[Peace-discuss] Re: [Announce] Fw: [Discuss] Fw: Fw: CLNews: Presidential Candidates and Single Payer

Fri Feb 22 23:01:50 CST 2008

In my previous message I neglected to mention that I'm also very grateful to
be alive and to be able to see my child grow up. In my case I was extremely
lucky to have been diagnosed in an early, and treatable, stage of the
disease. Now for individuals who don't have insurance the mortality rates
are higher due to delayed diagnosis.

I'm going to cut Clinton and Obama some slack. This is because I think it's
unrealistic to expect anyone running for a national office to be able to
survive without endorsements and I think you touched on that some. It may be
that the best way to make significant changes is at the grassroots level. As
long as we allow a system where lobbyists are able to influence decisions on
both domestic and foreign policy - the buying and selling of congressional
votes will continue. This is not something that can simply start with one
candidate - it has to be across the nation.

Peace, Marti

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 12:42 AM, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:

>  Absolutely !
>
> That's what I am talking about !
>
> All of what you said is precisely the point !
>
> Totaly unnecessary, and ONLY in the good olde USA !
>
> And again, ANY POLITICIAN who accepts this system, is a sell-out to the
> citizens of this country.
> Bought and paid for by the corporate special interests.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Marti Wilkinson <martiwilki at gmail.com>
> *To:* unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net>
> *Cc:* C-U Citzens for Peace and Justice<discuss at lists.communitycourtwatch.org>; Peace
> Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 22, 2008 8:11 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Announce] Fw: [Discuss] Fw: Fw: CLNews: Presidential
> Candidates and Single Payer
>
> It's important to know that quality medical care in the United States
> favors people who can best afford it. I've had really good medical insurance
> and really crappy medical insurance and I can truthfully state that the
> better care comes with better insurance.  Yet, even with what can be
> considered to be GOOD insurance a medical crisis can have a negative impact
> on ones finances. As a single parent, and cancer survivor, I can certainly
> attest to that. Even though I am blessed to be cancer free I will very
> likely spend the next several years recovering from the damage to both my
> credit and my financial well being.  That being said I still have a roof
> over my head, food in the house, and clothes on my back. I'm hoping that my
> pursuit of a graduate degree will help me financially in the long run.
>
> For me it's a much bigger picture. We need good medical care. We also need
> to pay citizens a living wage and have access to affordable housing. Yet,
> there seems to be this attitude that somehow if a person gets sick or is
> poor then it's somehow a human failing. In order for anyone to be able to
> pull themselves up by the proverbial bootstraps...one needs a pair of boots.
>
>
> Peace, Marti
>
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:05 PM, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
> > To: "Robert Stanton" <robert.l.stanton at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 8:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Discuss] Fw: [Announce] Fw: CLNews: Presidential
> > Candidates
> > and Single Payer
> >
> >
> > >I think were dealing in semantics here.
> > >
> > > Do you think people should be allowed to die because they are not able
> > to
> > > afford health care ?
> > >
> > > Or that people should lose everthing that they have worked for all of
> > > their lives ( in particular their homes ) because of a serious illness
> > or
> > > long-term care situiation ?
> > >
> > > That is what I am talking about.
> > >
> > > This does NOT happen in any industrialized ( ie. rich, developed )
> > > economy/ country in the world EXCEPT the United States.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Stanton" <robert.l.stanton at gmail.com>
> > > To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
> > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:10 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Discuss] Fw: [Announce] Fw: CLNews: Presidential
> > Candidates
> > > and Single Payer
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >> I don't disagree with you regarding the need for fully-funded,
> > without
> > >> guilt, and destigmatized universal health care.  I think that must be
> > >> said before I mention anything else.
> > >>
> > >> I'm somewhat confused as to why health care is a "basic human right."
> > >> It's not as though people are being oppressed or held back from a
> > >> naturally occurring or flowing source of health care, at least not
> > >> directly.
> > >>
> > >> If we look to our origins, what could be termed "health care" in
> > early
> > >> or "primitive" human societies was indeed universally available
> > >> (however, our ancestors had no need to think in terms of property or
> > >> rights), however it was not highly industrialized.  Care was simple,
> > >> homeopathic, and often not particularly effective.  There are many
> > >> examples of broken bones that healed poorly and infections/diseases
> > >> where root and leaf tinctures were not useful.  If a member of a
> > tribe
> > >> was banished, which was not uncommon, care was typically no longer
> > >> available to that individual.  That being said, tribal outsiders
> > could
> > >> expect to be given care freely, if it was needed.  From this, we see
> > >> that notions of health care were very much in flux and not
> > necessarily
> > >> guaranteed.  As far as I know, notions of health care have only
> > become
> > >> more restricted with the advent of civilization.
> > >>
> > >> My current thinking is that people should receive the best healthcare
> > >> (and a heavy focus on preventative health information) technological
> > >> society can offer because their health and well-being are ultimately
> > >> ruined by that same technological society.  I see it more as a matter
> > >> of justice than rights.
> > >>
> > >> If you would tell me why you think health care is a human right, I
> > >> would be pleased to listen.
> > >>
> > >> Sincerely,
> > >> Robert
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 2/22/08, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >  >>> From: unionyes
> > >>> To: Nora Whipple
> > >>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 2:01 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [Announce] Fw: CLNews: Presidential Candidates and
> > Single
> > >>> Payer
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> No,
> > >>>
> > >>> The best universal Health Care Plan would be what exists in every
> > >>> industrialized country in the world EXCEPT the U.S., and that would
> > be
> > >>> to
> > >>> expand the Medicare program for every man, woman and child. 100 %
> > >>> healthcare
> > >>> with no ;deductables, co-pays, non covered proceedures, etc. that is
> > >>> used by
> > >>> the present corporate for profit system we have now, to rip us off.
> > >>> Not to mention the 8 - 10,000 people who die every year in this
> > country
> > >>> who
> > >>> are denied health care, and the untold number who suffer needlessly,
> > >>> just so
> > >>> some rich bastards can get richer at our expense.
> > >>> Health care should not be treated as a luxury, it is a basic human
> > right
> > >>> !
> > >>> And ANY politician who supports the current barbaric, inefficient
> > for
> > >>> profit
> > >>> health care system is a sell out to the corporate special interests,
> > >>> pure
> > >>> and simple !
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1293 - Release Date:
> > >> 2/22/2008 9:21 AM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> > Announce mailing list
> > Announce at lists.communitycourtwatch.org
> >
> > http://lists.communitycourtwatch.org/listinfo.cgi/announce-communitycourtwatch.org
> >
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.9/1293 - Release Date: 2/22/2008
> 9:21 AM
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/archive/peace-discuss/attachments/20080222/495d8ea3/attachment.html