[Peace-discuss] Mel Gibson RIP

[Tammy Watts]

I wasn't suggesting fear of being labeled an anti-Semite is the reason behind broad governmental policies, but rather this label is thrown around by proponents of those policies (for whatever reason) to bully the rest of us into silence.  
   
  I don't need to re-hash the examples I already cited as to how this has been used to control Congress, restrict artistic license in entertainment and gag the media. It is ironic when Juan Cole (already under academic scrutiny for his position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and U.S. foreign policy) joins the verbal lynch mob against Gibson by providing a litany of instances in the last 50 years where Israel wasn't involved.  Of course Jews aren't responsible for all the wars in the world--that's ludicrous--but he shouldn't discount Israel's interests in "regime change" in Iraq, either.  After the fall of Baghdad, one of the first things out of Colin Powell's mouth was "there's another enemy of Israel gone."  
   
  The hypocrisy surrounding this issue is astounding.  Here we are as intellectuals wringing our collective hands over remarks made in a drunken rage.  The fact that Gibson was going 87 miles an hour (or thereabouts) in a 45 mph zone and that he could have killed innocent people doesn't even get a mention.  Discussing the dangers of alcohol abuse?  The fact that as one of the richest actors in Hollywood, our kids might look up to him doesn't faze anyone. 
   
  Furthermore, Ann Coulter and others conduct far more offensive and bigoted rants against Arabs and Muslims every day as part of their careers and it's lauded as free speech.  At least Coulter was finally "let go," but after how many years of poisoning minds?  
   
  Painting everyone of a particular ethnic group is wrong.  However, to think that the way Jewish organizations here in the U.S. have been rallying to Israel's defense, drowning out more progressive voices from that particular ethnic group, is not on the verge of creating a new wave of anti-Semitism is naive.  
   
  I don't take offense when I see American flags being burned throughout the Middle East.  If I am the target of an attack by Arab/Muslim extremists, neither I nor my family will blame the perpetrators--we will blame the U.S. government who created the conditions for these groups to flourish.  I will not become hyper-sensitive and become defensive of myself as an American and cry foul that I was lumped in with all the other Americans.  Replace the word "Jew" in Gibson's rant with "American Christian" and I would honestly not be offended.  I would understand perfectly where he's coming from.

  
Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Well, I ought to point out that AWARE can't take TOO
much credit for "harmony in diversity", although I'm
glad we have that image :-)

I do think it is important to talk this out, because
there are some powerful cultural blinders at work in
our society. 

For one thing, I am not aware of "government, media
and entertainment industry [being] are paralyzed by a
whisper of the 'anti-Semitic' label". If this means
that the story is reported, I'd say the problem is not
that this one is, but that other stories aren't. If
this means that Bush-Rice-etc. are aiding Israel
because they don't want to be labelled anti-Semitic
like Mel Gibson, then I'm sorry but this is nowhere
near the reason they do these things. The US
government, under Democrats and Republicans, has been
supporting Israel for decades for its own reasons
having to do with strategic interests in the region.

In some marginal way, American guilt over generations
of anti-Semitism here (including turning away Jewish
refugees fleeing the Nazis) may lead some American
people to support such a policy, but it is not the
reason for the policy. These are different things.

That said, what we also need to remember, I think, and
say, is that automatically blaming one person or a
group of people for what someone else does because
they happen to share a characteristic of birth or
religion or some other such thing is truly vile. It
is made especially so when such associations have
historically been the justification for murdering
people, as in the Holocaust, or in Palestine for the
past few decades.

The state of Israel is doing horrendous things to
civilians (and others) in Lebanon. The US government
is aiding and abetting these crimes. That's no excuse
for anti-Semitism - and I doubt it has anything to do
with any perceived rise in anti-Semitism among any
people who weren't already so inclined. Some of us
are furious, disgusted, beside ourselves with grief
and anger at what Israel is doing, but we don't blame
others not connected with that government who might be
Jewish. We do blame the supporters of those actions,
including Bush, Rice &Co. as well as any groups -
Jewish or not - who are cheerleading for this
insanity.

In fact, if this one rich actor did make these
remarks, it's despicable, but moreso in my opinion
because it is actually part of the twisted thinking
that allows Israel to do these things, part of the
very reason that some folks (besides the Bush Admin)
in the US may be supporting these horrors, and
actually part of how Hezbollah is able to justify its
own attacks on civilians (though much less successful
than Israel) to its supporters. It is not WHY they do
these things, but it certainly helps ALLOW them to do
them.

Racism and jingoism make people see one another as
members of a race or national group like limbs of a
body. It's called "collective guilt" and Israel has
used it for decades to justify its activities in Gaza
and the West Bank. (It wasn't the real reason, of
course, but it served well as cover.) 

Unfortunately it doesn't go without saying. If I
support the Israeli government or the British
government or the German government, etc. specifically
because I belong to the same ethnic group as its
leaders, that's racism propping up these vicious
governments, allowing these crimes to occur. It
prevents a kind of broader human solidarity that can
sometimes lead to change, small changes or sometimes
big changes. 

We hear that this identification with others of one's
ethnicity or religion or nationality is "human
nature", that it's "natural" or just "the way it is",
but everyone doesn't do it. In fact, in my limited
experience, a lot of people don't. Again,
unfortunately, this doesn't go without saying. Many
Jews do not support Israeli crimes, but a lot do. 
Many Middle Eastern people do not support Hezbollah,
but a lot do. Many Americans do not support Bush, but
a lot do. Many Germans did not support Hitler, but a
lot did. Racism, jingoism and the like are powerful,
but not all-powerful.

Or if I support attacking someone because they belong
to the same (or similar?) ethnic group as someone who
attacked someone in my group (like those in the US who
support the invasion of Iraq because Iraqis and
al-Qaeda are "all the same" to them, or support
Israeli attacks on Lebanon because of the same reason,
and because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"),
that's substantially the same thing.

And if Mel Gibson, or whoever else, can't tell the
difference between a government official in Israel
involved in planning the ongoing war crimes and an
ordinary person on the street who may belong (somewhat
randomly) to the same ethnic group, then he is not
only a bigotted idiot, he is the same kind of bigotted
idiot as a Jewish American who supports Israel because
it is a Jewish state, or who supports Hezbollah
because they are killing Israelis, etc.

By the way, I doubt this will be Gibson's end, but we
shall see. I don't have my crystal ball working. 
Behind on the payments, you know.

Ricky

--- Tammy Watts wrote:

> John, 
> 
> Thank you for your comments. I do feel
> discussions like this can make a difference. The
> point being not necessarily to sway someone to a
> different viewpoint but rather to come to an
> understanding of where each of us is coming from. I
> echo your sentiments; like you, I agree this is
> urgently needed in the world today.
> 
> Tammy 
> 
> "John W." wrote:
> 
> I just wanted to say that this is a fascinating
> discussion. Dialogue the way it's supposed to be -
> two highly intelligent and "aware" people with
> differing but quite valid perspectives. I wish that
> the harmony in diversity exhibited by AWARE members
> could be replicated in the larger world.
> 
> John Wason
> 
> 
> 
> At 01:58 PM 7/30/2006, Tammy Watts wrote:
> 
> Alteration, no. Polarization and moving toward a
> more extreme view, yes. Israel's ongoing actions
> are producing a whole new generation of
> "terrorists." The support Israel's campaign is
> enjoying from Jewish groups here in the U.S. is
> contributing to increasing anti-Semitism; not the
> other way around. 
> 
> The onus of peaceful dialogue should be on Jewish
> community groups and organizations. In Dayton, OH
> there was a solidarity rally for Israel with former
> IDF officers as keynote speakers. ALL the Jewish
> organizations in the area sponsored the event. Not
> one took a neutral stance or acknowledged the
> humanitarian catastrophe Israel has created. 
> 
> I don't feel protective of Gibson; however in an
> environment where our artists are attacked for being
> "insensitive" to one particular group of people, as
> an American it certainly puts me on the defensive. 
> If it's not Gibson coming under fire for The Passion
> of the Christ, it's that self-hating Spielberg being
> condemned for his portrayal of Palestinians as
> *gasp* humans with legitimate motivations behind
> their actions. Not to mention the Palestinian film
> that was nearly railroaded out of a Best Foreign
> Film Oscar nomination. 
> 
> Our House of Representatives just passed a
> resolution 410-8 that expressed solidarity with
> Israel and blamed the victims for nearly 600
> civilian deaths. For the first time in my memory,
> the AP actually reported that many Congressmen &
> women expressed concern over the language in the
> resolution, but were "afraid of being targeted by
> the Israeli lobby." 
> 
> I'm not trying to explain or justify Gibson's
> remarks; a look at our government, media and
> entertainment industry that are paralyzed by a
> whisper of the "anti-Semitic" label speaks for
> itself. 
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Naiman wrote: 
> 
> For most people most of the time, stress, even
> extreme stress, doesn't
> 
> lead to an alteration of world view. A person who
> expresses
> 
> anti-Semitic sentiments under stress is almost
> certainly a person who
> 
> already held these views, although may have
> previously been able to
> 
> exercise enough self-restraint not to publicly
> and explicitly express
> 
> them.
> 
> 
> The information about Gibson's behavior is in
> several press reports
> 
> based on the police report. Neither Gibson nor
> his spokespeople have
> 
> denied anything in the press reports.
> 
> 
> The notion that Israel's war crimes in Lebanon
> and Gaza justify or
> 
> explain or excuse anti-Semitism is dangerous. It
> is a significant
> 
> obstacle to reforming U.S. policy in the Middle
> East.
> 
> 
> I imagine that there are a lot of folks that
> admire and respect Mel
> 
> Gibson for totally unrelated reasons, and in
> retrospect my original
> 
> post was unnecessarily provocative, and I
> apologize for that.
> 
> Certainly, if folks who feel protective of Mel
> Gibson tend to downplay
> 
> his anti-Semitic statements as a result of
> feeling that he is being
> 
> picked on, that would not be a good thing.
> 
> 
> I don't mean to suggest that in the set of all
> problems in the United
> 
> States today anti-Semitism is a huge one.
> Anti-Semitism in the U.S.
> 
> today is certainly a minor phenomenon compared
> with what most Jews had
> 
> to deal with in Europe for hundreds of years, or
> even in the U.S. a
> 
> hundred years ago. But in the context of
> discussion of the Middle East
> 
> in the U.S., it's extremely harmful. It obstructs
> conversations that
> 
> urgently need to happen, and helps keep people in
> positions that they
> 
> need to come out of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/30/06, Tammy Watts wrote:
> 
> > I've always had enormous respect for Mel
> Gibson, and this incident doesn't
> 
> > change that. I think anyone remotely in touch
> with the latest newscasts out
> 
> > of Lebanon and Gaza and has a drop of humanity
> in them has gone a little
> 
> > insane by now. Provided this information is
> accurate, that is. Jewish
> 
> > "advocacy" groups have been out to get him ever
> since The Passion of the
> 
> > Christ was released. If the ADL isn't too busy
> defending today's massacre
> 
> > of children in Qana as Israeli self-defense,
> I'm sure they'll be all over
> 
> > it.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > Robert Naiman wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > I am so delighted to see this right-wing thug
> go down. Is that bad?
> 
> > The Daily Mail omits that he sexually harassed
> a female deputy, as
> 
> > reported by TMZ and the Daily News. What a
> beautiful human being.
> 
> > Definitely the sort of person who should be
> responsible for moral and
> 
> > religious instruction. I do hope the ADL and
> the Wiesenthal Center
> 
> > aren't too busy with other activities to
> concern themselves with this.
> 
> >
> 
> >
>
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=398182&in_page_id=1773
> 
> 
> >
> 
> > 29/07/06 - TV & showbiz section
> 
> >
> 
> > Mel Gibson 'in anti-Semitic rant' after drink
> drive arrest
> 
> > By SHARON CHURCHER, Mail on Sunday
> 
> >
> 
> > Mel Gibson was embroiled in furious controversy
> amid claims he
> 
> > launched an anti-Semitic rant after being
> arrested on suspicion of
> 
> > drink-driving.
> 
> >
> 
> > The 50-year-old Oscar-winner, who is from an
> ultra-conservative
> 
> > Catholic family, is alleged to have told
> sheriff's deputy James Mee:
> 
> > "F****** Jews. The Jews are responsible for all
> the wars in the
> 
> > world."
> 
> >
> 
> > It is claimed Gibson then asked: "Are you a
> Jew?'
> 
> >
> 
> > The allegations were made by an American
> website, which claimed the
> 
> > comments were included in the report into the
> incident written by Mr
> 
> > Mee, the officer who arrested Gibson.
> 
> >
> 
> > Hollywood, ultra-sensitive to any hint of
> anti-Semitism, was abuzz
> 
> > with talk of the claims, which could, if true,
> destroy Gibson's
> 
> > career.
> 
> >
> 
> > TMZ.com posted what it says are excerpts from
> Mr Mee's handwritten
> 
> > report, and the story was reported by
> newspapers including the New
> 
> > York Daily News.
> 
> >
> 
> > Police declined to confirm or deny the claims,
> which come two years
> 
> > after the actor's father launched a vicious
> attack on Jewish people,
> 
> > claiming they fabricated the Holocaust and were
> conspiring to take
> 
> > over the world. At the time Gibson was facing
> criticism that his film
> 
> > The Passion Of The Christ was anti-Semitic.
> 
> >
> 
> > Gibson's spokesman Alan Nierob told The Mail on
> Sunday: "We are
> 
> > unaware of any of the information pertaining to
> the police report. We
> 
> > will be happy to issue a statement to you once
> we have one. In the
> 
> > meantime we have no direct knowledge of any
> details."
> 
> >
> 
> > According to the widely read website, partly
> owned by Time Warner's
> 
> > AOL subsidiary and generally regarded as
> reliable, the actor also
> 
> > 'continually threatened' Mee, bragged that he
> 'owns Malibu' and would
> 
> > spend all his money 'to get even' with the
> officer.
> 
> >
> 
> > The site reproduced four pages from what it
> said was Mee's eight-page
> 
> > original police report. It said that Mee was
> ordered to rewrite it,
> 
> > omitting the alleged slurs, after his superiors
> decided it was 'too
> 
> > inflammatory'.
> 
> >
> 
> > TMZ claims he was told he could write a
> supplementary report
> 
> > containing the omitted information, which would
> not be issued to the
> 
> > media.
> 
> >
> 
> > The Daily News additionally quoted a sheriff's
> deputy saying that a
> 
> > top official 'personally' ordered them to
> withhold from the media the
> 
> > mugshot taken when Gibson was arrested.
> 
> >
> 
> > Los Angeles sheriff's department's media
> spokesman Steve Whitmore
> 
> > repeatedly refused to answer The Mail on
> Sunday's question: "Is the
> 
> > report posted on TMZ genuine?'
> 
> >
> 
> > He said: "My only statement is that the
> sheriff's department's
> 
> > investigation into the arrest of Mr Gibson on
> suspicion of driving
> 
> > under the influence will be completed and will
> contain every factual
> 
> > piece of evidence. Nothing will be sanitised.
> There was no favouritism
> 
> > shown."
> 
> >
> 
> > One Hollywood insider who knows the star said:
> "Everyone is talking
> 
> > about this. It could destroy his career. People
> were sympathetic about
> 
> > the drinking allegations until they heard
> this."
> 
> >
> 
> > Gibson's blood-alcohol level was 50 per cent
> over California's legal
> 
> > limit, TMZ reported. 
> 
> 
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