[Peace-discuss] Ron Paul etc.
n.dahlheim at mchsi.com
n.dahlheim at mchsi.com
Tue Aug 21 12:18:26 CDT 2007
I probably was a little harsh in attacking Ron Paul for being a racist country bumpkin; but, I loathe the
libertarian approach to racial issues that overlook the persistent structrual inequalities linked to the
problems of race in America. Having said that, Paul looks to be the most potentially influential anti-war
candidate. I didn't mean to paint people with such a broad brush, and I am sorry for being a bit unfair to
Dr. Paul.
---------------------- Original Message: ---------------------
From: Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>
To: n.dahlheim at mchsi.com
Cc: Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Ron Paul etc.
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:25:53 +0000
> Well,
>
> I may have some "unconscious racist sentiments" given
> my rural Mississippi background, but I don't feel
> compelled to make viciously racist remarks like Paul's
> - meaning that I don't think it's that good an excuse.
>
> And I don't think voting takes *that* much energy.
> True, it's probably a waste to spend too much time
> working for a presidential candidate -- of which I
> can't see how Paul is the "best"(*) -- but there are
> of course other, more local, elections, where I think
> we can make a difference.
>
> *(Carl's argument for voting for Paul, because it
> would be the most disruptive vote to the war machine,
> makes sense even if we don't share that appraisal.
> Claiming that Paul is actually the "best" of the lot,
> I think, is a bit of a stretch.)
>
> But I think it's pretty clear that, in terms of impact
> on the war, our time is best spent agitating and
> education and organizing for withdrawal (and
> reparations).
>
> Ricky
>
>
> --- n.dahlheim at mchsi.com wrote:
>
> > Ricky,
> > Precisely because Ron Paul is not explicitly
> > anti-racist, and probably because he harbors some
> > unconscious racist sentiments given his rural Texas
> > background; I don't think he will receive my vote.
> > But,
> > he is the best of a bad, bad bunch. I have said
> > earlier, and it bears repeating; voting simply won't
> > do any
> > good since the system is basically run and operated
> > for the benefit of the owner class. The rest of us
> > are
> > drones and consumers from their perspective. So, I
> > refuse to participate in a rigged game that wastes
> > my
> > energy when it could be spent far more efficiently
> > to better ends.
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > ---------------------- Original Message:
> > ---------------------
> > From: Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>
> > To: peace discuss
> > <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Ron Paul etc.
> > Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:18:56 +0000
> >
> > > Ron Paul of course has also lost when he
> > previously
> > > ran for president.
> > >
> > > And maybe here's a good place to mention that
> > AWARE is
> > > not just *anti-war* but *anti-racist* as well, as
> > it
> > > should be. That seems to rule out Mr. Paul from
> > our
> > > perspective, regardless of his other reprehensible
> > > positions (thanks, Mort).
> > >
> > > Ricky
> > >
> > > --- n.dahlheim at mchsi.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Having said my piece about libertarianism in my
> > last
> > > > post, outside of Kucinich, Ron Paul is the only
> > > > legitimate anti-war candidate for 2008. The war
> > is
> > > > the most pressing of all political issues
> > > > confronting
> > > > our gasping Republic, and with Kucinich having
> > > > already been defeated in previous attempts to
> > run
> > > > for
> > > > President, Paul probably will corner much of the
> > > > anti-war sentiment. At the very least, he will
> > stir
> > > > up
> > > > trouble amongst the Republicans.
> > > >
> > > > But, remember, I don't think the election
> > matters
> > > > much anyway. The Youtube debates and the
> > > > American Idolization of the whole campaign
> > reveals
> > > > how shamelessly the powerbrokers in this country
> >
> > > > have transformed the political process into a
> > farce
> > > > concealing the basic truth about our society.
> > That
> > > > unsettling truth is this: the politicians and
> > the
> > > > political system operates at the behest and
> > pleasure
> > > > of
> > > > the plutocratic corporate/financier ruling
> > class.
> > > > Perhaps only a couple hundred people constitute
> > the
> > > > core of this class and formulate the policies of
> > > > this country. They own this country, and they
> > spend
> > > >
> > > > tens and hundreds of billions to lobby for what
> > they
> > > > want. They will never let a minor inconvenience
> >
> > > > like an election stand in their way of
> > maximizing
> > > > profits and social control. If I were them, I
> > > > wouldn't let
> > > > a little election obstruct my path. After all,
> > > > Stalin said that it doesn't matter if people
> > vote so
> > > > long as
> > > > I'm the one that counts them. Gore Vidal has
> > called
> > > > the Republicans and Democrats essentially two
> > > > wings of the same War Party, and that is what
> > they
> > > > are. The prestige of holding political office
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > massive ego that accompanies such positions
> > > > invariably corrupts just as Lord Acton had once
> > > > predicted. So, why are we letting ourselves
> > > > participate in their goofy charade? Will the
> > > > corporate rulers
> > > > listen to reason or are they blinded by their
> > power?
> > > > I think the choice is clear: people must say no
> > to
> > > > the political and economic system by forming
> > > > locally-based sustainable local economies. We
> > > > should, as
> > > > former Dillon Read investment banker and HUD
> > asst.
> > > > director Catherine Austin Fitts says, know our
> > > > banker and know our farmer so that we can work
> > > > together to build a beautiful world worthy of
> > the
> > > > highest of American values. Let's take control
> > of
> > > > our own future in this way. I can tell you
> > already;
> > > > I'm
> > > > not voting in this election since voting will
> > > > essentially legitimate a process that utterly
> > lacks
> > > > it. The
> > > > thefts of the last two presidential elections
> > > > undoubtedly has borne this out.
> > > > I am not confident, however, that people
> > will
> > > > embrace such a new direction. Major
> > paradigmatic
> > > > shifts will be ncessary; and I don't see the
> > > > necessary reservoir of willpower, intellect, or
> > > > discipline. We
> > > > are addled on our cheap, Chinese consumer goods
> > made
> > > > profitable by planned obsolesence. We are
> > > > drug addicts addicted to Frankenfood and other
> > > > poisonous victuals. We are hopelessly
> > impoverished
> > > > by
> > > > the omnipresent, ceaseless din of electronic
> > media
> > > > and mass advertising bombarding us with the
> > > > sublminal commands to consume without end. We
> > are
> > > > lonely and depressed without the social
> > > > networks to rely upon, and so we turn to the
> > cold
> > > > consumer lifestyle as a poor substitute for our
> > very
> > > >
> > > > real human needs. Yet, I refuse to give up all
> > > > hope; I just think we must be honest about the
> > real
> > > > hurdles we have to face. The collective mind of
> > the
> > > > American people will not grasp even the gravity
> > of
> > > > the scientific consensus surrounding global
> > warming
> > > > at this late stage in the game. Who knows where
> >
> > > > the future will lead us when these cultural
> > > > observations receive our attention.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------- Original Message:
> > > > ---------------------
> > > > From: <illyes at uiuc.edu>
> > > > To: peace-discuss at anti-war.net
> > > > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Ron Paul etc.
> > > > Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:15:55 +0000
> > > >
> > > > > I'm 63 years of age. At about age 30, I took a
> > > > close look at my basically
> > > > > Libertarian opinions, and realized that the
> > > > question of who was in charge was a
> > > > > red herring. It doesn't matter who is in
> > charge.
> > > > It does matter what is done. If
> > > > > we debate the former, we neglect the latter,
> > and
> > > > do great harm.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Peace-discuss mailing list
> > > > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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