[Peace-discuss] Re: [Peace] Fwd: Your interest in the Iraq War resolution

[Ricky Baldwin]

Hi Tammy, and everybody-

I have to do is apologize, and I will to Dennis: I did
receive his email response, it seems.  I looked thru
my email and didn't see it, but after your message,
Tammy, I went back thru and found it.  It's possible
it was delayed (it happens) but it's also possible I
just missed it.  So, please, don't hold this against
Dennis.

I have more thoughts on his response, but I'll share
those after I've sent them to Dennis.

Again, sorry for that -
Ricky

--- Tammy Watts <tammyewatts at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ricky,
>    
>   I agree--one of the first things that "jumped out
> at me" from this e-mail was his associating "Support
> Our Troops" stickers with being pro-war.  A majority
> (now) of people believe the best way to support our
> troops is of course, to bring them home and not put
> them in harm's way to begin with. I think that point
> definitely needs to be addressed.  I'm not even a
> Ward 5 resident, so I doubt he would listen to me,
> not that he would anyway.  
>    
>   I thought I saw your name in the list he sent it
> to, but come to think of it, he transposed your name
> in the e-mail address, it was sent to:
> rickybaldwin at yahoo.com.  Explains why you didn't get
> it. 
>    
>   If you think it would help to right him another
> letter or contact his office, just let me know. 
> I'll also be more than willing to sign my name onto
> any letters/petitions, etc. that AWARE may put
> before the council.   
> 
> Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   Thanks, Tammy-
> 
> OK, this is odd, especially the assumption that
> folks
> with "Support Our Troops" signs are pro-war! I know
> for a fact that we have neighbors in Ward 5 who have
> such signs who are vociferously opposed to the war,
> AND actually hate Pres. Bush.
> 
> There's more to be said, of course. I'm just glad to
> know what Dennis is thinking, since he hasn't sent
> me
> this email, even though I did write to him on this
> right away after the town meeting.
> 
> I'm not sure what to make of it overall.
> Ricky 
> 
> --- Tammy Watts wrote:
> 
> > This is Councilman Roberts' letter:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > droberts at uillinois.edu wrote:
> > Hello to everyone who has e-mailed me
> > concerning their views on the Iraq War and the
> > expected end-the-war resolution.
> > 
> > 
> > I have basically stated that I was "uncommitted"
> > as of yet concerning the Iraq War Resolution which
> > AWARE introduced in February during their Open
> > Forum. AWARE representatives wish to bring this
> > resolution to the Urbana City Council in March. I
> > thought it was only fair for me to wait and allow
> > the members on our City Council, who publicly
> > support the resolution, to take the opportunity to
> > talk about this step and to discuss their interest
> > in bringing the resolution to the City Council. As
> > you know it is fairly controversial. While many
> > individuals are actively against the war, the City
> > is not an individual, but a group of residents
> with
> > wide-ranging feelings about our presence in Iraq.
> > How does one censor the War when there are people
> in
> > town who have "Support Our Troops" signs in front
> of
> > their homes, and flags on their porches? Can the
> > City thoughtfully act on a anti-war resolution
> while
> > honoring the honest conscience of ALL of its
> > residents? 
> > 
> > 
> > A person in public office has to use "right
> > discrimination" before making sweeping statements
> on
> > what are basically moral and/ or political issues.
> > In so many words, I think you have to look at
> these
> > issues like judiciously. I believe "right
> > discrimination" can not made through our emotions,
> > even though the cause for wanting and advocating
> for
> > a change must naturally come from a deep feeling
> of
> > injustice, frustration, inspiration, or even
> anger.
> > As an individual I can be outraged, but as an
> > Alderman, and representative of the City, I
> believe
> > I am required to act with mindful intent. And this
> > is how I prefer to act as a member of City
> Council.
> > 
> > 
> > I attended David Adam's talk at the Disciples
> > meeting room in February. He is an eloquent and
> > credible spokesperson from the group of Iraq
> > Veterans who are against the war. His words as a
> > first person observer said more about the reality
> of
> > our involvement in Iraq than any activist
> hand-out.
> > 
> > 
> > I also attended the Anti-War Forum in hosted by
> > AWARE last month, and I believe I understand the
> > point of view of the Anti-War group. Durl Kruse,
> as
> > a spokesperson for AWARE, has also contacted me
> > several times, and I did reply to him that, based
> on
> > other controversial issues that were brought
> > recently to Council, I did not think it likely
> that
> > everyone on Council would choose to discuss this
> > issue.
> > 
> > 
> > To be truthful, I wanted to wait and hear from
> > some of the members on City Council who are in
> > support of this resolution and who wish to bring
> it
> > forward, because I wanted to explore the position
> > the City might take and I wanted to actually see
> the
> > proposed ordinance before voicing my opinion on
> it.
> > It was not made clear to me that the Resolution
> > passed out at the Aware meeting would be the
> actual
> > words we would be asked to ratify in Council. For,
> > if they were, there are many statements that I, as
> > an Alderman of the City, would not wish to make,
> > whereas perhaps, I, as an individual, might.
> > 
> > 
> > But as of the end of February, I had NO contact
> > either by phone or e-mail from a member supporting
> > this Resolution.
> > 
> > 
> > I think that in handling this type of important
> > legislation, we ought, in fairness, have the
> > opportunity to discuss it a little before we bring
> > it up to City Council. I think the members of
> > Council should talk about it in the more informal
> > venue of our Caucus, to see what we are doing and
> > where we are going, and to allow members to talk
> > about their reservations in handling this issue.
> > Even if there isn't a discernable agreement in
> > Caucus, we are at least allowed to relate to each
> > other our wishes and concerns. This is a very
> > democratic forum, and it allows a preliminary
> > discussion which can be used to build a working
> > consensus. The issue can still be brought to the
> > Committee of the Whole or directly to Council for
> a
> > vote, even where there is no consensus or actual
> > opposition during Caucus.
> > 
> > 
> > One reason that this would be useful is that if
> > there is a way of customizing the wording of the
> > Resolution in a way that would bring more members
> on
> > board to support it, why not first learn that this
> > is possible, and take the opportunity to hear what
> > those items are? If I state that I am uncommitted
> > to supporting the Resolution, wouldn't you want to
> > call me up and ask why?
> > 
> > 
> > To offer my own viewpoint on this, since I was
> > told that the Resolution will be brought to our
> > Committee meeting on the 13th of March, I have
> taken
> > the responsibility of contacting the members of
> City
> > Council myself. I copy my letter, so you, who have
> > taken the time to write or call me, can understand
> > my thoughts. I indulge your patience as I repeat
> my
> > letter here:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi fellow Council Members 
> > I feel it is extremely extremely odd the I am the
> > one who has to initiate this, but here goes: 
> > The AWARE group has held a public forum to
> > generate public support for a resolution they
> would
> > like the City to endorse which calls for the
> > immediate withdraw of American troops from Iraq. 
> > I actually have not personally heard from any
> > member of our City Council concerning this
> > Resolution. So effectively, there is no resolution
> > to consider. 
> > I understand there is a pretty strong feeling that
> > this is one of those issues in which this Council
> > probably ought not get involved. The Iraq War
> > Resolution is much like the Chief Issue, which I
> > brought forth and attempted to schedule to discuss
> > in Caucus a year ago. The Chief question is a
> social
> > and a human rights question, specific to our
> > community, and no other. Guidance on the Chief
> issue
> > from this City and the City's own Human Relations
> > Commission could have benefited our community by
> > offering leadership in encouraging the university
> to
> > finally and definitely seek a meaningful
> resolution,
> > hopefully based on the findings of our own Human
> > Relations Commission. 
> > But among the members of Council there was a
> > universal feeling that, as we could not directly
> > affect the outcome of that controversy, it was not
> > appropriate to bring this into City Council
> > discussion. 
> > While I disagree to a great extent with this
> > premise, I honored the informal decision of the
> > mayor and members of Council. 
> > What can we learn from this? Perhaps we need to
> > understand that in deciding one such issue, we may
> > well face others, such as resolutions on abortion
> > rights, the death penalty, or any other such
> subject
> > which comes to our attention through advocate
> > groups. 
> > I myself am not against having the City take a
> > stand where leadership and guidance is a benefit
> to
> > the residents of Urbana. I do not think we were
> > elected to our posts here to "not think." Our job
> is
> > to have the total welfare of our community in
> sight,
> > and to be able to have to the ability to talk on
> > difficult issues. We were not elected just to
> rubber
> > stamp municipal projects introduced by city staff.
> > Our position is to be leaders in this community,
> and
> > to represent this community's greatest interests,
> > even its hopes and aspirations. And it may not be
> > limited just to who should own our water system. 
> > Getting back to the Iraq War Resolution. 
> > If action concerning this Resolution IS going to
> > be introduced at Council, I believe the
> appropriate
> > place to begin is in Caucus session, not in
> > Committee. 
> > I applaud the effort of AWARE to bring this
> > significant cause to our attention. In fairness to
> > AWARE, from whose members I have recently received
> > quite a few e-mails, I suggest someone on Council
> > who definitely supports this resolution should
> > decide if we are going to do anything with it. 
> > As was the case in "adopting" the WUNA "white
> > paper report", which came to us two months ago, I
> > feel the AWARE resolution, as it was offered in
> the
> > handout at the recent public forum, has a need of
> > serious discussion and possible revision if it is
> to
> > be used as the official mouth piece for the City
> of
> > Urbana. The revision of the WUNA white paper by
> > Alderman Smythe was a significantly responsible
> act
> > of leadership to bring into harmony the wishes of
> > the West Urbana Neighborhood community and the
> > various real reservations concerning the document
> > held by members of City Council. The final product
> > as adopted was far better for its revision, and
> was
> > ultimately stated in a way that all members of
> > Council could support. 
> > Those Council members who would like to see action
> > on the Iraq Resolution should work in a similar
> > manner to achieve consensus and ultimately, their
> > goal. 
> > I think it is only fair to this community and to
> > the advocates of this resolution, who have very
> > optimistic hopes about this cause, to get things
> > right out there on the table, if anyone hopes this
> > is going to happen. 
> > Sincerely, Dennis Roberts Ward 5 Alderman 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Having said the above, I was contacted by Charlie
> > Smythe by e-mail. I gave him my thoughts as to how
> > the Resolution might be edited to receive the
> > greater support of Council. It was interesting to
> me
> > that in a phone conversation yesterday, the the
> > Mayor voiced an almost exact concern as I had
> > outlined to Alderman Smythe. Our City has had such
> a
> > negative reputation concerning its various public
> > stands on policies, the Mayor has a sensitivity to
> > keep the City's head above water and to avoid
> laying
> > us open to cheap slandering pot-shots, when
> possible
> > (these are my words, not the Mayor's). I think,
> > considering the economic and ideological struggles
> > we seem to have with Champaign, this is a
> reasonable
> > concern. We will undoubtedly get 3 days of free
> bad
> > press via editorials and letters to the editor in
> > The News-Gazette.
> > 
> > 
> > So - how can we proceed in a way that makes us
> > look thoughtful and reasoning, and still meet the
> > objective of AWARE and other proponents of this
> > Resolution? How can we do this and honor in our
> > midst that part of our community who have sons and
> > daughters actually fighting in the war today? 
> > 
> > 
> > The AWARE sponsored Resolution has many of what
> > I'd call emotionally charged passages. When we
> have
> > statements in the preamble "whereas" sections of
> the
> > Resolution which include comments sucs as: "misled
> > its citizens", and "false and distorted evidence"
> > - these are made as value statements, and the CITY
> > should not indulge in this type of dialoguing. It
> > does not need to do this, when there are other
> > completely tangible reasons to detest this war. 
> > 
> > 
> > We have to be a little more sensitive. Remember,
> > many in the community, even in my neighborhood,
> may
> > have sons or daughters who are stationed overseas
> > and who still believe in the concept of "fighting
> > for freedom and democracy". There are many in town
> > who support the patriotic aspects of this war. We
> do
> > not have to cross swords with these groups. Let's
> > step around that altogether.
> > 
> > 
> > If we can make this Resolution very short, and
> > based on the economic devastation the a prolonged
> > war is having on this City and it's ability to
> > secure adequate federal funding to provide social
> > services, developmental funds, decent education,
> and
> > federal assistance grants for our residents, I
> would
> > easily support the Resolution.
> > 
> > 
> > In the strictest sense I would omit or rewrite
> > "Whereas-es" nos. 2., 3., 4., 5., 6., and 7. which
> > read as opinions and address issues that are out
> of
> > the bounds of the City's direct purveyance. But I
> > could see supporting and even expanding on 
> > "Whereas" no. 8. - the billions spent on the war -
> 
> > as the main reason this City must speak up and
> tell
> > the Federal administration that we are fed up. OK,
> > honestly, I'd include a humanitarian reason too,
> > such as "Whereas" no. 3.
> > 
> > 
> > I have sent my thoughts on this to Alderman
> > Smythe, and I hope he will take the initiative to
> > somewhat rewrite or condense the elements in the
> > proposed AWARE Resolution in a way that I and even
> > Alderwoman Lynne Barnes and the Mayor could
> support.
> > As a member of City Council I think it is possible
> > for the City of Urbana to take a stand against the
> > War's continuance, be thoughtful of all her
> > residents, while still act decisively as good
> > guardians of her welfare.
> > 
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > Dennis Roberts
> > Ward 5 Alderman
> > drobertscitycouncil at yahoo.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
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