Fw: [Peace-discuss] Pro-war propaganda

Wed Dec 24 20:19:49 CST 2008

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
To: "Morton K. Brussel" <brussel at illinois.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Pro-war propaganda


> ABSOLUTELY !
>
> WE need to confront ALL of these hypocritical war mongering " neo-liberals 
> ".
>
> If  he refuses to debate us, we need to heckle him and SHUT HIM DOWN !
>
> IF this seems extreme, just remember all of the innocents that these think 
> tank policy wonks have MURDERED indirectly !
>
> There is such a disconnect in this country. For most people, the Iraq and 
> Afganistan wars are a " video game " at best, or an abstract theoretical 
> arguement.
>
> WAKE-UP !
>
> This death and destruction that is made possible from our tax money and 
> our silence is all too REAL for the people of Iraq and Afganistan !
>
> Lets act accordingling !
>
> David J.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Morton K. Brussel" <brussel at illinois.edu>
> To: <kmedina at illinois.edu>
> Cc: "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 7:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Pro-war propaganda
>
>
> Were he to come and speak, we could simply raise these issues from
> the audience. And we should, and ask him also if he approves of
> Obama's plan to increase the number of U.S. forces there. And more…
>
> --mkb
>
> On Dec 17, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Karen Medina wrote:
>
>> So when Kinzer comes, shall we ask him for a debate? and with whom?
>> Or part of a panel?
>> -karen medina
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:00:45 -0600
>>> From: "Morton K. Brussel" <brussel at illinois.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Pro-war propaganda
>>> To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>>> Cc: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
>>>
>>> Kinzer is certainly "disappointing" in this interview.
>>>
>>> He takes the point of view that what we're doing in Afghanistan is
>>> basically altruistic, only our tactics are wrong. He seems to assume
>>> that we can have troops there benignly, training a new Afghan army
>>> without harming anyone or eliciting antagonism.
>>>
>>> Has he not learned the lessons of Vietnam, that we were there
>>> initially to train a Vietnamese army to fight the Communists better?
>>> --But somehow we got entangled in their training, gunfights in the
>>> field. Imagine, the Vietcong were shooting at us! Of course, we had
>>> to protect ourselves, ---and bring in more troops for our training
>>> didn't work well.
>>>
>>> He does not consider that we may be, and wish to stay, in Afghanistan
>>> for geopolitical and natural resource reasons, i.e. for our broadly
>>> defined national security. His picture of our troops as basically
>>> good, if unsophisticated, guys can justify our presence there. Of
>>> course, this is nonsense. Is he really so naive about our hegemonic
>>> impulses?
>>>
>>> It might be good to have him visit here again to confront his
>>> arguments. Yes, Kinzer has seemingly learned that military force does
>>> not make friends with people, but his statement that we could remain
>>> in Afghanistan as benign onlookers shakes ones confidence in his
>>> powers of analysis and observation---even giving him the benefit of
>>> doubt that he is sincere.
>>>
>>> As to the chaos that would ensue if we left, it is pointed out
>>> endlessly that we only create chaos by our foreign arms laden  presence.
>>> --mkb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2008, at 10:32 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>
>>>> The following seems to me to be a good example of the most
>>>> dangerous sort of pro-war propaganda we face.  It's not a neocon
>>>> rant but a liberal expression of critical support for the war in
>>>> Afghanistan.  Instead of explaining why the US should get out, it
>>>> suggests how the US can more comfortably stay in -- i.e., how the
>>>> US can "maintain our troop strength" in a country we invaded
>>>> (primarily, it is suggested, by being more culturally sensitive --
>>>> e.g., don't blow away wedding parties -- but put in terms of a
>>>> condescending pop anthropology).
>>>>
>>>> There's no consideration of why the US is spending so much money
>>>> and lives in Afghanistan -- it's taken for granted that we should,
>>>> apparently as part of the "war on terrorism."  It elides the
>>>> various excuses offered by the Bush administration for the attack
>>>> on Afghanistan (get ObL, revenge for 9/11, overthrow the Taliban)
>>>> and comes close to feeding the mythology that the Taliban attacked
>>>> the US on 9/11/01.  And it ignores the US refusal to negotiate with
>>>> the Taliban in 2001 over a trial for ObL.
>>>>
>>>> "If we leave immediately, I fear that violence would devastate that
>>>> country." But the US has brought the violence that is now
>>>> devastating the country. Killing Pushtun tribesmen to "stop
>>>> terrorism" is as much a lie as killing Vietnamese peasants to "stop
>>>> communism." (And there were plenty of liberals who offered
>>>> "critical support" for that.)
>>>>
>>>> Afghanistan: A Way Forward
>>>> Tuesday 16 December 2008
>>>> by: Maya Schenwar, t r u t h o u t
>>>> An interview with Stephen Kinzer.
>>>>
>>>>     Last week, with President-elect Obama's blessing, Defense
>>>> Secretary Robert Gates announced the beginning of a troop "surge"
>>>> in Afghanistan...
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.truthout.org/121608R>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1862 - Release Date: 
> 12/23/2008 12:08 PM
>
>