[Peace-discuss] RE:Supporting the troops? Who's responsible?

[Phil Stinard]

Hi Carl,

Thank you for your insightful comments.  I did hear Bush's comments about 
combatting Islamic extremists and was wondering how he defines "Islamic 
extremists."  I don't know whether he believes what he's saying, or whether 
he thinks he can garner support from whoever's support is needed to continue 
the war.  If you have any more insights on those questions, feel free to 
expound.

My disagreement with Soderstrom's article is that he was painting Christian 
fundamentalists as supporting a religious crusade.  Here's an example from 
the article:  "In order to justify such behavior, Americans (especially 
fundamentalist Christians) have found it increasingly necessary to
con themselves into believing that our children are, for whatever reason, 
more precious than that of our enemy’s children...."  Thinking over the five 
Christians who are closest to me and whose opinions matter deeply to me, not 
one of them supports what Bush is doing or believes that he is doing God's 
will, nor do they believe that one human life is more precious than another. 
  I'm really tired of people pigeonholing me and telling me what I believe.  
Such carelessness is probably one reason why progressive groups don't 
receive more support than they do from Christian fundamentalists.  (I'm 
defining a Christian fundamentalist as someone who believes that the Bible 
is the inspired word of God and who shares core beliefs about man's nature, 
sin, salvation, repentance, etc.  In NO WAY can that be construed as 
supporting a so-called holy war.)

Moving along, we have your comparison of US troops to Hitler's army:

>And it raises the difficult question of how we are to respond
>to those who carried out the mass murder, coerced and misled
>as they may have been.  We asked that question about the
>Germans after WWII, but the Germans surely had less freedom
>than we and our contemporaries do to find out what the
>situation is and to act upon it -- and therefore perhaps
>correspondingly less guilt.
>
>What would we say about a German in 1944 who said, "I support
>our troops"?  We must say at least as much about an American
>who says that today.  --CGE

That's certainly food for thought, but what would you suggest we do?  Is it 
possible to make a distinction and love the individual (the troops) but 
express hate for what he or she is doing (killing innocent people)?  Would 
you make that distinction, and if so, how would you go about doing it?

--Phil


>Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:48:05 -0600
>From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] RE: Supporting the troops? Who's
>	responsible?
>To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>Message-ID: <ccacf729.939430aa.81b4000 at expms1.cites.uiuc.edu>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>You're surely right, Phil, about the sources of the war,
>altho' I might quibble about a "stable oil supply": the US has
>insisted for years that it control Middle east energy
>resources principally as a way to control its major economic
>rivals, Europe and northeast Asia.
>
>But that's not what's argued publicly.  In fact, the
>administration has recently made an interesting rhetorical
>shift from "the global war on terror" to the (somewhat less
>euphonious) war against the "global extremist Islamic empire"
>[sic] (which Rumsfeld specifically compared to the American
>Cold War propaganda idea of the international Communist
>conspiracy) or the war on "radical Islam," as Bush said in
>Pakistan today. That is, they're insisting ever more on the
>religious aspect of their propaganda.
>
>Compare that with UK PM Tony Blair's proclamation this weekend
>(http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article349125.ece)
>"that God will judge whether he was right to send British
>troops to Iraq, echoing statements from his ally George Bush,"
>as the Independent/UK put it.  (I think that it's going to be
>a difficult interview for Tony.)
>
>I think it's not the case that the article is "trying to
>drum up religious hatred (or more precisely, hatred of a
>particular religion) to attack anyone and everyone who serves
>our country."  In the contrary, the author's trying to point
>out how hateful it is to "cover sin with smooth names" and
>blasphemously invoke the name of God to justify mass murder.
>
>And it raises the difficult question of how we are to respond
>to those who carried out the mass murder, coerced and misled
>as they may have been.  We asked that question about the
>Germans after WWII, but the Germans surely had less freedom
>than we and our contemporaries do to find out what the
>situation is and to act upon it -- and therefore perhaps
>correspondingly less guilt.
>
>What would we say about a German in 1944 who said, "I support
>our troops"?  We must say at least as much about an American
>who says that today.  --CGE
>
>
>---- Original message ----
> >Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:19:33 -0600
> >From: "Phil Stinard" <pstinard at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: [Peace-discuss] RE: Supporting the troops? Who's
>responsible?
> >To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> >
> >It's an interesting article, but its premise is flawed.  The
>war in Iraq is
> >not about whose "God" is right or wrong, it's about economics
>and ensuring a
> >stable oil supply.  To be sure, support for the war is being
>garnered by
> >marketing it as a holy war to people with certain religious
>views, but that
> >is a minority viewpoint.
> >
> >What's sad about the article is that the author is trying to
>drum up
> >religious hatred (or more precisely, hatred of a particular
>religion) to
> >attack anyone and everyone who serves our country.  Even
>Ricky, in another
> >post to Peace-Discuss that I'll comment on later, says that
>he has a veteran
> >friend who is troubled by this trend.
> >
> >--Phil
> >
> >
> >>Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:59:37 -0600
> >>From: "Morton K. Brussel" <brussel4 at insightbb.com>
> >>Subject: [Peace-discuss] Supporting the troops?Who's
>responsible?
> >>To: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> >>Message-ID: <ED3132A3-B280-46C0-914B-10C059559026 at insightbb.com>
> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >>
> >>
> >>   I agree with the thrust of the following article. The
>author poses
> >>some forceful questions: Are youth in Iraq responsible?
>Has the
> >>fact that they may have been swindled remove their guilt?
>Are we all
> >>just pawns of our environment and upbringing? Was Ward
>Churchill right?
> >>
> >>Of course, we all can't be put in the same basket, but are we
> >>Americans, as a people, any different from the Good Germans
>of WWII--mkb
> >>
> >>Published on Friday, March 3, 2006 by CommonDreams.org
> >>Why I Cannot Support The Troops In Iraq
> >>by Doug Soderstrom
> >>
> >
> >
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