p.s. Re: [Peace-discuss] Re: Urbana City Council meeting last night -- what's in a name?

Wed Apr 16 20:52:23 CDT 2008

Robert, I believe there already are programs from across the political spectrum.  At
least I've seen quite a variety.

Ricky
--- Robert Dunn <prorobert8 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Actually, I was at talking with a Jewish student who is a journalism student, and is
> part of Hillel. He is very pro-Israel as well, saying that people are barking up the
> wrong tree. It is ComCast, not the Urbana City Council that we should be pressuring. 
> What I propose is that UPTV be more diverse. Lets bring on local shows from all sides
> of the political spectrum, including the minority viewpoint in Urbana, the Right. I
> am being trained in how to use the production studio and i think it would be a great
> idea  to have a weekly local debate show which had your typical left vs. right
> debate. As long as its civil, educational, and entertaining. What do people in AWARE
> think about that? This student as well, speaking as a Zionist admitted his own
> frustration with groups like the ADL are more about paranoia than combating
> anti-Semitism. I as someone who is a Zionist do agree that some Jewish leaders are
> using the fear of anti-Semitism in order to promote themselves. But then, every
> minority group has opportunist spokesmen who are about just the attention and media
> exposure, (Jesse Jackson)
> > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:34:09 -0700> From: baldwinricky at yahoo.com> Subject: p.s.
> Re: [Peace-discuss] Re: Urbana City Council meeting last night -- what's in a name?>
> To: peace-discuss at anti-war.net> > By the way, I meant to add ...> > I have also seen
> one or two of the videos in question. The ones I saw really were> shockingly racist
> (and I've been chased by the Klan) - even without David Duke in the> ones I saw. And
> I was afraid someone would propose limits on UPTV as a result. If I> didn't know Mr.
> Brumleve somewhat, I'd suspect that might have even been part of the> plan. These
> things are just that crude. I wouldn't support suing him for it (altho> perhaps
> paradoxically I also don't think I'd support legal blocks to such a suit) - not> only
> on grounds of compassion, for a truly disturbed and needy individual, but also,> you
> know, on pretty basic free speech grounds.> > If you haven't seen these disgusting
> things, just so you know, even if you have your> doubts about so-called 'hate
> speech', these are not THREATENING speech, at least not> what I saw. They're lies, of
> course, and they're racially prejudiced and as such> stupid. Since when is it illegal
> to be stupid?> > I have also seen rabid Zionist propaganda on UPTV, as well as
> innumerable excellent> programs featuring well reasoned argument, and all kinds of
> other stuff. No, I don't> watch it all the time. But it's a resource worth defending,
> especially in this day and> age of corporate-government media.> > I have to say, in
> closing, I find it a bit hard to take Carl's defence of free speech> totally
> seriously, given his one-time threat to sue the 'Public i' for having the>
> unmittigated gall to EDIT one such as himself (the nerve!). Otherwise I agree with>
> what he has said so far here, as I do about 95 percent of the time. I agree with
> David> Green, too, mostly, as I usually do, except that I'm not sure that
> condemnation of> these Brumleve videos is related to any Zionist plot. Who knows? It
> may be. But even> if it's some of the same folks, well, a stopped clock is right
> twice a day, no?> > Anyway, I'm glad that we can at least discuss these things
> without being sued. Or> having our server shut down for allowing us to say these
> things, etc.> > Ricky > > > > > --- Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com> wrote:> >
> > I know him. He is a neighbor of mine, and I have talked with him in his home (a
> very> > painful hour and a half or so, of the kind we generally reserve for persons
> of Mr> > Brumleve's age and mental state - I say this without an ounce of meanness,
> but out of> > real compassion for someone who is very confused and frustrated and
> suffering from> > obvious mental 'issues': the News-Gazette's disgenuous editorial
> about him made him> > sound about 300 percent more coherent than he is). He has been
> to AWARE meetings as> > well, way back.> > > > Ricky> > --- David Green
> <davegreen84 at yahoo.com> wrote:> > > > > His name is Brumleve, and he is the one
> submitting these shows. I don't know> > anything> > > about him personally, and I
> have not seen the shows. They do sound objectionable,> > > although my view is that
> they present no danger to anyone. There is plenty of> > > nonsense to go around, much
> of it having much more dire consequences. > > > > > > David Green> > > > > > Karen
> Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net> wrote:> > > Pardon my butting in, but is this discussion
> about a Mr. Dunleve or a > > > Mr. Brumleve?> > > > > > In case there is a mix-up, I
> think that it might be appropriate to > > > get a name straight before you start
> flinging condemnation, > > > name-calling, and threatening lawsuit.> > > > > > I
> happen to know a Mr. Brumleve, and he seems anything but "a > > > crackpot" worthy of
> a "lawsuit." And he probably wouldn't look very > > > kindly on this discussion with
> his name being used if it's been > > > improperly interjected.> > > > > > Could
> someone please clarify this for me? Thanks.> > > > > > Karen Capel> > > > > >
> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::> > > > > > Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:29:52 -0700> > >
> From: davegreen84 at yahoo.com> > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Urbana City Council
> meeting last night> > > To: peace-discuss at anti-war.net> > > > > > How ridiculous.
> Brumleve is a crackpot, of course. But suffice it > > > to say that if there was a
> show that told the awful truth about the > > > ethnic cleansing of Palestine, from
> 1948 to the current day, then the > > > same folks would be labeling that "hate
> speech" too.> > > > > > What really is sad is that because of their hyper-sensitivity
> and > > > complete lack of perspective, the local Zionist self-pity partyers > > >
> put everyone else through an evening that sounds like having to go to > > > three Bar
> Mitzvahs. Now you know what we have to deal with.> > > > > > DG> > > > > > > > >
> Karen Medina wrote:> > > The Urbana City Council met Monday night. The meeting was
> about > > > UPTV and Mr. Dunleve's hate speech dvds from David Duke. The meeting > >
> > went on for 4-1/2 hours (7pm-11:33pm).> > > > > > UPTV was #8 on the agenda, so
> people stood through the long > > > presentation about the plan for the Boneyard.
> They stood through a > > > public arts report and proposal. They stood through the
> combining of > > > the conflicting revisions of the arts proposal. And literally
> dozens > > > of people spoke on the hate speech vs. free speech issue (they were > >
> > given 5 minutes apiece). The other points made were: hate speech > > > leads to
> violence possibly of some unstable person who watches and > > > then decides that the
> Jews are to blame for everything, that > > > vandolism and grafiti have already been
> a problem for years, that > > > Dunleve did not have copyright permission for a long
> time and that he > > > had removed the titles and credits on the shows so that nobody
> could > > > tell where he was getting the stuff for a long time, that the city > > >
> could be sued, that tax money should not go toward this, and how > > > horrible it
> was to know that someone out there wanted to kill them.> > > > > > Around 10:45, the
> Council paused the UPTV discussion and rushed > > > through the remaining 7 items on
> the agenda. Then returned to the > > > UPTV discussion again, giving the last 6
> people who wanted to talk > > > about 2 minutes apiece. Durl Kruse was the next to
> last to speak. He > > > mentioned that no tax money is involved, that it comes from
> the cable > > > agreement. He also mentioned that the issue was not really hate > > >
> speech vs. free speech, but I forget what he did say it was (forgive > > > me). Durl
> did well to show compassion and understanding to entire community.> > > > > > The
> public discussion was not acted on, but will pick up again in 2 > > > weeks. The
> council members were all too tired. The lawyer for the > > > city was asked to look
> in to a few issues and prepare a report. I > > > think it was Charlie Smythe who
> asked "Could a group of people sue > > > Mr. Dunleve". The lawyer said "I can give
> you a quick answer right > > > now." But they decided that it would be best to wait
> on that issue as well.> > > > > > The media was there. Channel 15's camera left
> around the time the > > > open topics finished. The News-Gazette and WILL stayed
> throughout. > > > And a few TV people stayed, but I don't think there was a camera
> with > > > them (there might have been).> > > > > > It had been grueling. The Urbana
> City Council Chambers were packed. > > > Standing room only at the beginning, then
> large pockets of people > > > stood in the hallway for a long time. Dwindling over
> the extended > > > time, there were finally enough seats for anyone who wanted one.>
> > > > > > After the meeting was adjourned, on the way out the door, one man > > >
> told Durl that since the City Council Chambers were used for some of > > > the
> filming of UPTV content, that tax money was involved. A parking > > > lot discussion
> with Durl and some of the community involved may have > > > led to some other ideas.>
> > > > > > -karen medina> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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