[Peace-discuss] Faith and fanaticism

[unionyes]

" I want to beleive, I truely want to believe " !
Peter Pan.

According to my African American Friend /  Carpenter Brother, Eric Hemphill 
, ; " Obama is playing a clever, yet dangerous game ".

Despite all that I have informed him about Obama ( going back almost a year 
and up to recently, with my bio analysis of his cabinet appointees ), my 
friend still has " hope ".

So, what is the historical parallel here..?

The election of John Kennedy and the Irish Americans " hope " .

What I am going to start saying ( though not necessarily believing ) is that 
;
" Obama wants our support, needs our support, and no matter what he may say 
publically, wants us to pressure him into doing the right thing, so that he 
can say to his coporate masters... " I have no choice, I must submit to the 
will of the people , or we will descend into chaos and civil war ".
The historical parallel to this, is the classic meeting between A. Phillip 
Randolph and FDR. Where upon listening to Randolph's pleading, FDR said, " 
Phillip, turn-out the people in the streets and compel me to do the right 
thing ( with a wink and a nod ) ".

This is what we must do, and this is ( no matter that we may know 
otherwise ) what we must SAY ! "

David Johnson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stuart Levy" <slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
Cc: "'Peace Discuss'" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Faith and fanaticism


> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 06:02:32PM -0600, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>> It's not "honest" to conclude that Obama will do what he said he will do
>> and is putting people in place to do?  That's a funny use of language at
>> best, Mort. Perhaps an indication that the cupboard is bare when it comes
>> to making liberal arguments for those prosecuting the US war. It reminds 
>> of
>> the argument that "The president knows more than you do!" that was flung 
>> in
>> desperation at critics of LBJ. I think you're stuck in an indefensible
>> position.  --CGE
>
> If we in the peace & social justice movement condemn
> pre-emptive arrest of people who might intend to commit a crime,
> or pre-emptive war against nations who might attack others,
> shouldn't we give the same regard to our politicians?
>
> Of course, we have to object to statements or presumed intentions!
> But Mort's right -- they are not the same thing as historical acts.
>
> We should be preparing to try Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz/Rumsfeld/Yoo/etc.
> for war crimes, but not so Obama, whom we STILL HAVE A CHANCE TO 
> INFLUENCE.
>
>> Brussel Morton K. wrote:
>>> He just hasn't done it yet. You must know that, so don't distort the
>>> issue---it's not honest.
>>>  I expect Obama will do what he's said, but I'm not yet absolutely
>>> certain. He could change (in greater or lesser ways.), or events could
>>> change his intended actions.
>>> No illusions about Obama (before the election--I voted for McKinney), 
>>> even
>>> worse prognostications over all  with McCain/Palin.
>>> --mkb
>>> On Dec 19, 2008, at 2:41 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>> You had no trouble believing McCain was going to do what he said he was
>>>> going to do.  Why do you have trouble believing Obama?
>>>>
>>>> Any campaign motive for lying is over. And Obama has been more 
>>>> consistent
>>>> and indeed truthful.  So (as some Brit's would say) BOb's your uncle...
>>>> --CGE
>>>>
>>>> Morton K. Brussel wrote:
>>>>> Are you not getting a little ahead of the game with your
>>>>> Clinton-Bush-Obama war crimes? BOb is not yet there. --mkb
>>>>> On Dec 19, 2008, at 12:55 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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