[Peace-discuss] Hedges: only a candidate who calls for an immediate end to the war...

Fri Aug 1 11:47:38 CDT 2008

I'm grateful that at this moment (and continuing into November) you will be voting in Illinois.

--- On Fri, 8/1/08, Neil Parthun <lennybrucefan at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Neil Parthun <lennybrucefan at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Hedges: only a candidate who calls for an immediate end to the war...
To: jencart13 at yahoo.com
Cc: "AWARE Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 10:38 AM

Policy wise, there was little stated difference between Gore and Bush.  Both are beholden to major corporate interests that write the policies of the United States.  After 9/11, Gore would have invaded Afghanistan and it is a joke to think otherwise.  

There is indeed a time for reality.  As Tom said, it is idealistic to believe that the Democratic Party who has had two years to stop the wholesale slaughter in Iraq (with just the Congressional majority -- they've had opportunities since 2003 when they voted for the imperial war policy) will do so when they get a D in the White House.  Hell, Pelosi said impeachment was off the table for the arch-war criminals that currently inhabit Washington.  Why?!  If they are truly an opposition party that truly was opposed to the imperial war policy, then why not punish the President who started the war?  They won't even bring contempt charges against Karl Rove for not honoring a subpoena.  And I'm supposed to believe that these people will all of a sudden take a principled stand and end the war immediately?

Obama has clearly stated his policies of continued war.  Obama has stated that military operations against Iran are still on the table.  Obama has clearly stated his opposition to many policies that I find important (single payer health care, et al.)  The idea of the lesser of two evils keeps us beholden to a party that doesn't have to actually stand up for what the people left of center believe in.  They can just shake the supposed boogeyman of the the "Insert Republican Candidate X" and say that it could be worse.  No, I find a candidate who says that he is a friend of the working class and then co-opts outrage about the war, etc. to better his electoral chances is disingenuous, wrong and worse.  The "lesser of two evils" approach in Bush vs Clinton in the 1990's got us war, occupation, mass death in Yugoslavia, welfare policies that punished the poor significantly, sitting on the sidelines as a genocide of hundreds of thousands of Rwandans took
 place and more -- and this was from a Democratic President.

I base my vote off of what the candidates say.  His slogan says it all "Hope...".  I'd rather have firm commitments from a candidate before I give my vote rather than (to quote the classic song) "wishing and hoping and praying" that Obama will do the things that I find to be right -- such as ending the illegal, imperial occupations, establishing a single payer health care system, expanding social assistance programs, etc.

There is only this moment,

     Neil

 We absolutely have to refuse to attribute any kind of permanency to that which is simply because it is.
[angela v. davis, 1944-]

The point is, the only real tools we have are our eyes and our heads. Its not the act of seeing with our own eyes alone; its correctly comprehending what we see.
[warren ellis, 1968-]

On Aug 1, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:

Yeah, Nader said no difference betw Gore and Bush, and look what that got us. Okay, you and I (and Hedges) are still alive and well, but the millions of Iraqis dead or displaced, the thousands of Americans dead or disabled, those who have lost their homes, jobs, health care and other benefits beg to differ. 

Are there more similarities than we'd like between Obama and McCain, esp wrt exiting Iraq? Yes. Are there also huge differences on other key issues, esp domestic ones? Yes.

There is a time for idealism and a time for reality. That time is now. On behalf of those sharing the planet w/ you, choose reality... and continue to work for the ideal -- you'll have a better chance of getting closer to that w/ Obama.
 --Jenifer

--- On Fri, 8/1/08, Neil Parthun <lennybrucefan at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Neil Parthun <lennybrucefan at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Hedges: only a candidate who calls for an immediate end to the war...
To: kmedina at illinois.edu
Cc: "peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 2:23 AM

As the late, great Eugene V. Debs stated: "I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it than vote for something I don't and get it."

McCain is open about his imperialism in the Middle East.  People have, and rightly so, criticized McCain's imperialist linguistics/policies.  However, it is a misconception and disingenuous to state that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are "Republican wars" or "Bush's wars".

Let's not forget that Congressional Republicans and Democrats authorized the use of force, authorized the Nuremburg Tribunal violating invasion of a country that did not attack us and has continued to fund an illegal, immoral and imperialist occupation.  The Democrats seized Congressional power in 2006 with the masses' dissatisfaction with the Iraq war.  What have they done since they've seized power?  A whole lot of nothing major to end the war that they were given the power to stop.

The idea that Nader is evil is absolutely laughable and an unfair characterization.  All left of center votes are not already prescribed to the Democratic party.  As I watch a party continue to fund an illegal, imperialist war...As I watch a party sell out the 4th Amendment while accepting AT&T funding/gifts for the DNC...As I watch a party given the power to end the war yet do nothing...As I watch a party who watches flagrant high crimes and misdemeanors taking place on such an epic and open scale that it boggles the imagination and does nothing.  As I watch all of this, it is quite clear why people vote for 3rd party candidates.  They are tired of their interests being sold out after being co-opted (see the anti-war mandate of '06, for example).

If anybody wants to place the blame on so-called spoilers, blame it the Democratic party and Obama.  These candidates need to earn the votes of people.  Obama's candidacy should have a warning signal: This candidate makes wide right turns.  Obama is for a continued military presence in the Middle East despite the Rand Corporation stating that a military operation is not the optimum way to combat terrorism.  Obama is for the "White Man's Burden" style of imperialism -- the idea that we can't dare leave Afghanistan or Iraq because the Afghanis and the Iraqis sure as Hell don't know how or can't form their own government and security themselves.  I sure as Hell can't vote for that.

Obama has also stated that he would attack and bomb Pakistan if they didn't do as we said.  He's supported the apartheid regime in Israel.  He's for aggressive wars as well and seems to be for the "Bush Doctrine" of aggressive wars but in alternative forums (Afghanistan/Pakistan/Palestine, not Iraq).

But we're supposed to hold our nose and vote Obama?  The idea of lesser evilism has led to numerous problems and made the Democratic party the opportunist that capitalizes on outrage for their own electoral gain rather than fixing the problems that so many are concerned about.  It is the graveyard of social movements.

I agree with Hedges:  I can't vote for a candidate that doesn't call for an immediate end to this blatant imperialism.

There is only this moment,

     Neil

 We absolutely have to refuse to attribute any kind of permanency to that which is simply because it is.
[angela v. davis, 1944-]

The point is, the only real tools we have are our eyes and our heads. Its not the act of seeing with our own eyes alone; its correctly comprehending what we see.
[warren ellis, 1968-]_______________________________________________
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