[Peace-discuss] Eight years too late...

[Jenifer Cartwright]

I can't believe I'm spending time stating the obvious, and I won't continue the discussion after this, because this seems like a mental exercise rather than a real difference of opinion, and I don't really see the point of spending more time on it. So... 
   
  Granted, Madeleine Albrecht even looks like the hawk she is (yeah, low blow, sorry), and we all know that Clinton has a lot to answer for, tho' isn't is minor compared to what has happened under Bush???  But we were talking about what the country and world would have been like under a Gore administration -- assuming he didn't die and leave things in (shiver) Lieberman's hands -- in comparison w/ the atrocities committed by Bush et al the past seven years. If you must continue to paint Gore and Clinton w/ the same brush, at least admit that we didn't have the following under Clinton, and there's no reason to believe we would have had under Gore -- I won't go into who actually "killed" more Iraqis, 
   
  Illegal, immoral, and unprovoked attack of Iraq
  Repeated lies to US and world to justify above
  Outing of Valerie Plame for revenge
  4 million Iraqi refugees
  Thousands and thousands of dead or wounded US troops, including those w/ PTSD
  Billions funding wars -- huge debt
  Abu Grahib, etc, etc and Guantanamo
  Suspension of habeas corpus
  Violation of UN Charter and Geneva Accords 
  Extrordinary Rendition (yeah, CIA has kidnapped and murdered before)
  Advanced Interrogation techniques, aka torture
  Destruction of evidence re torture (tapes)
    Domestic spying
  No penalty for rampant corruption among Republicans w/ ties to White House
  Appointment of two right-wing Supreme Court Justices (with 2-3 more or the same if Republicans get in in 2008)
  Banking crisis/home foreclosures, consumer debt
  Economy generally in the crapper
  Tax "relief" for top earners
  Cuts in SCHIP and other funding for health and social services 
  Editing of scientific papers so that govt can continue to turn a blind eye to behavior of corps 
  Vetoes and use of signing statements  when Congress actually does/tries to do something 
   
  That's just off the top of my head -- I'm sure others (and you, yrself) can add to the list
   

  Jenifer
  

"C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu> wrote:
  Lesley Stahl of CBS's 60 Minutes interviewing Clinton Secretary of State 
Albright in 1996: "We have heard that half a million children have 
died [from the US-administered sanctions on Iraq]. I mean, that's more 
children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"

Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think 
the price is worth it."

Successive UN administrators resigned, calling the US program "genocidal."

It was one of three motives put forward by Osama bin Laden for what he 
saw as the counter-attack of September 11, 2001. (The other two were 
the suppression of the Palestinians and US military investment of Saudi 
Arabia). --CGE

Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> Isolated stats don't begin to tell the whole picture, Carl. You surely 
> cannot mean that Clinton was nearly as dreadful and destructive as Bush, 
> nor that Gore would have been???
> --Jenifer
> 
> */"C. G. Estabrook" /* wrote:
> 
> The Clinton administration is probably still responsible for more
> dead Iraqis than the Bush administration -- by sanctions and air
> attacks. And they showed themselves perfectly prepared to launch an
> illegal war to ensure the neoliberal order in the "greater Middle
> East" -- the attack on Serbia that Gore (and Hillary) supported. --CGE
> 
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 23:54:48 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Jenifer Cartwright
> >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Eight years too late...
> >To: "C. G. Estabrook"
> >Cc: Peace-discuss List
> >
> > Y're saying Iraq/restructuring the middle-east was
> > in Gore's crosshairs from the git go?? If so, pls
> > include a link to enlighten me.
> > --Jenifer
> >
> > "C. G. Estabrook" wrote:
> >
> > Oh, come on. Anyone who thinks everything would
> > have been OK if only a
> > "good guy" had become president in 2000 has
> > forgotten the (first and one
> > hopes only) Clinton administration and should read
> > Alexander Cockburn
> > and Jeffrey St. Clair's book, Al Gore: A User's
> > Manual (Verso, 2000).
> > The neocons' original focus was the Clinton
> > administration, and Gore was
> > a hawk within it. --CGE
> >
> > Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> > > Isn't it too bad it took Ralph Nader eight years
> > to notice the
> > > significant difference between "the lesser of
> > two evils" and (finally)
> > > endorse a Democratic candidate (Edwards) when he
> > could have saved the
> > > world the EXTREME evil of the Bush regime by
> > endorsing Gore, or at least
> > > not running because there was "no difference"
> > between the two candidates???
> > > --Jenifer
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them
> > fast with Yahoo! Search.
> >________________
> >_______________________________________________
> >Peace-discuss mailing list
> >Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> >http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss


       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/archive/peace-discuss/attachments/20080113/76491a0c/attachment.html