[Peace-discuss] Seminar

Wed Apr 23 01:40:32 CDT 2008

Definitely on point, John. Interesting and enlightening. Thanks for posting them.
   --Jenifer

"John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:
  At 02:33 AM 4/22/2008, you wrote:

  When a cop tells me to pull over, or airport security tells me to step out of line, I usually continue on my way (guardedly) until I'm sure they really do mean me (since I've done nothing wrong). But when I'm sure they DO mean me, I stop and do as they say... and I'm sure everyone on this list does too (if for no other reason than we know refusal to comply will not mean the subject is dropped). I'm a law-abiding citizen (mostly) and I've always assumed the police have the right to stop me if they believe something's amiss... but do they really?? What DO the police have a right to tell us to do?? And to do to us as a follow-up if we ignore them?? (Chpgn and Urbana police appear to be in absolute agreement). And what (if anything) do we have a right to ignore or refuse to do?? I'd really like to know the legality of this, what's really on the books.
 --Jenifer

Here are several links that are at least somewhat on point:

http://www.public-defender10-fl.org/police.html - "Police Encounters", from the Office of the Public Defender, 10th Judicial Circuit of Florida

http://www.legal-info-legale.nb.ca/showpub.asp?id=157&langid=1 - The Law, The Police and You: Your Rights When Questioned, Detained or Arrested"

http://federalism.typepad.com/crime_federalism/fourth_amendment_searches_and_seizures/index.html - "The Fourth Amendment's 'Reasonable People'" - 5th article down on the left hand side

http://www.erowid.org/freedom/police/police_consent1.shtml - "Guidelines for Saying 'No' To Police Searches"

http://www.charityadvantage.com/CUAPB/KNYPoliceEncounters.asp  - "Know Your Rights: Police Encounters and Arrests", from the Minnesota Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild © 2003

I'm sure there are others.  I googled "when the police tell you to stop".

John Wason

  Karen Medina <kmedina at uiuc.edu> wrote:

   I am more and more convinced that everything Brian did was what I would have done if I was being followed by thugs. 

   -karen medina

   ---- Original message ----

   >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:59:50 -0700 (PDT)

   >From: Jenifer Cartwright 

   >Subject: [Peace-discuss] Seminar 

   >To: Peace-discuss List 

   >

   > Friends,

   > I attended a seminar on Thursday in which an

   > Urbana police officer gave a description of his

   > typical day at work.

   > One example included a incident in which he

   > observed a driver tap another bumper while parking

   > (no damage) and when the officer went to

   > "investigate," the driver (already out of the car)

   > took off running on foot. The officer chased,

   > tackled, maced, subdued, and cuffed the "suspect"

   > (sound familiar???) who, it then turned out, was in

   > CU in violation of parole. The officer was really

   > proud of his police work that day. Apparently

   > running away from a police officer is illegal in

   > Urbana, too.

   > Another example involved setting up a speed

   > trap at an intesection known to have frequent

   > accidents involving speeding (or so he said) at (I

   > think) Fairlawn Drive. The idea was to catch those

   > over the speed limit w/ expired licenses and no

   > insurance, plus -- if drivers are seen to bend down

   > (as if to stash or retrieve something under the

   > front seat), the officer was w/in his rights to

   > frisk the driver and then search the car. So if y're

   > stopped for speeding and drop a pen or earring,

   > don't pick it up until later... 

   > I asked about assault weapons, gun laws, that I'd

   > heard that police were in favor of that. No, he

   > said. He didn't favor that, because that just left

   > guns in the hands of the criminal element insead of

   > in the hands of law-abiding citizens.

   > Moral: if y're a law abiding citizen, carry a gun

   > (and don't bend over).

   > --Jenifer

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