[Peace-discuss] 9/11

[John W.]

It's fascinating to me to encounter a retired guy who thinks as you do, 
Chuck....me being a retired guy, too, who basically agrees with 
you.  :-)  I assume you haven't always thought like this.  I'd love to know 
more about your background, and what "radicalized" you.  For me it was the 
60's and the Viet Nam war, then the "Reagan Revolution", and finally seeing 
events from the 60's basically repeating themselves in recent years.  A 
serious student of history and life begins to perceive  patterns that 
endlessly repeat themselves.

We all, I think, basically recognize that the ideal "system" is some 
modified form of capitalism that is seriously regulated by government.  At 
the same time we constantly rail at government corruption and 
complicity.  The conundrum, of course, is that it's virtually impossible to 
find incorruptible public officials with integrity and vision, get them 
elected, keep them in office, and elect them in sufficient numbers so that 
they have real power.

The only thing that gives me any hope at all is that there have been 
occasional historical periods when there seems to have been a confluence of 
"enlightened" interests - FDR and his "New Deal" comes to mind, for 
example, and the Warren Court.  And there have been instances where 
technology solved seemingly intractable problems - only, however, to 
replace them with new problems.

Were it not for my belief in God, I would be utterly pessimistic.  As it 
is, I am only too ready to leave this weary world.

And yes...I think there's little question that Estabrook is a mole.  ;-)

John Wason



At 03:34 PM 2/23/2007, you wrote:

>Well, as far as what to do goes, I'm like Chomsky, and I say that 
>pejoratively, because I'm a no-solution guy too. I don't think anything 
>can really be done, I think its hopeless. I bitch, rail and protest only 
>to salve my own conscience. And I suppose to hear myself talk. Otherwise, 
>it's all meaningless.
>
>If I thought anything could be done, here are some impossible things I 
>would work to implement:
>
>Maintain a capitalistic system but with extremely tight government 
>controls. Set an upper limit on personal wealth; say around $50,000,000. 
>Break up the media conglomerates; limit the exposure of one media company 
>to say around a combined viewer/reader total of 25,000,000. Make 
>television time absolutely free for all 'significant' political 
>candidates, what a can of worms that would be. Make health care universal, 
>tightly controlled, with no insurance companies involved. Dismantle 
>Homeland Security and legalize drug use. Make all corporate profits above 
>a certain rate of return on capital, say 10%, be spent on 'social welfare 
>projects'.  Cut defense spending dramatically and allocate at least 50% of 
>the cut toward finding ways to control the amount of sunlight hitting the 
>earth (for I am convinced that global warming is past the tipping point 
>and we are doomed unless a new technology can save us - existing schemes 
>and methods are just a band-aid that will only postpone the disaster.)
>
>I'm probably missing a lot, but none of it is doable anyway.
>
>The 9/11 perpetrators have gotten away with it and need not worry as long 
>as the anti-war folks are so divided on the issue. I suspect that the 
>anti-war establishment is loaded with government moles and agents for just 
>that purpose; for the anti-war movement can be ignored, as it is by both 
>parties, as long as the 9/11 conspirators are not exposed. And if the 
>anti-war people do not expose them, nobody else will.
>
>And the really ironic thing is that their exposure would cause such a 
>constitutional crisis that we might be better off if they were never 
>exposed. Tragically funny.
>
>Did you ever consider that Chomsky might be a mole? Or how about 
>Estabrook? Now there's a conspiracy theory.
>
>Makes no difference, nothing is going to be changed. At least not the way 
>we want it. Hopeless. But it's kind of fun trying - as long as you don't hope.
>
>Aren't you sorry you asked?




>Bob Illyes <illyes at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>What, Chuck and Mark, do you propose
>we should do to make the world better
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