[Peace-discuss] Wasson on common people

[John W.]

At 10:19 PM 7/12/2007, Robert Dunn wrote:

>it seems that both of you have such contempt for middle America. Why don't 
>both of you then go to where the elites are? The West Coast with the 
>Hollyweird airheads, and Manhattan, where the East Coast elites thrive. 
>Both Coasts love to sneer at the Middle Class and want to make sure that 
>the poor never get there. That is why they had to create a permanent and 
>dependent underclass that would be subservient to the Left in general and 
>the Democratic party in particular. Any one who breaks out of this new 
>poverty plantation has to be vilified as a class or race traitor. We on 
>the right do not see class/race/sex/sexual behavior the way the left does. 
>We are not into determinism. I know that with hardwork and faith, i can 
>get into the middle class, which is for me, a week away! As for my kids, i 
>pray that they will rise higher than i can into an even higher class.
>
>BTW, Carl, you misspelled Johns name, its Wason? See John, not all of us 
>on the Joe Six Pack right are dumb ignoramuses as you and your liberal 
>counterparts think. By the way, i do know how to locate Iraq on a map. I 
>also can discuss Heideggerian existentialism with you and why Leo Strauss 
>is right that we have progressed so far into nihilism that we either 
>progress ourselves to destruction or we return to a combination of 
>biblical religion and greek rationalism. But, that must make me a neocon, 
>right?

I don't know.  I've never read Heidegger or Strauss.  :-)  I'm also not 
sure what a "nihilist" is, exactly, in practical terms.  I don't think I 
know any, though.  Everyone I know stands for SOMETHING and believe in 
SOMETHING.

I do wish, though, that you'd disabuse yourself of the relatively useless 
terms "left" and "right", or else define them in some coherent manner that 
we can all agree on.


>Am I swimming in the murky waters of totalities and values as Heidegger 
>accused the Nazis of? they were not nihilistic enough. I think Heidegger 
>would love the postmodern American Left which has no moral compass at all.

Although I still don't know what the "American Left" is, exactly, those I 
know who might conceivably fit that description definitely have a moral 
compass.  Unfortunately it's not always 100% consistent....just like YOUR 
moral compass.


>That is the difference between Joe Six Pack and the liberal elites, one 
>believes in absolute truth, the other, radical nihilism!

Ah, now we may be getting somewhere.  What, pray, is the absolute truth 
that ALL Joe Sixpacks believe in?


>Robert
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>From:  "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>To:  "John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
>CC:  peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net, discuss at communitycourtwatch.org
>Subject:  [Peace-discuss] Wasson on common people
>Date:  Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:06:04 -0500
> >Dear Man of the People:
> >
> >Hmm.  I'd be careful, were I you, of charges of "bloviation."
> >
> >But I do understand why you should have such contempt for "secondary
> >sources" -- cf. "Don't confuse me with the facts".
> >
> >Here's a recent fact for you: in the latest USA Today/Gallup Poll,
> >people were asked, "From what you have heard or read, do you think
> >President Bush was right to commute Libby's sentence, do you think
> >he should have gone further and granted him a full pardon, or do you
> >think he should not have intervened at all on Libby's behalf?"  The
> >answers --
> >
> >     Right to commute sentence - 13%
> >     Should have granted full pardon - 6%
> >     Should not have intervened at all - 66%
> >     No opinion - 15%
> >
> >As usual, the true "fringe" in our country are Bush followers and
> >their establishment media allies. Compare that fact about American
> >public opinion on the Libby matter to this, from Andrea Mitchell on
> >MSNBC:
> >
> >"They're going to try to really tamp this down and appeal to the
> >polling which indicates that most people think, in fact, that
> >[Libby] should be pardoned. Scooter Libby should be pardoned."
> >
> >Our ideological institutions, which you praise (I assume you include
> >your alma mater?), in this case the media, have betrayed you even in
> >your perception of your fellow citizens.  But I'm sure they've done
> >that innocently, don't you think?
> >
> >Given the possibility that I "can't even remotely touch [your] life
> >experience or [your] understanding of the common people," I'll take
> >solace for my inexperience and lack of understanding with Gore
> >Vidal's remark, "Thank God I wasn't born middle class."
> >
> >Can we both agree with Gore?  And then are we both traitors to our
> >class?
> >
> >At least the cartoon was good.
> >
> >Regards, Carl
> >
> >
> >John W. wrote:
> >  > ...
> >>Here's what I know about the modern-day American version of Joe
> >>Sixpack.  (Not to be confused with his European counterpart, who is
> >>considerably better informed.  And I'm not particularly fond of the
> >>term, by the way.  "Joe Sixpack" implies excessive drinking, and
> >>not all of the proletariat drink to excess.  I just use the term as
> >>a placeholder for "Mr. and Mrs. Average America".)
> >>
> >>I was raised by Mr. and Mrs. Sixpack.  I played with the children
> >>of other Sixpack families.  As an adult I worked, went to church,
> >>ate and shat with the Sixpacks of the world.  My first wife and her
> >>family were Sixpacks.  I've known them intimately for over 50
> >>years.  You, Carl, have read a few books about them.
> >>
> >>The Sixpacks can be very nice people.  They're the type who will
> >>come over and help you fix your car or push it out of a snowbank or
> >>move some furniture, usually without expectation of recompense.
> >>They're generally non-judgmental, without delusions of grandeur.
> >>They just want to live their version of the American Dream in
> >>peace.
> >>
> >>But God help you if you interfere with or contradict the Sixpacks'
> >>understanding of the American Dream.  For the Sixpacks of the world
> >>are deficient in critical thinking skills.  They don't "do"
> >>syllogisms.  They lack a historical perspective or world view that
> >>allows them to truly understand what's going on in the larger
> >>world, and to predict future events from an understanding of root
> >>causes and past historical precedent.  In most cases they lack even
> >>an interest in the most basic facts of the larger world.  Thus
> >>they're followers, sheep or lemmings, belatedly jumping aboard
> >>whatever the current political bandwagon is, responding for largely
> >>emotional reasons without quite understanding why.  They are the
> >>true reactionaries.  And because they don't have a consistent,
> >>holistic and reality-based long-term historical perspective, they
> >>fall all over again for every new lie that their leaders tell
> >>them...actually the OLD lies, endlessly repackaged.  Since the
> >>Sixpacks comprise a majority of the population (and of course new
> >>little Sixpacks continue to be born and raised by their benighted
> >>elders and NOT taught "truth" except occasionally and accidentally
> >>by "the explicitly ideological institutions like universities",
> >>history repeats itself ad nauseam.
> >>
> >>
> >>[]
> >>
> >>
> >>Translation of photo caption: "Do you realize how many of those
> >>would have died for nothing if we stopped now?"
> >>
> >>I will NEVER forget, during the Viet Nam war, my mother taking
> >>extreme pride in being one of the "Silent Majority", and quoting
> >>every cliche that came out of Richard Nixon's and Spiro Agnew's
> >>mouth.  "America, love it or leave it!" she shouted to her only
> >>son.  "Right or wrong, my country!!"  In later life she chose, for
> >>all eternity, the dead ideology of racism over the love of a living
> >>son.
> >>
> >>I will also never forget how, in the late 60's, the blue-collar
> >>workers of America called those of us who were "hippies" with long
> >>hair and beards "faggots" and other similar epithets.  Ten years
> >>later the blue-collar workers were all sporting beards and long
> >>hair.  I'll leave it to you to spot the irony.
> >>
> >>George Bush actually shares many of the characteristics of Joe
> >>Sixpack, which is why the Sixpacks of the nation have stated that
> >>he "seems like the kind of guy I'd like to have a beer with".  Dick
> >>Cheney, on the other hand, is a more complex and sophisticated
> >>character, apparently compromised morally by his desire for power.
> >>
> >>Despite what you have averred, Carl, I come by my world-weariness
> >>VERY honestly.  You can't even remotely touch my life experience or
> >>my understanding of the "common people".  And you're not, frankly,
> >>interested in trying.  You'd rather bloviate.  What you will do
> >>now, if you respond at all, is ignore most of what I've said,
> >>choose one or two sentences, and expound on those from secondary
> >>sources.
> >>
> >>John
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