[Peace-discuss] US betrayed by Democrats again

[karen medina]

Chas. 'Mark' Bee
 > US out, UN (or other multinational substitute) in.

US out. Yes.

If the UN/multinational substitute were to 1) be invited by Iraq under 
their terms and leave ASAP, 2) if the US were not controlling the 
UN/multinational group at all, 3) and if a military were not part of the 
plan, then I just might convinced that it could be part of a compromise.

 > De-Americanization ASAP,

Yes.

 > then demilitarization,

Drop the "then" and I'd be happy.

 > Full return of internal security and internal resources to the
 > Iraqi people.

Full return of Iraq to the Iraqi people, yes. I'm not sure you and I 
would agree upon what "return of internal security" means. If you mean 
"return the responsibility of internal security to the Iraqi people", 
then yes. But if you mean that "security be established first and then 
we hand it over to the Iraqi people", then I would first have to say 
that the US presence is the main source of insecurity so there is no way 
the US can be a part of the establishing of security. Again, the UN is 
not much better than the US.


 > Full reconstruction on our dime.

Definitely. But not under US control of the dime.

-karen medina
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Chas. 'Mark' Bee wrote:
>  Non-myopic "star-trek-Socialist", or at least that's my term for it, 
> but one that recognizes and accepts the long road ahead.  Eventually, no 
> money, machine labor, free education and resources, etc. - but not quite 
> yet.  I'm certainly not one to prevent the only party in a position to 
> get results from helping decouple Congress from the M.I.C. in return for 
> 5 minutes of video exposure, if that's what you mean.
> 
>   I've stated my Iraq war position on the list before, to assorted 
> flavors of indifference and disrespect.  US out, UN (or other 
> multinational substitute) in.  Being a pragmatist seeking actual fixes 
> rather than an increase in my own feelygood happysap level, I count my 
> desired results pretty much strictly by number of lives to be saved on 
> the ground.
> 
>  De-Americanization ASAP, then demilitarization, no further power vacuum 
> allowed.  Full return of internal security and internal resources to the 
> Iraqi people.  Full reconstruction on our dime.