[Peace-discuss] Pro-war propaganda

[Karen Medina]

So when Kinzer comes, shall we ask him for a debate? and with whom?
Or part of a panel?
-karen medina

---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:00:45 -0600
>From: "Morton K. Brussel" <brussel at illinois.edu>  
>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Pro-war propaganda  
>To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>Cc: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
>
>Kinzer is certainly "disappointing" in this interview.
>
>He takes the point of view that what we're doing in Afghanistan is  
>basically altruistic, only our tactics are wrong. He seems to assume  
>that we can have troops there benignly, training a new Afghan army  
>without harming anyone or eliciting antagonism.
>
>Has he not learned the lessons of Vietnam, that we were there  
>initially to train a Vietnamese army to fight the Communists better?  
>--But somehow we got entangled in their training, gunfights in the  
>field. Imagine, the Vietcong were shooting at us! Of course, we had  
>to protect ourselves, ---and bring in more troops for our training  
>didn't work well.
>
>He does not consider that we may be, and wish to stay, in Afghanistan  
>for geopolitical and natural resource reasons, i.e. for our broadly  
>defined national security. His picture of our troops as basically  
>good, if unsophisticated, guys can justify our presence there. Of  
>course, this is nonsense. Is he really so naive about our hegemonic  
>impulses?
>
>It might be good to have him visit here again to confront his  
>arguments. Yes, Kinzer has seemingly learned that military force does  
>not make friends with people, but his statement that we could remain  
>in Afghanistan as benign onlookers shakes ones confidence in his  
>powers of analysis and observation---even giving him the benefit of  
>doubt that he is sincere.
>
>As to the chaos that would ensue if we left, it is pointed out  
>endlessly that we only create chaos by our foreign arms laden presence.
>--mkb
>
>
>On Dec 16, 2008, at 10:32 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>
>> The following seems to me to be a good example of the most  
>> dangerous sort of pro-war propaganda we face.  It's not a neocon  
>> rant but a liberal expression of critical support for the war in  
>> Afghanistan.  Instead of explaining why the US should get out, it  
>> suggests how the US can more comfortably stay in -- i.e., how the  
>> US can "maintain our troop strength" in a country we invaded  
>> (primarily, it is suggested, by being more culturally sensitive --  
>> e.g., don't blow away wedding parties -- but put in terms of a  
>> condescending pop anthropology).
>>
>> There's no consideration of why the US is spending so much money  
>> and lives in Afghanistan -- it's taken for granted that we should,  
>> apparently as part of the "war on terrorism."  It elides the  
>> various excuses offered by the Bush administration for the attack  
>> on Afghanistan (get ObL, revenge for 9/11, overthrow the Taliban)  
>> and comes close to feeding the mythology that the Taliban attacked  
>> the US on 9/11/01.  And it ignores the US refusal to negotiate with  
>> the Taliban in 2001 over a trial for ObL.
>>
>> "If we leave immediately, I fear that violence would devastate that  
>> country." But the US has brought the violence that is now  
>> devastating the country. Killing Pushtun tribesmen to "stop  
>> terrorism" is as much a lie as killing Vietnamese peasants to "stop  
>> communism." (And there were plenty of liberals who offered  
>> "critical support" for that.)
>>
>> 	Afghanistan: A Way Forward
>> 	Tuesday 16 December 2008
>> 	by: Maya Schenwar, t r u t h o u t
>> 	An interview with Stephen Kinzer.
>>
>>     Last week, with President-elect Obama's blessing, Defense  
>> Secretary Robert Gates announced the beginning of a troop "surge"  
>> in Afghanistan...
>>
>> <http://www.truthout.org/121608R>
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