p.s. Re: [Peace-discuss] Re: Urbana City Council meeting last night
-- what's in a name?
Ricky Baldwin
baldwinricky at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 16 16:34:09 CDT 2008
By the way, I meant to add ...
I have also seen one or two of the videos in question. The ones I saw really were
shockingly racist (and I've been chased by the Klan) - even without David Duke in the
ones I saw. And I was afraid someone would propose limits on UPTV as a result. If I
didn't know Mr. Brumleve somewhat, I'd suspect that might have even been part of the
plan. These things are just that crude. I wouldn't support suing him for it (altho
perhaps paradoxically I also don't think I'd support legal blocks to such a suit) - not
only on grounds of compassion, for a truly disturbed and needy individual, but also,
you know, on pretty basic free speech grounds.
If you haven't seen these disgusting things, just so you know, even if you have your
doubts about so-called 'hate speech', these are not THREATENING speech, at least not
what I saw. They're lies, of course, and they're racially prejudiced and as such
stupid. Since when is it illegal to be stupid?
I have also seen rabid Zionist propaganda on UPTV, as well as innumerable excellent
programs featuring well reasoned argument, and all kinds of other stuff. No, I don't
watch it all the time. But it's a resource worth defending, especially in this day and
age of corporate-government media.
I have to say, in closing, I find it a bit hard to take Carl's defence of free speech
totally seriously, given his one-time threat to sue the 'Public i' for having the
unmittigated gall to EDIT one such as himself (the nerve!). Otherwise I agree with
what he has said so far here, as I do about 95 percent of the time. I agree with David
Green, too, mostly, as I usually do, except that I'm not sure that condemnation of
these Brumleve videos is related to any Zionist plot. Who knows? It may be. But even
if it's some of the same folks, well, a stopped clock is right twice a day, no?
Anyway, I'm glad that we can at least discuss these things without being sued. Or
having our server shut down for allowing us to say these things, etc.
Ricky
--- Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I know him. He is a neighbor of mine, and I have talked with him in his home (a very
> painful hour and a half or so, of the kind we generally reserve for persons of Mr
> Brumleve's age and mental state - I say this without an ounce of meanness, but out of
> real compassion for someone who is very confused and frustrated and suffering from
> obvious mental 'issues': the News-Gazette's disgenuous editorial about him made him
> sound about 300 percent more coherent than he is). He has been to AWARE meetings as
> well, way back.
>
> Ricky
> --- David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > His name is Brumleve, and he is the one submitting these shows. I don't know
> anything
> > about him personally, and I have not seen the shows. They do sound objectionable,
> > although my view is that they present no danger to anyone. There is plenty of
> > nonsense to go around, much of it having much more dire consequences.
> >
> > David Green
> >
> > Karen Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Pardon my butting in, but is this discussion about a Mr. Dunleve or a
> > Mr. Brumleve?
> >
> > In case there is a mix-up, I think that it might be appropriate to
> > get a name straight before you start flinging condemnation,
> > name-calling, and threatening lawsuit.
> >
> > I happen to know a Mr. Brumleve, and he seems anything but "a
> > crackpot" worthy of a "lawsuit." And he probably wouldn't look very
> > kindly on this discussion with his name being used if it's been
> > improperly interjected.
> >
> > Could someone please clarify this for me? Thanks.
> >
> > Karen Capel
> >
> > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> >
> > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:29:52 -0700
> > From: davegreen84 at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Urbana City Council meeting last night
> > To: peace-discuss at anti-war.net
> >
> > How ridiculous. Brumleve is a crackpot, of course. But suffice it
> > to say that if there was a show that told the awful truth about the
> > ethnic cleansing of Palestine, from 1948 to the current day, then the
> > same folks would be labeling that "hate speech" too.
> >
> > What really is sad is that because of their hyper-sensitivity and
> > complete lack of perspective, the local Zionist self-pity partyers
> > put everyone else through an evening that sounds like having to go to
> > three Bar Mitzvahs. Now you know what we have to deal with.
> >
> > DG
> >
> >
> > Karen Medina wrote:
> > The Urbana City Council met Monday night. The meeting was about
> > UPTV and Mr. Dunleve's hate speech dvds from David Duke. The meeting
> > went on for 4-1/2 hours (7pm-11:33pm).
> >
> > UPTV was #8 on the agenda, so people stood through the long
> > presentation about the plan for the Boneyard. They stood through a
> > public arts report and proposal. They stood through the combining of
> > the conflicting revisions of the arts proposal. And literally dozens
> > of people spoke on the hate speech vs. free speech issue (they were
> > given 5 minutes apiece). The other points made were: hate speech
> > leads to violence possibly of some unstable person who watches and
> > then decides that the Jews are to blame for everything, that
> > vandolism and grafiti have already been a problem for years, that
> > Dunleve did not have copyright permission for a long time and that he
> > had removed the titles and credits on the shows so that nobody could
> > tell where he was getting the stuff for a long time, that the city
> > could be sued, that tax money should not go toward this, and how
> > horrible it was to know that someone out there wanted to kill them.
> >
> > Around 10:45, the Council paused the UPTV discussion and rushed
> > through the remaining 7 items on the agenda. Then returned to the
> > UPTV discussion again, giving the last 6 people who wanted to talk
> > about 2 minutes apiece. Durl Kruse was the next to last to speak. He
> > mentioned that no tax money is involved, that it comes from the cable
> > agreement. He also mentioned that the issue was not really hate
> > speech vs. free speech, but I forget what he did say it was (forgive
> > me). Durl did well to show compassion and understanding to entire community.
> >
> > The public discussion was not acted on, but will pick up again in 2
> > weeks. The council members were all too tired. The lawyer for the
> > city was asked to look in to a few issues and prepare a report. I
> > think it was Charlie Smythe who asked "Could a group of people sue
> > Mr. Dunleve". The lawyer said "I can give you a quick answer right
> > now." But they decided that it would be best to wait on that issue as well.
> >
> > The media was there. Channel 15's camera left around the time the
> > open topics finished. The News-Gazette and WILL stayed throughout.
> > And a few TV people stayed, but I don't think there was a camera with
> > them (there might have been).
> >
> > It had been grueling. The Urbana City Council Chambers were packed.
> > Standing room only at the beginning, then large pockets of people
> > stood in the hallway for a long time. Dwindling over the extended
> > time, there were finally enough seats for anyone who wanted one.
> >
> > After the meeting was adjourned, on the way out the door, one man
> > told Durl that since the City Council Chambers were used for some of
> > the filming of UPTV content, that tax money was involved. A parking
> > lot discussion with Durl and some of the community involved may have
> > led to some other ideas.
> >
> > -karen medina
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.>
> _______________________________________________
> > Peace-discuss mailing list
> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
More information about the Peace-discuss
mailing list