[Peace-discuss] Re: Wasson on common people

[John W.]

At 10:06 AM 7/12/2007, C. G. Estabrook wrote:

>Dear Man of the People:
>
>Hmm.  I'd be careful, were I you, of charges of "bloviation."

Should any such charges ever be levelled against me, I'll consider the 
source, with a tip of the hat to the gentleman who first taught me the 
meaning of the word.


>But I do understand why you should have such contempt for "secondary 
>sources" -- cf. "Don't confuse me with the facts".

So am I to understand, then, that all secondary sources contain "the 
facts", and that all facts are to be found in secondary sources?  You may 
want to be careful how you answer here, because you cite two secondary 
sources immediately below, blindly accepting the one and rejecting the 
other out of hand.


>Here's a recent fact for you: in the latest USA Today/Gallup Poll, people 
>were asked, "From what you have heard or read, do you think President Bush 
>was right to commute Libby's sentence, do you think he should have gone 
>further and granted him a full pardon, or do you think he should not have 
>intervened at all on Libby's behalf?"  The answers --
>
>     Right to commute sentence - 13%
>     Should have granted full pardon - 6%
>     Should not have intervened at all - 66%
>     No opinion - 15%
>
>As usual, the true "fringe" in our country are Bush followers and their 
>establishment media allies. Compare that fact about American public 
>opinion on the Libby matter to this, from Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC:
>
>"They're going to try to really tamp this down and appeal to the polling 
>which indicates that most people think, in fact, that [Libby] should be 
>pardoned. Scooter Libby should be pardoned."

All right.  One poll on one issue, and one anecdotal quote from one media 
personality.  What I derive from this is something I already knew: that Joe 
Sixpack feels that the rich and powerful should be subject to the same 
standards of "justice" that he himself is subject to.  No surprise there.


>Our ideological institutions, which you praise

Excuse me?  Where and when did I do that?


>(I assume you include your alma mater?),

Nope.  The only real education I received there, with the exception of two 
courses, was received off campus.


>in this case the media, have betrayed you even in your perception of your 
>fellow citizens.  But I'm sure they've done that innocently, don't you think?

Not at all.  We don't disagree, essentially, about the media.  Are you 
trying to divert me with a red herring?  I will add that the media is not 
some monolithic thing.  In fact, it's a plural noun.  My main argument, 
though, was that the workings of Joe Sixpack's mind can also be apprehended 
first-hand, through personal interaction with and study of the creature 
over a period of years.


>Given the possibility that I "can't even remotely touch [your] life 
>experience or [your] understanding of the common people," I'll take solace 
>for my inexperience and lack of understanding with Gore Vidal's remark, 
>"Thank God I wasn't born middle class."

Or lower.  Yes, you may well take solace. because money and privilege 
insulates you from many unpleasant things.  At the same time, though, it 
isolates you.


>Can we both agree with Gore?  And then are we both traitors to our class?

Well, I can't speak for you.  I was born lower middle class.  And I have 
never betrayed my class.  You could never possibly imagine the lengths to 
which I have gone in my life so as NOT to betray my class.


>At least the cartoon was good.

Thank you.  It was French.


>Regards, Carl


Regards, Carl.




>John W. wrote:
>
>  > ...
>>Here's what I know about the modern-day American version of Joe 
>>Sixpack.  (Not to be confused with his European counterpart, who is 
>>considerably better informed.  And I'm not particularly fond of the term, 
>>by the way.  "Joe Sixpack" implies excessive drinking, and not all of the 
>>proletariat drink to excess.  I just use the term as a placeholder for 
>>"Mr. and Mrs. Average America".)
>>I was raised by Mr. and Mrs. Sixpack.  I played with the children of 
>>other Sixpack families.  As an adult I worked, went to church, ate and 
>>shat with the Sixpacks of the world.  My first wife and her family were 
>>Sixpacks.  I've known them intimately for over 50 years.  You, Carl, have 
>>read a few books about them.
>>The Sixpacks can be very nice people.  They're the type who will come 
>>over and help you fix your car or push it out of a snowbank or move some 
>>furniture, usually without expectation of recompense.  They're generally 
>>non-judgmental, without delusions of grandeur.  They just want to live 
>>their version of the American Dream in peace.
>>But God help you if you interfere with or contradict the Sixpacks' 
>>understanding of the American Dream.  For the Sixpacks of the world are 
>>deficient in critical thinking skills.  They don't "do" syllogisms.
>>They lack a historical perspective or world view that allows them to 
>>truly understand what's going on in the larger world, and to predict 
>>future events from an understanding of root causes and past historical 
>>precedent.  In most cases they lack even an interest in the most basic 
>>facts of the larger world.  Thus they're followers, sheep or lemmings, 
>>belatedly jumping aboard whatever the current political bandwagon is, 
>>responding for largely emotional reasons without quite understanding 
>>why.  They are the true reactionaries.  And because they don't have a 
>>consistent, holistic and reality-based long-term historical perspective, 
>>they fall all over again for every new lie that their leaders tell 
>>them...actually the OLD lies, endlessly repackaged.  Since the Sixpacks 
>>comprise a majority of the population (and of course new little Sixpacks 
>>continue to be born and raised by their benighted elders and NOT taught 
>>"truth" except occasionally and accidentally by "the explicitly 
>>ideological institutions like universities", history repeats itself ad nauseam.
>>
>>[]
>>
>>Translation of photo caption: "Do you realize how many of those would 
>>have died for nothing if we stopped now?"
>>I will NEVER forget, during the Viet Nam war, my mother taking extreme 
>>pride in being one of the "Silent Majority", and quoting every cliche 
>>that came out of Richard Nixon's and Spiro Agnew's mouth.  "America, love 
>>it or leave it!" she shouted to her only son.  "Right or wrong, my 
>>country!!"  In later life she chose, for all eternity, the dead ideology 
>>of racism over the love of a living son.
>>I will also never forget how, in the late 60's, the blue-collar workers 
>>of America called those of us who were "hippies" with long hair and 
>>beards "faggots" and other similar epithets.  Ten years later the 
>>blue-collar workers were all sporting beards and long hair.  I'll leave 
>>it to you to spot the irony.
>>George Bush actually shares many of the characteristics of Joe Sixpack, 
>>which is why the Sixpacks of the nation have stated that he "seems like 
>>the kind of guy I'd like to have a beer with".  Dick Cheney, on the other 
>>hand, is a more complex and sophisticated character, apparently 
>>compromised morally by his desire for power.
>>Despite what you have averred, Carl, I come by my world-weariness VERY 
>>honestly.  You can't even remotely touch my life experience or my 
>>understanding of the "common people".  And you're not, frankly, 
>>interested in trying.  You'd rather bloviate.  What you will do now, if 
>>you respond at all, is ignore most of what I've said, choose one or two 
>>sentences, and expound on those from secondary sources.
>>John