiesel quote (incuding the obvious disconnect with  
> >occupied-territory policy) was intentional.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
> >>To: Scott Edwards <scottisimo at hotmail.com>
> >>CC: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> >>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] RE: Darfur (and Gaza)
> >>Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 14:32:32 -0600
> >>
> >>Quoting that sanctimonious fraud Elie Wiesel is an indication of  
> >>the moral and political ambiguity of the "save Darfur" movement.   
> >>Entirely a propagandist for Israel, Wiesel holds the view that one  
> >>should be silent about atrocities carried out by Israel.  Or even  
> >>by states allied to Israel: fifteen years ago he tried to convince  
> >>holocaust scholars not to attend a genocide conference because it  
> >>was going to deal with the Armenian genocide, and the Israeli  
> >>authorities wanted to cancel the conference because it might harm  
> >>their relations with Turkey. (The effective Turkey-Israel alliance  
> >>remains the basis of US control of Middle East energy resources.)  
> >>--CGE
> >>
> >>Scott Edwards wrote:
> >>>Killing civilians is not an indication of a "political conflict".  
> >>>Widespread sexual violence is not a by-product of civil war. And  
> >>>the injustice in Gaza is no excuse for an injustice in Darfur. I  
> >>>challenge anyone to spend three years trying to address  
> >>>widespread rape, murder, poverty, and disease with little success  
> >>>and "feel good" about it.
> >>>
> >>>The UN is old news. No one even close to *remotely* familiar with  
> >>>the situation in Darfur has had any non-rhetorical hope for a UN  
> >>>peacekeeping operation for about a month and some change. The  
> >>>government of Khartoum, responsible for millions of deaths since  
> >>>the mid-80s, has heroically stood up to the international  
> >>>community, and the international community has heroically backed  
> >>>down.
> >>>
> >>>"Sometimes, we must interfere. When human lives are endangered,  
> >>>when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and  
> >>>sensitivities become irrelevant. Wherever men and women are  
> >>>persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views,  
> >>>that place must--at that moment--become the center of the  
> >>>universe." --Elie Wiesel
> >>>
> >>>-scott
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Message: 3
> >>>>Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 00:43:05 -0600
> >>>>From: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> >>>>Subject: [Peace-discuss] Darfur (and Gaza)
> >>>>
> >>>>"Military intervention won?t stop the killing. Those who are  
> >>>>clamouring
> >>>>for troops to fight their way into Darfur are suffering from a  
> >>>>salvation
> >>>>delusion. It?s a simple reality that UN troops can?t stop an  
> >>>>ongoing
> >>>>war, and their record at protecting civilians is far from perfect.
> >>>>Moreover, the idea of Bush and Blair acting as global moral  
> >>>>arbiters
> >>>>doesn?t travel well. The crisis in Darfur is political. It?s a  
> >>>>civil
> >>>>war, and like all wars it needs a political settlement..."
> >>>>
> >>>>Full article at
> >>>>http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n23/waal01_.html
> >>>>
> >>>>"Since March 1 the New York Times has run seventy news stories  
> >>>>on Darfur
> >>>>(including sixteen pieces from wire services), fifteen  
> >>>>editorials and
> >>>>twenty-one signed columns, all but one by Nicholas Kristof.  
> >>>>Darfur is
> >>>>primarily a 'feel good' subject for people here who want to agonize
> >>>>publicly about injustices in the world but who don't really want  
> >>>>to do
> >>>>anything about them...
> >>>>
> >>>>"Now, Gaza is an entirely different story. The American public  
> >>>>as well
> >>>>as the US government have a great deal of control over what is  
> >>>>happening
> >>>>there. And it is Israel, America's prime ally in the Middle East  
> >>>>that
> >>>>is, on a day-to-day basis, with America's full support, inflicting
> >>>>appalling brutalities on a civilian population. To report in any  
> >>>>detail
> >>>>on what's going on in Gaza means accusing the United States of  
> >>>>active
> >>>>complicity in terrible crimes wrought by Israel, as it  
> >>>>methodically lays
> >>>>waste a society of 1.5 million Palestinians..."
> >>>>
> >>>>Full article at
> >>>>http://counterpunch.org/cockburn12042006.html
> >>>>
> >>>>    ###
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
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> >>>>Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>End of Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 35, Issue 9
> >>>>********************************************
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