[Peace-discuss] Israeli massacre in Gaza [and J Street PAC's call to end the violence and the blockade]

[Ricky Baldwin]

Carl is right of course to criticize the people who oppose the war not because it's wrong but because it's not done right.

Carl, I'm skeptical of your assertion of their undue influence, however.  Certainly a lot of people involved in the antiwar movement have unfortunately gotten excited about proposals and programs that could be described as "soft on war."  I suspect these people were oriented that way from the start, though I can't prove it.  At any rate, I'm not convinced this orientation has taken over the antiwar movement or misdirected it to the extent you seem to imply.  Maybe others need convincing, too?

 Ricky


"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn




________________________________
From: C. G. Estabrook <galliher at uiuc.edu>
To: Morton K. Brussel <brussel at illinois.edu>
Cc: peace-discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; Stuart Levy <slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:55:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Israeli massacre in Gaza [and J Street PAC's call to end the violence and the blockade]

It was not Stuart, of course, who offered the observation about violence...

Over the last couple of years we've observed a massive co-option of the antiwar movement by those who oppose the war not in principle but only tactically. ("US soldiers are doing it wrong -- but they're part of the 'unbroken line of heroism that has made our freedom and prosperity possible for over two centuries,' etc., etc.") And cf. the recent discussion here of Kinzer.

My suspicion is that J Street is in the business of doing much the same thing in re Israel, and that's why this comment is important: it not only (certainly consciously) misrepresents the responsibility of the US for what is happening, it also suggests that Israel is after acceptable goals but just doing it wrong.

Do I hear an echo?  --CGE


Morton K. Brussel wrote:
> I'm moved  to comment on this, although I'm sure that Stuart is quite capable of doing defending himself.
> 
> 1) Stuart did not say "that the violence may be "out of control" "; he said that it may get out of control. There's a difference, which Carl in his not unusual manner distorts. It is another issue whether it will get our of control. I have to agree with Carl that it could be stopped at any time if there was a will to do so by the U.S. administration---not to speak of the Israelis. But I take the sense of the statement to imply that the situation can even become worse if there is no outside intervention.
> 
> 2) What Stuart is saying, if I interpret him right, is that one ought not get hung up, under the present circumstances,  on the issue of who started firing first, as our mass media is prone  to do, since NOW it's more important that the murderous bombing be stopped immediately. (In any case, as Cindy Sheehan remarks, a country being strangled and occupied,  has good reasons to resist.) This is not to imply that the two sides are equally at fault and should be equally condemned. Clearly, there is no just equivalence between the Israeli and Palestinian actions.
> 
> Finally, I found J Street's message mealy mouthed, too solicitous of Zionist prejudices. They turned me off.
> 
> 
> On Dec 28, 2008, at 10:15 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
> 
>> Stuart Levy wrote:
>>> ... http://action.jstreet.org/t/3251/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=508&tag=gazaemail-txt 
>>> Here's their call:
>>>> ... And there is nothing to be gained from debating which injustice is
>>>> greater or came first.   What's needed now is immediate action to stop the
>>>> violence before it spirals out of control...
>> 
>> That's surely wrong.  It's obvious to the world "which injustice is greater or came first."  The attempt to equalize the crimes is disingenuous at best.
>> 
>> So is the suggestion that the violence may be "out of control": it is entirely within the control of the US and Israel.
>> 
>> And so is the suggestion in the next lines that the US is "wait[ing] ... before intervening ... as they did in the Israel-Lebanon crisis of 2006."  In both cases the US was actively "intervening" and very much in control of the continuous Israeli crimes.
>> 
>> J Street here tips its propaganda hand.  --CGE
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