[Peace-discuss] Re: [Discuss] [Announce] Fw: CLNews: Presidential Candidates and Single Payer

Sat Feb 23 23:10:49 CST 2008

The s-o-b was honest, at any rate. But it sounds like there was a solution of some kind -- because you said "a couple of years ago" -- and I'm wondering if there was medical help for you, beyond what you mentioned, and if so, what that was.
   --Jenifer 

"John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:
  At 10:11 PM 2/22/2008, Marti Wilkinson wrote:

  It's important to know that quality medical care in the United States favors people who can best afford it. I've had really good medical insurance and really crappy medical insurance and I can truthfully state that the better care comes with better insurance.  Yet, even with what can be considered to be GOOD insurance a medical crisis can have a negative impact on ones finances. As a single parent, and cancer survivor, I can certainly attest to that. Even though I am blessed to be cancer free I will very likely spend the next several years recovering from the damage to both my credit and my financial well being.  That being said I still have a roof over my head, food in the house, and clothes on my back. I'm hoping that my pursuit of a graduate degree will help me financially in the long run.

For me it's a much bigger picture. We need good medical care. We also need to pay citizens a living wage and have access to affordable housing. Yet, there seems to be this attitude that somehow if a person gets sick or is poor then it's somehow a human failing. In order for anyone to be able to pull themselves up by the proverbial bootstraps...one needs a pair of boots. 

Peace, Marti

A couple of years ago I was having some physical symptoms.  Here in C-U I went to the Frances Nelson Health Center, as poor people without health insurance are wont to do.  While one is treated with respect at Frances Nelson, the quality of health care one receives is limited by their budget, by what they can do in-house, and by how busy they are.  They basically gave me a physical exam and a blood test, then prescribed medications.  After several months the medications didn't seem to be helping, and Frances Nelson didn't seem interested in doing anything further by way of diagnosis.  They simply weren't suggesting anything new to do, and often what one does NOT say is more important than what one DOES say.  They were content to just have me keep taking the medications that weren't helping.

Now I happen to have a friend in Chicago who's a doctor, an internist.  I went to high school with him, and we were best friends then.  We've grown somewhat apart over the years, but he's still my last best friend from high school.  So the next time I saw him, as a friend, I described my symptoms to him as best I could, and asked him, "Now how would you, as an internist, go about diagnosing my problem?  What sort of tests would you perform?"  

He looked me right straight in the eye and said, "It would depend on what kind of health insurance you had."  And that was the end of the conversation.

John Wason

  On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:05 PM, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net > wrote:

   ----- Original Message -----

   From: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net >

   To: "Robert Stanton" < robert.l.stanton at gmail.com>

   Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 8:00 PM

   Subject: Re: [Discuss] Fw: [Announce] Fw: CLNews: Presidential Candidates and Single Payer

   > I think were dealing in semantics here.

   >

   > Do you think people should be allowed to die because they are not able to

   > afford health care ?

   >

   > Or that people should lose everthing that they have worked for all of

   > their lives ( in particular their homes ) because of a serious illness or

   > long-term care situiation ?

   >

   > That is what I am talking about.

   >

   > This does NOT happen in any industrialized ( ie. rich, developed )

   > economy/ country in the world EXCEPT the United States.

   > ----- Original Message -----

   >

   > From: "Robert Stanton" < robert.l.stanton at gmail.com>

   > To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net >

   > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 5:10 PM

   > Subject: Re: [Discuss] Fw: [Announce] Fw: CLNews: Presidential Candidates and Single Payer

   >

   >> Hello,

   >>

   >> I don't disagree with you regarding the need for fully-funded, without

   >> guilt, and destigmatized universal health care.  I think that must be

   >> said before I mention anything else.

   >>

   >> I'm somewhat confused as to why health care is a "basic human right."

   >> It's not as though people are being oppressed or held back from a

   >> naturally occurring or flowing source of health care, at least not

   >> directly.

   >>

   >> If we look to our origins, what could be termed "health care" in early

   >> or "primitive" human societies was indeed universally available

   >> (however, our ancestors had no need to think in terms of property or

   >> rights), however it was not highly industrialized.  Care was simple,

   >> homeopathic, and often not particularly effective.  There are many

   >> examples of broken bones that healed poorly and infections/diseases

   >> where root and leaf tinctures were not useful.  If a member of a tribe

   >> was banished, which was not uncommon, care was typically no longer

   >> available to that individual.  That being said, tribal outsiders could

   >> expect to be given care freely, if it was needed.  From this, we see

   >> that notions of health care were very much in flux and not necessarily

   >> guaranteed.  As far as I know, notions of health care have only become

   >> more restricted with the advent of civilization.

   >>

   >> My current thinking is that people should receive the best healthcare

   >> (and a heavy focus on preventative health information) technological

   >> society can offer because their health and well-being are ultimately

   >> ruined by that same technological society.  I see it more as a matter

   >> of justice than rights.

   >>

   >> If you would tell me why you think health care is a human right, I

   >> would be pleased to listen.

   >>

   >> Sincerely,

   >> Robert

   >>

   >>

   >> On 2/22/08, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net > wrote:

   >>>

   >>>

   >>>

   >>> ----- Original Message -----

   >>> From: unionyes

   >>> To: Nora Whipple

   >>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 2:01 PM

   >>> Subject: Re: [Announce] Fw: CLNews: Presidential Candidates and Single

   >>> Payer

   >>>

   >>>

   >>> No,

   >>>

   >>> The best universal Health Care Plan would be what exists in every

   >>> industrialized country in the world EXCEPT the U.S., and that would be to

   >>> expand the Medicare program for every man, woman and child. 100% healthcare

   >>> with no deductables, co-pays, non covered procedures, etc. that is used by

   >>> the present corporate for profit system we have now, to rip us off.

   >>> Not to mention the 8 - 10,000 people who die every year in this country who

   >>> are denied health care, and the untold number who suffer needlessly, just so

   >>> some rich bastards can get richer at our expense.

   >>> Health care should not be treated as a luxury, it is a basic human right!

   >>> And ANY politician who supports the current barbaric, inefficient for profit

   >>> health care system is a sell out to the corporate special interests, pure

   >>> and simple! _______________________________________________
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